Lord of the Rings Ongoing Discussion

[Trunkbass]

6 minutes ago, Rui Miguel said:

Thanks for the mention @Mandalorianknight ;) It was me indeed The Fellowship and The Witch-King of Angmar I was hoping LEGO would use dark brown color for Frodo's hair, especially using Tile, Round 1 x 1 Quarter :( If they did that it would be possible to bring my version to life. Balrog is my favorite from the reveals. I hope these sell well so the IP returns in full glory to the shelves :)  There's a gold mine in Lord Of The Rings franchise; ideas to be mined and crafted in LEGO products. Let's see what the future holds. 

God your versions (especially the hobbits) look 10x better than what LEGO will put out :o I really like the way you suggest that hobbits have pointy ears and the non receding hairline and correct colours are also a plus!

[Rui Miguel]

1 hour ago, Altair1 said:

Here is the custom designed version of Faramir I got, together with the Witch-King of Angmar.

Not bad those look very good. You should try to swap Angmar's cape for Part 10904 or Part 86038 either way cool Minifigures. :) 

[Altair1]

11 minutes ago, Rui Miguel said:

Not bad those look very good. You should try to swap Angmar's cape for Part 10904 or Part 86038 either way cool Minifigures. :) 

Thanks! And good point about the cape, will do that ;-)

[Rui Miguel]

19 minutes ago, Trunkbass said:

God your versions (especially the hobbits) look 10x better than what LEGO will put out :o I really like the way you suggest that hobbits have pointy ears and the non receding hairline and correct colours are also a plus!

Thanks, @Trunkbass 🙏 My first step in the design process was defining a scale/metric for the brickheadz. In my MOC, I wanted from the start to have a human, a hobbit, a pony and a fellbeast dragon; therefore it's 4 different scales. I use the harry potter set 40495 as a scale reference for the Hobbits as they do scale like children. I think the issue around the official product line has to do with this scale parameter. The Gandalf and Balrog scale well as the one with Aragorn, but Frodo head should have not been the same size as a regular Brickheadz. There will be always things we forgot or could refine in the product that at the time wasn't clear or skipped us. Maybe it happened at LEGO too. The same happened to me actually 😅 I misspell Pippin's name on the packaging instead I put Peppin 😬
 

Edited December 6, 2022 by Rui Miguel

[Ravenclaw62442]

I think when you look at LotR merch in general you see that’s in not just LEGO who doesn’t see it as an all ages brand. I’m fine with that, if they do a few big large sets and do then right that would be perfect for me.

[Balrogofmorgoth]

12 minutes ago, Ravenclaw62442 said:

I think when you look at LotR merch in general you see that’s in not just LEGO who doesn’t see it as an all ages brand. I’m fine with that, if they do a few big large sets and do then right that would be perfect for me.

That would certainly be better than nothing. But it would mean missing out on so many possible minifigures and scenes. I’m still holding out hope (however slim) that we’ll get at least a few waves of sets before they cancel it again

[Alegrispa]

Y'all, as much as I love Lord of the Rings, and despite Amazons efforts, fact is that it just isn't as prevalent in the current Zeitgeist as it was 10 years ago when the Hobbit movies released, and that it something a massive, for-profit company like The LEGO Group takes into consideration.

Personally I doubt we got a whole line of sets coming. I'd love to be completely wrong about this, but that's just where I think we're at right now.

[wesker]

This is why diorama sets would be great for LOTR. Its a good middle ground between having affordable sets available while still keeping the theme primarily targeted at an older audience and not oversaturating the market.

The Balrog and Witch-King duels would be perfect for the quote format ("You shall not pass!"/"I am no man!") and there's plenty of other iconic moments they can cover such as the Mirror of Galadriel, Balin's Tomb, Aragorn's Coronation and Mount Doom. Even Osgiliath could be done this way.

Assuming this line is here for the long haul, I'd be happy with just getting one large D2C, two dioramas and a handful of Brickheadz each year.

 

 

 

[Balrogofmorgoth]

So many people are saying “I have zero interest in Brickheadz but I’ll buy these because it’s LOTR”. I think the demand is higher than people understand. Hopefully Avatar will fail and they can scrap it for LOTR lol

Edited December 6, 2022 by Balrogofmorgoth

[SirBlake]

3 hours ago, wesker said:

This is why diorama sets would be great for LOTR. Its a good middle ground between having affordable sets available while still keeping the theme primarily targeted at an older audience and not oversaturating the market.

The Balrog and Witch-King duels would be perfect for the quote format ("You shall not pass!"/"I am no man!") and there's plenty of other iconic moments they can cover such as the Mirror of Galadriel, Balin's Tomb, Aragorn's Coronation and Mount Doom. Even Osgiliath could be done this way.

