Lord of the Rings Ongoing Discussion

[BrickBob Studpants]

4 minutes ago, mtrsteve said:

Theme may have done better in the absence of hobbit material.

I don‘t follow the logic. The 2012 sets came out half a year before the first Hobbit film and sets did. And the Hobbit movies definitely resparked general interest in LOTR.

Also, why should the Hobbit sets negatively impact the LOTR ones? I doubt anyone was like „yeah, this Helm‘s Deep set looks great! That Gollum cave set looks mediorce though. Eh, not getting any, then“

[TheDoctor]

I don't understand all this quibbling over the interior rooms.
They'll bulk it out with stuff that's not from book or film and take artistic liberty with what did/didn't take place there.

I'm expecting the ground floor to have lava and a forge for the One Ring. Makes zero sense but it's an iconic image. (Plus will look good for promo picks and renders)
Just as likely there will be a dungeon, throne room and library with a palantir. 

Edited January 10, 2024 by TheDoctor
grammar

[mtrsteve]

2 hours ago, BrickBob Studpants said:

I don‘t follow the logic. The 2012 sets came out half a year before the first Hobbit film and sets did. And the Hobbit movies definitely resparked general interest in LOTR.

Also, why should the Hobbit sets negatively impact the LOTR ones? I doubt anyone was like „yeah, this Helm‘s Deep set looks great! That Gollum cave set looks mediorce though. Eh, not getting any, then“

I mean to say that if instead of making Hobbit sets, they only made LotR ones, they may have sold better because the scenes are more iconic. So the direct Hobbit tie in sets may have sold worse than the direct LotR ones, dragging down overall sales in the process. To be clear, I have no evidence to support this other than my own feelings towards the respective sets. 

 

Obviously the Hobbit movies gave then the impetus for starting the line in the first place, which can't be ignored (but is maybe besides the point)

[MAB]

2 hours ago, mtrsteve said:

I mean to say that if instead of making Hobbit sets, they only made LotR ones, they may have sold better because the scenes are more iconic. So the direct Hobbit tie in sets may have sold worse than the direct LotR ones, dragging down overall sales in the process. To be clear, I have no evidence to support this other than my own feelings towards the respective sets. 

 

Obviously the Hobbit movies gave then the impetus for starting the line in the first place, which can't be ignored (but is maybe besides the point)

There were complaints about the LOTR sets at the time. Along the lines of ...

Weathertop was too small, the Mines of Moria were just walls, Shelob had no lair, Uruk-Hai Army was just a bit of wall, Council of Elrond was too small, Black Gate was only half a gate, nobody asked for the pirate ship, Wizard Battle just contained duplicate figures from Orthanc, which is nice but why did they make it so big and expensive...?

[mtrsteve]

1 hour ago, MAB said:

There were complaints about the LOTR sets at the time. Along the lines of ...

Weathertop was too small, the Mines of Moria were just walls, Shelob had no lair, Uruk-Hai Army was just a bit of wall, Council of Elrond was too small, Black Gate was only half a gate, nobody asked for the pirate ship, Wizard Battle just contained duplicate figures from Orthanc, which is nice but why did they make it so big and expensive...?

Yeah well there's always room for improvement. I just know I bought almost all the LotR sets, whereas the only hobbit set I bought was to get Smaug 

[Balrogofmorgoth]

2 hours ago, MAB said:

There were complaints about the LOTR sets at the time. Along the lines of ...

Weathertop was too small, the Mines of Moria were just walls, Shelob had no lair, Uruk-Hai Army was just a bit of wall, Council of Elrond was too small, Black Gate was only half a gate, nobody asked for the pirate ship, Wizard Battle just contained duplicate figures from Orthanc, which is nice but why did they make it so big and expensive...?

Honestly those complaints all sound about as dumb as crying over helmet holes on clones

[Jarreth2]

Does everyone remember the challenge Lego Ideas had .. Exploring the world of Middle Earth .. I know it was never suggested that we would get any of the winning entries as actual sets .. but it makes you wonder ?? 🤔

[Black Falcon]

3 hours ago, MAB said:

There were complaints about the LOTR sets at the time. Along the lines of ...

Name me one theme where that wouldn´t be the case? There will always be someone complaining about something.

