Lord of the Rings Ongoing Discussion

[Niku]

Where was gondor when TLG needed to do more LOTR sets?

[heartofdavy]

Brilliant. 

[RogueTwo]

Sorry if I missed this somewhere, but if TLG gets the rights to the Amazon series, would they still be able to co-market sets from the LOTR trilogy by Peter Jackson?  Even if the visual DNA of the show intentionally sticks close to the movies, I could see a lot of issues that may not be worth the time of TLG, including Harvey Weinstein having been an executive producer of the LOTR trilogy (even though he didn't have any creative or artistic worth whatsoever, unless you count $$$).  I am a serious LOTR fan, I have to concede that at this point, the new Harry Potter theme has given me loads of new stuff to work with, and I think that theme is likely a much better seller.  

That being said, it's a shame that a single D2C Minas Tirith loaded with minifigures would have placated most fans, and such a project was accepted and rejected twice on LEGO Ideas.

[MAB]

On 11/30/2018 at 12:17 AM, RogueTwo said:

Sorry if I missed this somewhere, but if TLG gets the rights to the Amazon series, would they still be able to co-market sets from the LOTR trilogy by Peter Jackson?

 

Unlikely, unless they have a new (or the current, if it is still in place) deal with Warner Bros to use their name on the box, and their depiction of the characters.

 

[CedBricks]

On 11/30/2018 at 1:17 AM, RogueTwo said:

 

That being said, it's a shame that a single D2C Minas Tirith loaded with minifigures would have placated most fans, and such a project was accepted and rejected twice on LEGO Ideas.

Lego Ideas' rules are very clear regarding licensed themes. The fact that the wonderful Minas Tirith models you are referring to were indeed rejected does not necessarily means that Lego will never make one ;-)

[sahidko]

20 hours ago, CedBricks said:

Lego Ideas' rules are very clear regarding licensed themes. The fact that the wonderful Minas Tirith models you are referring to were indeed rejected does not necessarily means that Lego will never make one ;-)

I personally remember only one Minas Tirith (from Nuju Metru) reaching review stage and being rejected and that was long before the "no lincensed ideas sets" rule introduction.

[MAB]

^probably meant Lothlorien.

 

 

48 minutes ago, sahidko said:

I personally remember only one Minas Tirith (from Nuju Metru) reaching review stage and being rejected and that was long before the "no lincensed ideas sets" rule introduction.

That isn't a rule.

 

The rule here is no ideas from active licenses. When LOTR drops off this list:

https://legoideas.uservoice.com/knowledgebase/articles/356076-license-conflicts-and-resolutions

then ideas based on LOTR can be submitted again. Whether they get through is another matter.

 

[Beardless Dwarf]

I think LOTR making a return is rather unlikely, unfortunately. Unless the series is easily accessible (meaning not too confusing for the casual viewer) and becomes extremely popular. For example, Star Wars and Harry Potter are both very popular series and it's 'cool' to like them. I see merchandise for both of those series at just about every big retailer; not so with LOTR. 

 

What I'm getting at is that themes like Super Heroes, Star Wars, and HP are all relevant to pop culture and are going to sell better than LOTR/Hobbit which had a brief resurgence when the Hobbit films came out. But ultimately, LOTR is just not a pop culture icon and unless the TV series makes it that way, I doubt if we'll see a return of the theme, except maybe a 1 off set like POTC.

I do think, however, that a Fantasy Castle theme could do quite well, considering the popularity of Ninjago and Elves.

[Bloktopus]

I certainly hope so, since I didn't return to lego until after these lines were ended. 

[Darkslayer]

My dream is for Lego LOTR to return. It was my favorite theme ever, and there are still so many set possibilities. I think with the Amazon show on the horizon there could he some hope. Could see them making Minas Tirith one huge D2C like they did with Pirates 5.

[Killugh]

Interesting reading. The Amazon series is covering the second age. Minas Tirith wouldn't be a possible set since it wasn't constructed until the Third Age (if you follow the Tolkien canon). Gondor did exist though in the middle of the Second Age. Sauron, as well. You'd probably see some Numenorean based sets, maybe a Balrog or a dragon.

I would bank on LEGO releasing a new series of Tolkien based sets. They were popular (the Hobbit and LOTR sets. The fans of the sets typically are fans of the books and films. LEGO wouldn't miss the opportunity to sell to a market base that is at least as large as the Star Wars fan base.

[fred67]

Sorry; I know @Killugh revived a nearly year old thread, and I'm jumping on because I haven't been around for a while.  Also, it seems like we're actually getting much closer to a release date.

I recently learned a lot about Tolkien licensing.  Middle Earth Enterprises is the rights holder to all of JRR Tolkien's literary work for films, merchandising, and other rights.  Even though TLG made Tolkien sets (I'm saying it like that because it's both LOTR and the Hobbit) based on WB and Newline IP (the sets and figures were based on the movies, not on the books), TLG was required to get a merchandising license from MEE (https://www.middleearth.com/current-licensees.html).