Assuming this line is here for the long haul, I'd be happy with just getting one large D2C, two dioramas and a handful of Brickheadz each year.

 

 

 

I have to give this a BIG thumbs up. That would be a perfect way to provide a high quality, shelf-friendly solution that fans would devour. 
 

As a huge Star Wars fan, I had to make the decision 20 years ago that my $ and display space could only handle Lego or SW, but it couldn’t hold both. With that said, those SW dioramas have been the biggest temptation. I’m holding strong, but Lego LotR is too close to castle for me not to dive in.

Provided it’s not some dopey Brick Headz. They even put a Z on the end just as a little dopey cherry on top. lol

I don’t really feel that strongly about them one way or the other, but the fact that they’re the only affordable and easily accessible option after 10ish years… that’s just mean. 

[someguy827]

Hi everyone new here and new to the Lord Of The Rings, I’m just very excited for the Rivendale set coming out. I personally don’t think that we need to worry that it’ll be a Black Panther bust situation, I‘m hoping that it’s not a 75955 Hogwarts Express situation, which to me was the most disappointing set of the whole year for me. Completely oversized and focusing on the wrong aspects of the set in my opinion. I’m hoping that they make Riveldale minifigure scale, and make it a cross between the Lion Knights Castle (in terms of scale) and the Council of Elrond set, and that they don’t make it another microscale set like the Hogwarts Castle. I’ve heard that it will be minifigure scale based on the fact that it comes with minifigures, which doesn’t make sense to me as the Hogwarts Castle had minifigures on display. Just wondering if someone who knows more than me could clear this up for me if anyone knows. Thank you!

[Balrogofmorgoth]

It’s not just the Black Panther set. Hogwarts Icons? Hogwarts Express isn’t terrible but nobody wanted it, and I don’t know very many people that are buying it. And then there’s the Hulkbuster…yikes. It’s very clear that lego is completely out of touch with their adult market, which is why I have little faith in a LOTR theme if they only target adults

[RichardGoring]

I don't think it's entirely fair to say that they are completely out of touch with the adult market. Yes, some failures, but look at some of the other recent stuff. Eiffel tower, Titanic, botanicals, Back to the Future Delorean, Optimus Prime, Daily Bugle, Sanctum Santorum, Thanos Infinity Gauntlet, motorized lighthouse, starry night, not to mention Galaxy Explorer and Lion Knight's castle. They are just producing so much more. Let's hope they are in the amazing set camp for Lord of the Rings.

[MAB]

4 hours ago, Balrogofmorgoth said:

It’s not just the Black Panther set. Hogwarts Icons? Hogwarts Express isn’t terrible but nobody wanted it, and I don’t know very many people that are buying it. And then there’s the Hulkbuster…yikes. It’s very clear that lego is completely out of touch with their adult market, which is why I have little faith in a LOTR theme if they only target adults

It is not clear that they are out of touch with the adult market. Apparently many more adults are buying LEGO products now than in the past. I'd say that they are in touch with the adult market. Specific fan groups that don't get exactly what they want might feel they are out of touch, but across the whole range of 18+ products LEGO seems to be doing quite well.

[Balrogofmorgoth]

3 hours ago, MAB said:

It is not clear that they are out of touch with the adult market. Apparently many more adults are buying LEGO products now than in the past. I'd say that they are in touch with the adult market. Specific fan groups that don't get exactly what they want might feel they are out of touch, but across the whole range of 18+ products LEGO seems to be doing quite well.

 

7 hours ago, RichardGoring said:

I don't think it's entirely fair to say that they are completely out of touch with the adult market. Yes, some failures, but look at some of the other recent stuff. Eiffel tower, Titanic, botanicals, Back to the Future Delorean, Optimus Prime, Daily Bugle, Sanctum Santorum, Thanos Infinity Gauntlet, motorized lighthouse, starry night, not to mention Galaxy Explorer and Lion Knight's castle. They are just producing so much more. Let's hope they are in the amazing set camp for Lord of the Rings.

Let me rephrase. They are out of touch  with their adult market in licensed themes. There might be a good one every now and then, like the Sanctum. But more often than not it seems to be a Hulkbuster situation. A lot of their licensed D2C sets have not been selling well

Edited December 7, 2022 by Balrogofmorgoth

[MAB]

1 hour ago, Balrogofmorgoth said:

 

Let me rephrase. They are out of touch  with their adult market in licensed themes. There might be a good one every now and then, like the Sanctum. But more often than not it seems to be a Hulkbuster situation. A lot of their licensed D2C sets have not been selling well

Again you have used this phrase that they are not selling well. We don't know that. We also don't know how well they were meant to sell or what their sales targets were, or what discounts they had planned for them. Most sets seem rather over-priced for what they are and this may be LEGO's strategy for maximising revenue from initial sales followed by continued sales at a lower price level through a discount. Plus many of these sets will have been planned and priced before the recent rise in the prices of basics due to global inflation. With the lego buying public having less freely available cash or just being more cautious about luxury spending, this may cause sets that would have sold perfectly well to become harder to shift. Not just licensed D2C sets, but across the whole range.