But aside from that, there has been quite some time between then and now and overall I would say that the look of Lego-Sets has improved to be more appealing to adults.

[BitByBrick]

52 minutes ago, Black Falcon said:

Name me one theme where that wouldn´t be the case? There will always be someone complaining about something.

But aside from that, there has been quite some time between then and now and overall I would say that the look of Lego-Sets has improved to be more appealing to adults.

I think the original sets were very well designed compared to other sets of that time. The Rivendell set however is a thing of beauty. Looking forward to pictures of the next LOTR set. I have high hopes more sets will come out. Even would be very happy if they just remade the original LOTR sets like they did with IJ. 

[Balrogofmorgoth]

1 hour ago, BitByBrick said:

I think the original sets were very well designed compared to other sets of that time. The Rivendell set however is a thing of beauty. Looking forward to pictures of the next LOTR set. I have high hopes more sets will come out. Even would be very happy if they just remade the original LOTR sets like they did with IJ. 

Yeah the LOTR sets were definitely ahead of their time. But it’s time for upgrades!

2 hours ago, Black Falcon said:

Name me one theme where that wouldn´t be the case? There will always be someone complaining about something.

But aside from that, there has been quite some time between then and now and overall I would say that the look of Lego-Sets has improved to be more appealing to adults.

Yup, the lego community has a gift for finding dumb things to complain about

[Lordhelmet]

It was easy to take the theme for granted back then.  I bought all of the LOTR and was selective about hobbit sets but I remember expecting Lego to come out with Gondor sets.  How could they not? (Jokes on us).  There were sales on the sets but at the time that was common for most themes (I remember when Lego used to retire sets and VIP access gave you early discounts like I got the Home One for 50% off from the Lego store) . So when they canceled I was surprised based on how much more the theme could have explored.  Hoping for a great Brad Dur and still hoping for a small line of play scale or other smaller sets.

[Mandalorianknight]

On 12/31/2023 at 9:27 AM, RichardGoring said:

Something else about Rivendell is just how large the box is compared to the contents. I sorted out all the bags, and I typically put them back into the box in reverse order, so I can find them easily during the build. It turns out that you can fit all of the bags into the smaller inner box, so more than half of the packaging is air. I laid all of the flat, but didn't push them down, although I realize that even this is impossible on a production line. I also know that they like to have boxes of a certain size to make it feel better when buying something for that much money, but I was still surprised by just how compact it would be while still in bags.

That's of course part of it, but I'm assuming another benefit to having the parts more spaced out and able to jostle around is so they have that freedom of movement while the box is transported, rather than all being packed tightly against one another, which might help reduce scratching/bending/damage/etc. 

Edited January 11, 2024 by Mandalorianknight

[MAB]

16 hours ago, mtrsteve said:

Yeah well there's always room for improvement. I just know I bought almost all the LotR sets, whereas the only hobbit set I bought was to get Smaug 

I somehow doubt that not doing The Hobbit sets would have changed the quality of the LOTR sets. They were working to their standard pattern for themes at the time, covering a range of sized sets and designing each set to the parts count needed for the price point, and spreading the necessary minifigures across all sets while repeating the core fan favourites. Not doing The Hobbit might have given us more LOTR at similar quality but then it could also have meant no LOTR sets if Warner Bros wanted to push The Hobbit rather than LOTR.

 

Personally I bought all The Hobbit sets, mainly to get the full company of Dwarves, but some of the sets weren't bad. Bag End was the star of the theme and goes well with LOTR too but I also thought the Barrel Escape was a fun set, and the Lake Town sets were quite good scenery too.

Edited January 11, 2024 by MAB

[Balrogofmorgoth]

Yeah I also think the Hobbit sets were mostly pretty good fun sets. I don’t think they were bad, but I personally prioritized LOTR because I just like those films so much more. But I definitely would not agree that The Hobbit sets were bad

[BrickBob Studpants]

Personally, I loved the Hobbit sets and was so impressed they went all out for the minifigs and creatures especially!  Smaug is still my favourite LEGO creature ever released.

Looking back, it’s crazy we finally get more sets again, even if it’s “just” Icons sets and Brickheadz. Never would’ve expected that!