The first thing to note, then, is that TLG can make Tolkien based sets, but not sets based on Amazon's interpretation of Tolkien's work, because then they'd be violating Amazon's IP rights (as far as we know, no agreement between TLG and Amazon).  The sets would have to be original sets based off the books, not based off the show.

But then I noticed something peculiar.  Why is Amazon Studios not listed on MEE's current licenses?  So I dug deeper and found out that Amazon Studios is working in conjunction with Harper Collins and Newline Cinema! (https://deadline.com/2019/09/amazon-film-the-lord-of-the-rings-tv-series-new-zealand-1202737536/).

Unfortunately we don't know the terms of TLG's agreement with WB (parent over Newline).  It may actually restrict them from making anything not mutually agreed on; it may restrict them from making sets outside the scope of WB's work... who knows.  Maybe Newlines's agreement with Amazon doesn't give them merchandising rights.  Unless the companies feel like sharing that information, we'll likely never know.

I will say this; I do not think LEGO LOTR/Hobbit was as successful as some people here might think.  Yes, they made money, but TLG is really good at making money, and they'd rather put resources towards the things that make them the MOST money, so "didn't lose money" and "turned a slight profit" are not really what TLG considers successful if those resources spent could have been on a theme that sold twice as many sets.

It's an interesting topic, though; I really hope we see more medieval fantasy type things from TLG, Tolkien based or not.  Remember when they made Orcs for Fantasy Era, but called them Trolls because Orcs was a Tolkien trademark?  So we had regular size trolls and big fig trolls.  Well, now they could actually call them Orcs (but probably have to pay for the right to do it).

I remember long discussions before LEGO did LOTR; I was on the side that said it was very unlikely, that I wouldn't hold my breath, but I could actually see TLG doing it and succeeding.  I'm going to say the same thing now about the Amazon series: it's possible, but I wouldn't hold my breath, and I think it's unlikely.

On 12/10/2018 at 1:57 PM, Beardless Dwarf said:

...

What I'm getting at is that themes like Super Heroes, Star Wars, and HP are all relevant to pop culture and are going to sell better than LOTR/Hobbit which had a brief resurgence when the Hobbit films came out. But ultimately, LOTR is just not a pop culture icon and unless the TV series makes it that way, I doubt if we'll see a return of the theme, except maybe a 1 off set like POTC.

...

Shared sentiments; I'm hopeful, but not holding my breath.  I want to point this out, though; LEGO LOTR was like 10 years too late.  The Hobbit films were aimed at a younger audience, and because of it we got a bunch of "play sets" that didn't appeal as much to the people who were big LOTR fans when the movies came out.  I could have done with fewer Hobbit sets, and more LOTR sets, personally, and I had to remove play features (like from Balin's Tomb) for my adult tastes.

It could possibly be more successful if they actually released sets in conjunction with the show, and geared sets towards TFOLs and AFOLs.  But again, they are looking to maximize profits, so if they can make more on other lines, they won't even think about it.

 

[wesker]

1 hour ago, fred67 said:

I will say this; I do not think LEGO LOTR/Hobbit was as successful as some people here might think.  Yes, they made money, but TLG is really good at making money, and they'd rather put resources towards the things that make them the MOST money, so "didn't lose money" and "turned a slight profit" are not really what TLG considers successful if those resources spent could have been on a theme that sold twice as many sets.

I don't think anyone is denying that at all. In fact the only time I remember the line having any success was the first LOTR wave which focused on some of the trilogy's most iconic moments.

The first two waves for the Hobbit trilogy sold horribly everywhere I was at. They were endlessly clogging the shelves and retailers had to mark them down half price or more just to get rid of them. It wasn't just Lego either. Pretty much all Hobbit merchandise was shelf warming. The trilogy just didn't resonate with audiences the same way LOTR did.

The second LOTR wave didn't do any better and I think a big part of the reason there was the questionable set choices that were either too obscure or just not interesting enough for anyone but diehard fans. By the time the third Hobbit wave came around there was only a limited production run that very few retailers were willing to stock.

[MAB]

10 hours ago, Killugh said:

I would bank on LEGO releasing a new series of Tolkien based sets. They were popular (the Hobbit and LOTR sets. The fans of the sets typically are fans of the books and films. LEGO wouldn't miss the opportunity to sell to a market base that is at least as large as the Star Wars fan base.

I don't think they were, at least compared to SW and Super Heroes. Star Wars is very different to LOTR in that kids like it, and so it overlaps with LEGO's main demographic.

6 hours ago, wesker said:

In fact the only time I remember the line having any success was the first LOTR wave which focused on some of the trilogy's most iconic moments.

True, and even that seemed to attract lots of complaints and it wasn't until AFOLs saw how bad the second wave was that the first wave was seen as a decent wave. I recall complaints about the Mines of Moria being just walls, that Weathertop was too small, that the Uruk-Hai set was just a bit of wall and the only set really praised was Helm's Deep.

[Trunkbass]

The LEGO Lord of the Rings and Hobbit games have made their way back to Steam last month after being pulled a year ago. Maybe this is a hopeful sign that they have renewed or re-acquired the license?