The Hulkbuster has been out for, what is it, 4-6 weeks? I think a set needs longer than that before it becomes a named "situation". Looking at the reviews on lego.com, there seem to be three types of ratings: negative ones from people that have not bought the set that are complaining it is too big (so why not buy one of the other smaller Hulkbuster sets in your price range then), negative ones from people that were willing to buy it and complaining it is flimsy and positive ones from people that bought it and love it. That indicates that there are people willing to pay for a set like the large Hulkbuster, and that it is the design that is either good or bad - that is, the product idea is a good one (for people that can afford it), just that some people do not like the design. When there are reviews that claim it is very weak and breaks easy yet also claims that no-one asked for or wanted it, you know they are fake and negative for the sake of being negative about a set they probably cannot afford.

Edited December 7, 2022 by MAB

[Balrogofmorgoth]

55 minutes ago, MAB said:

Again you have used this phrase that they are not selling well. We don't know that. We also don't know how well they were meant to sell or what their sales targets were, or what discounts they had planned for them. Most sets seem rather over-priced for what they are and this may be LEGO's strategy for maximising revenue from initial sales followed by continued sales at a lower price level through a discount. Plus many of these sets will have been planned and priced before the recent rise in the prices of basics due to global inflation. With the lego buying public having less freely available cash or just being more cautious about luxury spending, this may cause sets that would have sold perfectly well to become harder to shift. Not just licensed D2C sets, but across the whole range.

The Hulkbuster has been out for, what is it, 4-6 weeks? I think a set needs longer than that before it becomes a named "situation". Looking at the reviews on lego.com, there seem to be three types of ratings: negative ones from people that have not bought the set that are complaining it is too big (so why not buy one of the other smaller Hulkbuster sets in your price range then), negative ones from people that were willing to buy it and complaining it is flimsy and positive ones from people that bought it and love it. That indicates that there are people willing to pay for a set like the large Hulkbuster, and that it is the design that is either good or bad - that is, the product idea is a good one (for people that can afford it), just that some people do not like the design. When there are reviews that claim it is very weak and breaks easy yet also claims that no-one asked for or wanted it, you know they are fake and negative for the sake of being negative about a set they probably cannot afford.

5x vip points is a clear indication. And yes, I’ve spoken to lego store employees so I know what sets haven’t sold well. Besides, you don’t have to go very far into the lego corner of the internet to see that nobody wants this Hulkbuster

[SirBlake]

10 minutes ago, Balrogofmorgoth said:

5x vip points is a clear indication. And yes, I’ve spoken to lego store employees so I know what sets haven’t sold well. Besides, you don’t have to go very far into the lego corner of the internet to see that nobody wants this Hulkbuster

I see where you’re going with this, and I’m not personally trying to make a case for great Hulkbuster sales (I truly don’t care), but when it comes to projecting sales performance in general, it is something that is, at best, inferred based on a collection of anecdotal evidence and the conclusion can be heavily influenced by bias, with no actual sales data to confirm or deny the supposition. Because of this, I find these sales projections to be less than scientific. It’s fine to speculate, but without real data that we’re not going to get, it seems rife with speculation that is heavily influenced by opinion. 

[Balrogofmorgoth]

23 minutes ago, SirBlake said:

I see where you’re going with this, and I’m not personally trying to make a case for great Hulkbuster sales (I truly don’t care), but when it comes to projecting sales performance in general, it is something that is, at best, inferred based on a collection of anecdotal evidence and the conclusion can be heavily influenced by bias, with no actual sales data to confirm or deny the supposition. Because of this, I find these sales projections to be less than scientific. It’s fine to speculate, but without real data that we’re not going to get, it seems rife with speculation that is heavily influenced by opinion. 

I’m not even trying to make it about those other sets honestly, my main point is that we can look at a lot of recent D2C sets, mostly licensed ones, and see that not very many adults like them or want them. Even leaving out sales numbers, it’s hard to find members of the lego community that don’t dislike a lot of these sets. With that in mind, I think it’s a valid concern that if lego decides to only aim LOTR at adults, they very well could miss the mark and design sets that people just don’t want and offer very little value to people 

[McMurder_them_softly]

I, for one, celebrate the return and hope for sets of any kind! I would buy most any set except Brickheadz. Not something I have ever been interested in. I hope to see dioramas, playsets, large adult sets...