[zoth33]

4 hours ago, BrickBob Studpants said:

Personally, I loved the Hobbit sets and was so impressed they went all out for the minifigs and creatures especially!  Smaug is still my favourite LEGO creature ever released.

Looking back, it’s crazy we finally get more sets again, even if it’s “just” Icons sets and Brickheadz. Never would’ve expected that!

Yeah the LOTR/Hobbit sets had some great designs and figs and animals.  I have 2 eagles, 2 each of the 3 wargs.  I don't have smaug but I did get my youngest son Smaug for christmas a few years ago he is a fantastic looking dragon.  I'm waiting on getting Rivendell.  I can't wait to see pics of Barad Dur I know the figs will be great.  

[kuzyabricks]

Does anyone know any info on why we suddenly got a revival of HP in 2018? I know Fantastic Beasts were coming out with films but it's not like they brought on hype? I know Harry Potter is easier to get into than LOTR but still. If Lego just decided to bring back HP for the heck of it I would be more optimistic about LOTR coming back in play scale form (next year? We would have heard if it was this year) but I assume HP just sold better since I don't recall it being on heavy clearance around 2012 (correct me if I'm wrong I was younger back then lol). And if LOTR magically came back next year in play scale form I think it would only be if Baradur sold on the same level of Rivendell which we'll have to see about. Also do you think the LOTR aftermarket would fall? I remember back in 2018 Harry Potter sets even from 2012 were ridiculous  priced but have dropped significantly since the emergence of the new sets. I guess we'll have to see, I'm not too optimistic though :(((

[Roebuck]

2 hours ago, kuzyabricks said:

Does anyone know any info on why we suddenly got a revival of HP in 2018? I know Fantastic Beasts were coming out with films but it's not like they brought on hype?

If I remember correctly HP was the most asked after Lego sets from customers the shops did not sell for years leading up to that. The theme had also 4 out of the 10 bestselling sets from Lego that year to prove it! I do not think LOTR can match that, but would not be surprised if Rivendell is on the top 10 for 2023 

[kuzyabricks]

44 minutes ago, Roebuck said:

If I remember correctly HP was the most asked after Lego sets from customers the shops did not sell for years leading up to that. The theme had also 4 out of the 10 bestselling sets from Lego that year to prove it! I do not think LOTR can match that, but would not be surprised if Rivendell is on the top 10 for 2023 

Ah I see thank you! I know this is anecdotal evidence but almost every single creator on instagram I follow that had a poll for best set of 2023 had rivendell coming out on top. 

[MAB]

1 hour ago, kuzyabricks said:

Ah I see thank you! I know this is anecdotal evidence but almost every single creator on instagram I follow that had a poll for best set of 2023 had rivendell coming out on top. 

Best selling and best set are two very different things. It wouldn't surprise me if just about every small HP play set (individually,  not combined) outsell Rivendell even when compared by volume x price and not just volume.

[Black Falcon]

14 hours ago, kuzyabricks said:

Also do you think the LOTR aftermarket would fall? I remember back in 2018 Harry Potter sets even from 2012 were ridiculous  priced but have dropped significantly since the emergence of the new sets. I guess we'll have to see, I'm not too optimistic though :(((

If you compare the old Harry Potter Sets with the Lord of the Ring ones I would say, the Lord of the Rings were already way better designed (after all there are ten years in between them) and while the second wave of Harry Potter already got the new skin colours the minifigures don´t look that good while the Lord of the Ring Minifigures are just great. That beeing said, while the price might drop because people don´t have to buy the old sets but also can buy the new ones, I wouldn´t think that the drop would be that big.

[MAB]

15 hours ago, kuzyabricks said:

Also do you think the LOTR aftermarket would fall? I remember back in 2018 Harry Potter sets even from 2012 were ridiculous  priced but have dropped significantly since the emergence of the new sets. I guess we'll have to see, I'm not too optimistic though :(((

Unless they are direct copies, I doubt the old sets would fall in value if they did a new smallish range. If anything, new sets increase the number of people looking for the old sets so increases the demand and helps to push up prices. If they suddenly released multiple new versions of Saruman or Theoden it might hit the value if the original figures. But the new versions of the Fellowship minifigures have not really impacted the prices of the old ones. That was part of the problem with Harry Potter, they released so many sets with multiple repetitions of Harry, Ron and Hermione that the old sets were no longer valued as sets or minifigure packs. If they started doing as many sets as Harry Potter, and they were done well and contained lots of variants of the characters, and did it year after year, then old set prices would be impacted.