See link.

Edited June 17, 2020 by Trunkbass

[RogueTwo]

On 6/17/2020 at 5:31 AM, Trunkbass said:

The LEGO Lord of the Rings and Hobbit games have made their way back to Steam last month after being pulled a year ago. Maybe this is a hopeful sign that they have renewed or re-acquired the license?

See link.

I was about to post this if someone hadn’t already.  Yep, I’ll bet we get something next year for the 20th anniversary of Fellowship.  

[greenalfonzo]

On 7/3/2020 at 10:41 AM, RogueTwo said:

I was about to post this if someone hadn’t already.  Yep, I’ll bet we get something next year for the 20th anniversary of Fellowship.  

You might be right.  The Viking CMF's helm mold is a perfect copy of Eowyn's.

[MAB]

On 7/3/2020 at 6:41 PM, RogueTwo said:

I was about to post this if someone hadn’t already.  Yep, I’ll bet we get something next year for the 20th anniversary of Fellowship.  

It is also the 40th anniversary of Indiana Jones, which of course used to be a LEGO theme too.

Then outside of old themes, there are some other movies with anniversaries that would make for great parts or minifigures: 1981 - Excalibur, Clash of the Titans, An American Werewolf in London, 1991: Addams Family, Hook, Robin Hood Prince of Thieves, 2001: Tomb Raider, Planet of the Apes.

Given that LEGO doesn't celebrate big anniversaries of internal themes that well (if at all), I'm not holding out much hope for the 20th anniversary of FOTR.

 

[Fjonin]

On 7/5/2020 at 1:13 AM, greenalfonzo said:

You might be right.  The Viking CMF's helm mold is a perfect copy of Eowyn's.

Yes, noticed that myself! Buying loads of them to boost my Rohan army lol<3

[josebricks]

As much as I would love to see an LOTR comeback, my 1000-foot view of medieval franchises/films lately is that most have been darker, gritty, geared toward adults: GoT, Last Kingdom, insert-Russell-Crowe-film-here etc.  Playful, comedic-type movies like some of the old Robin Hood films made medieval an okay topic for kids, and thus castle toy themes for kids. But I’m not convinced that a historical-ish castle theme is coming back unless there is some seismic pop culture shift

[zoth33]

8 hours ago, josebricks said:

As much as I would love to see an LOTR comeback, my 1000-foot view of medieval franchises/films lately is that most have been darker, gritty, geared toward adults: GoT, Last Kingdom, insert-Russell-Crowe-film-here etc.  Playful, comedic-type movies like some of the old Robin Hood films made medieval an okay topic for kids, and thus castle toy themes for kids. But I’m not convinced that a historical-ish castle theme is coming back unless there is some seismic pop culture shift

Lego is shifting toward their adult community with their products lately.  Just because it's considered adult I don't think will automatically rule a franchise or film out.  

[josebricks]

4 minutes ago, zoth33 said:

Lego is shifting toward their adult community with their products lately.  Just because it's considered adult I don't think will automatically rule a franchise or film out.  

Fair point, I guess the architecture series and the new “18+” line have opened the door. If they wanted a whole lot of my dollars then they would #bringbacklotr. Until then I’ll keep supporting anyone who makes lotr custom figs

[zoth33]

Just now, josebricks said:

Fair point, I guess the architecture series and the new “18+” line have opened the door. If they wanted a whole lot of my dollars then they would #bringbacklotr. Until then I’ll keep supporting anyone who makes lotr custom figs

Yeah I'm not giving up hope on LOTR but  I think it's a long shot.  I'm hoping for something more fantasy/castle like in the future.  Harry Potter has some nice figs and parts but I need armies and more creatures/dragons.  I think the fact that they are doing more adult oriented sets gives me hope for LOTR,WOW, or something new.  

[josebricks]

Yeah, scavenging a useful body part or accessory off of CMF figures just isn’t cutting it

[zoth33]

4 minutes ago, josebricks said:

Yeah, scavenging a useful body part or accessory off of CMF figures just isn’t cutting it

Yeah bricks and pieces is nice if they have the parts,  it's good for figs if they have them.  Obviously i would love and army of Centaurs but it's under the licensed Harry Potter theme.  Ninjago has had some great figs the last two seasons with the fire snakes, Ice zombies and this years D&D style with the skeletons, orcs/ogres and the goblins.  The Superheroes line has had some nice figs with the Atlanteans, The Sakaaran, Green Goblin, which I've used for custom figs and the recent Viking and the Tournament Knight are great figs but Covid has really dampened my ability to army build those at the moment.  I actually have bought a lot of Harry potter sets recently to add to my variety of figs.  The new dementors have a great torso.  Buckbeak was nice but was in a 60 dollar set.  Hopefully something castle/fantasy comes out soon so we can buy the hell out of it to show lego there is still a demand for it.  The new Ninjago skeleton dragon is great though just built it 2 weeks ago very nice dragon to add to my collection.