[MAB]

1 hour ago, Balrogofmorgoth said:

5x vip points is a clear indication. And yes, I’ve spoken to lego store employees so I know what sets haven’t sold well. Besides, you don’t have to go very far into the lego corner of the internet to see that nobody wants this Hulkbuster

A clear indication of what? Poor sales after just a couple of weeks or that they had already planned to use 5x VIP points as a way to make sales by pricing it slightly higher than they would have otherwise done. There are people that want it, because they have bought it. And why would people buy it if they didn't want it? Sure there are plenty of people that don't want it or can't afford it and won't buy it, that leave negative reviews about it to highlight their objections to LEGO making such sets. That also happened with Queer Eye and Everyone is Awesome. LEGO even removed some of the reviews of those sets because it was very clear they were left by people that hadn't purchased the sets.

Maybe we should wait and see what the LOTR set actually looks like before saying that LEGO doesn't understand the AFOL and LOTR audience because they have made an expensive adult LOTR set and not a full theme for children. LEGO has made plenty of adult sets that sell well (whether your store employees confirm it or not) and are well received.

 

[Balrogofmorgoth]

41 minutes ago, MAB said:

A clear indication of what? Poor sales after just a couple of weeks or that they had already planned to use 5x VIP points as a way to make sales by pricing it slightly higher than they would have otherwise done. There are people that want it, because they have bought it. And why would people buy it if they didn't want it? Sure there are plenty of people that don't want it or can't afford it and won't buy it, that leave negative reviews about it to highlight their objections to LEGO making such sets. That also happened with Queer Eye and Everyone is Awesome. LEGO even removed some of the reviews of those sets because it was very clear they were left by people that hadn't purchased the sets.

Maybe we should wait and see what the LOTR set actually looks like before saying that LEGO doesn't understand the AFOL and LOTR audience because they have made an expensive adult LOTR set and not a full theme for children. LEGO has made plenty of adult sets that sell well (whether your store employees confirm it or not) and are well received.

 

I’m not saying this set will be bad. All I’m saying is that based on observation of other sets, I would be worried if lego launched this theme with only adults in mind. And yes, 5x vip points of specific sets is a very clear indication of desperation for sales. 

[Ravenclaw62442]

15 hours ago, someguy827 said:

I‘m hoping that it’s not a 75955 Hogwarts Express situation, which to me was the most disappointing set of the whole year for me. Completely oversized and focusing on the wrong aspects of the set in my opinion.

See I love it and think it focused on the right aspects. I love the platform and I’m glad it isn’t mechanised 😅

[SirBlake]

2 hours ago, Balrogofmorgoth said:

I’m not saying this set will be bad. All I’m saying is that based on observation of other sets, I would be worried if lego launched this theme with only adults in mind. 

We have a few fantastic examples of adult-focused solutions (like those SW dioramas), so it very doesn’t seem like it’s worth the negativity. To me at least. 

[MAB]

1 hour ago, Balrogofmorgoth said:

I’m not saying this set will be bad. All I’m saying is that based on observation of other sets, I would be worried if lego launched this theme with only adults in mind.

Based on ONE set that you don't like. There are plenty of decent 18+ sets. It is far more likely to be well received than not well received based on all the other 18+ sets they have produced. Will some people think it is too expensive and probably give it negative reviews because they cannot afford it and feel excluded? Almost certainly.

LEGO also make "mistakes" according to adults when they do sets aimed at kids. Off the top of my head, ones I recall from the original waves of LOTR included: why do you keep repeating Gandalf; why do you keep repeating Frodo; ditto for Gimli and Legolas; why is Eomer in the army builder set, it should be generic soldiers only; character X should have been in set Y instead; why give us Wizard Battle, then release Orthanc covering the same location; the Mines of Moria isn't a mine, just a bit of wall and doorway; Weathertop is too small; the Orc Forge should be enclosed; Orthanc is too expensive; the Council of Elrond is too small to fit even just the Fellowship; that ship was only on the screen for a few seconds; Mouth of Sauron was only in the extended edition; and that is before we get to missing characters and scenes.

There are pros and cons (to collectors) for a theme of small sets vs one big set. Clearly a pro of small sets is that you buy what you want and cover lots of scenes but a con is that if you buy them all because you need the exclusive figures in some sets, then you will get duplicates of popular characters. This happens in SW, Superheroes, Harry Potter, and unlicensed themes. You also end up with a display of lots of small bits more like Assault on Hoth than a large complete and coherent model. As they are going big, I'm hoping the build itself is actually an interesting one, and not just a series of small and boring builds to push to the back to show off a collection of minifigures. Some adults will love big build like that. Others will just want the minifigures and feel hard done by that they were forced to buy a big 18+ set to get them.