[CowabungaCat]

On 1/13/2024 at 6:11 AM, MAB said:

Unless they are direct copies, I doubt the old sets would fall in value if they did a new smallish range. If anything, new sets increase the number of people looking for the old sets so increases the demand and helps to push up prices. If they suddenly released multiple new versions of Saruman or Theoden it might hit the value if the original figures. But the new versions of the Fellowship minifigures have not really impacted the prices of the old ones. That was part of the problem with Harry Potter, they released so many sets with multiple repetitions of Harry, Ron and Hermione that the old sets were no longer valued as sets or minifigure packs. If they started doing as many sets as Harry Potter, and they were done well and contained lots of variants of the characters, and did it year after year, then old set prices would be impacted.

New versions of the Fellowship are a single super-large set. Now sure, probably cheaper than aftermarket prices for the entire fellowship. But if we got say a remake of Gandalf's arrival, thats a cheap way for everyone to get Gandalf and Frodo and prices would drop. Similarly, a new Hagrids Hut many find superior brings down prices of the older one, so would a new... weathertop. And Harry Potter has one clear location to always have on shelves if anything is, and a good 30% of the line is that location. LOTR has so many diverse locations and no clear one to do, so while I saw Hagrids Huts going cheaper before there was any inkling of a 2019 one, who can be sure we get a new better Helms Deep? And when you give everyone Rivendell and no guarantee of anything else, and now a rumoured second set of another new location, you can bet that drives demand up for the original LOTR line. Anyone selling a Saruman's tower specifically is probably in for a double dose of luck there.

Very different scenarios

[MAB]

7 hours ago, CowabungaCat said:

New versions of the Fellowship are a single super-large set. Now sure, probably cheaper than aftermarket prices for the entire fellowship. But if we got say a remake of Gandalf's arrival, thats a cheap way for everyone to get Gandalf and Frodo and prices would drop.

The new Fellowship minifigures are considerably cheaper than the originals despite coming in a very large set, and they haven't really had any impact on the prices of the originals. If they re-release the Gandalf Arrives set, I doubt the value of the two figures from the original set would change very much, but the volume of sales would decrease. They are relatively common and cheap compared to other original figures already. A re-release would impact the price of modern Gandalf figures from Rivendell and any other new sets, as people wanting a modern Gandalf in grey robes can easily get one. That is pretty much what happened first time around. Gandalf the Grey figures were cheap, as were the two Frodo figures as they were repeated or in a cheap polybag. Whereas Gandalf the White wasn't repeated and has kept value.

Even with how common the sand green Frodo is, there have been just 29 transactions on bricklink in the past six months for new ones, worldwide. If a new version comes out, sellers are likely to keep the same prices and accept slower sales. They have been holding them for 10 years, waiting another 10 is not a big deal.

[Lordhelmet]

2 hours ago, MAB said:

The new Fellowship minifigures are considerably cheaper than the originals despite coming in a very large set, and they haven't really had any impact on the prices of the originals. If they re-release the Gandalf Arrives set, I doubt the value of the two figures from the original set would change very much, but the volume of sales would decrease. They are relatively common and cheap compared to other original figures already. A re-release would impact the price of modern Gandalf figures from Rivendell and any other new sets, as people wanting a modern Gandalf in grey robes can easily get one. That is pretty much what happened first time around. Gandalf the Grey figures were cheap, as were the two Frodo figures as they were repeated or in a cheap polybag. Whereas Gandalf the White wasn't repeated and has kept value.

Even with how common the sand green Frodo is, there have been just 29 transactions on bricklink in the past six months for new ones, worldwide. If a new version comes out, sellers are likely to keep the same prices and accept slower sales. They have been holding them for 10 years, waiting another 10 is not a big deal.

I’d be good with the old figure prices dropping because we got new better ones.  I doubt that we will ever see that market collapse but if they lost 25-50% of their value because we have newer better versions I’ll be here for it.  Heck I’d take a remake of all the sets right now :).