Lord of the Rings Ongoing Discussion

[BitByBrick]

58 minutes ago, Dr.Cogg said:

I'm hoping if the Tower sells well Lego does an Icons Balrog vs Gandalf Bridge set.

Balrog vs Gandalf Bridge set, YES PLEASE!! 🙏

[TheDoctor]

13 hours ago, BrickBob Studpants said:

And what about the Snow White Cottage that gained two minifigs, several animals, plus the glas coffin? Or the Sorting Hat that pretty much stayed the same?  There's zero indication that Barad-dûr will be downgraded in any way!

Yeah I agree, I don't think the surveys can be used as a measure like that.

It could easily go both ways with the survey feedback, "Make the playset smaller and more affordable" VS "Make the tower bigger but less detailed".
We don't even know what questions were pitched.

If anything goes to keep cost down, it will be the light brick function for the eye of Sauron.

Edited February 11, 2024 by TheDoctor

[BrickBob Studpants]

Are people seriously panicking over the Barad-dûr set just because they removed most of the animals from the completely unrelated MTS?  Barad-dûr‘s a $460 set. It‘s gonna be awesome no matter what!

And what would there even be to downgrade? Remove the Eye of Sauron?  Besides, the picture quality of this set was by far the worst of all the survey leaks, so it‘s gonna be hard to tell what they changed anyway.

If anything, they might have expanded the minifig selection! And even if they haven’t, all we really need are Sauron and some orcs anyway. Everything else is a bonus in my book 

Edited February 11, 2024 by BrickBob Studpants

[Metanoios]

On 2/9/2024 at 8:02 AM, Roebuck said:

After all the budget cuts MTS was forced to take I would start worrying if I was you guys

Oh man, you are right. Lego will probably leave out the 20 completely essential Mordor lava cows. Everyone knows that this is a key character in the Mount Doom scenes when the ring is destroyed. How will we be able to recreate those scenes, if they cut the budget and leave out all those beautiful cows??? The deserted wasteland surrounding Barad-Dur will be devoid of any farm animals that would have enticed me to buy the set 5 times

[Roebuck]

4 hours ago, TheDoctor said:

We don't even know what questions were pitched.

It was only about what they would give for the different sets so unless the price drops a lot for the set you should be safe 😅

4 hours ago, BrickBob Studpants said:

 Besides, the picture quality of this set was by far the worst of all the survey leaks, so it‘s gonna be hard to tell what they changed anyway.

That is also true 🙈

[hikouki]

5 hours ago, BrickBob Studpants said:

Are people seriously panicking over the Barad-dûr set just because they removed most of the animals from the completely unrelated MTS?  Barad-dûr‘s a $460 set. It‘s gonna be awesome no matter what!

...

The level of worry about a recent much-anticipated set from an unrelated theme just shows how much anticipation and expectation there is for any LOTR set. ROTFL

Edited February 11, 2024 by hikouki

[BrickBob Studpants]

35 minutes ago, hikouki said:

The level of worry about a recent much-anticipated set from an unrelated theme just shows how much anticipation and expectation there is for any LOTR set. ROTFL

It's still a bit like watching a bunch of headless chickens flailing around  What next, will Star Wars fans panic over the Moments space set not being on par with what fans anticipated?

[hikouki]

1 hour ago, BrickBob Studpants said:

It's still a bit like watching a bunch of headless chickens flailing around  What next, will Star Wars fans panic over the Moments space set not being on par with what fans anticipated?

I don't think there is going to be panic with any SW set - that theme gets a steady stream of releases year after year so Lego can "undo" and "outdo" itself. Ditto, the Disney strategy seems to be evolving and at some point was "all over the place" at one point.

The whole point with LOTR is that the theme was dead, then Lego revived it with Rivendell on the condition that it will sell well. Even at that, small sets are nowhere to be found so it was not resurrected to the same degree as when it was around. At this point, Lego can pull the plug anytime. It is a "high stakes" release so to speak. SW fans will be upset about the release but they will recover next year or the year after, but LOTR fans may not have anything to while about after.

[BrickBob Studpants]

9 minutes ago, hikouki said:

SW fans will be upset about the release but they will recover next year or the year after, but LOTR fans may not have anything to while about after.

Sure, but I still don't get what a lack of animals in the MTS set has to do with Barad-dûr potentially being downgraded  

[hikouki]

1 minute ago, BrickBob Studpants said:

Sure, but I still don't get what a lack of animals in the MTS set has to do with Barad-dûr potentially being downgraded  

Sure, you just don't get what you don't. ROTFL

[zoth33]

8 hours ago, BrickBob Studpants said:

Are people seriously panicking over the Barad-dûr set just because they removed most of the animals from the completely unrelated MTS?  Barad-dûr‘s a $460 set. It‘s gonna be awesome no matter what!

And what would there even be to downgrade? Remove the Eye of Sauron?  Besides, the picture quality of this set was by far the worst of all the survey leaks, so it‘s gonna be hard to tell what they changed anyway.

If anything, they might have expanded the minifig selection! And even if they haven’t, all we really need are Sauron and some orcs anyway. Everything else is a bonus in my book 

Yeah people are funny.  And look at the leaked image of the DnD set which in my opinion has major upgrades like an Owlbear, Displacer beast, Beholder, the Dragon looks better in my opinion and there are even mushroom people underneath the bridge.  Also the figs look great from what I can see.

[sebastian666]

What does everyone think the chances are that we get a Fellbeast and Ringwraith with the Barad-Dur set? We got Gwaihir the Eagle in the Orthanc set. It would make sense to get a counterpart with this tower. They aren’t huge, dragon-sized creatures, so I don’t think it’s outside the realm of possibility. Brick-built would be okay, but I’d prefer a new body and head mold. I’ve seen some great MOCs that use the Thestral wings from the LEGO Harry Potter sets. This is a day one purchase for me regardless, but if it included a Fellbeast… that could be a game changer for some people.

Here’s a great Fellbeast MOC. I could definitely imagine something this size being included: 

 https://www.reddit.com/r/lego/s/L6FeU4Bfl5

[zoth33]

1 hour ago, sebastian666 said:

What does everyone think the chances are that we get a Fellbeast and Ringwraith with the Barad-Dur set? We got Gwaihir the Eagle in the Orthanc set. It would make sense to get a counterpart with this tower. They aren’t huge, dragon-sized creatures, so I don’t think it’s outside the realm of possibility. Brick-built would be okay, but I’d prefer a new body and head mold. I’ve seen some great MOCs that use the Thestral wings from the LEGO Harry Potter sets. This is a day one purchase for me regardless, but if it included a Fellbeast… that could be a game changer for some people.

Here’s a great Fellbeast MOC. I could definitely imagine something this size being included: 

 https://www.reddit.com/r/lego/s/L6FeU4Bfl5

I don't know but the DnD set got a Beholder, displacer beast, and Owlbear.  So they could upgrade it from the prelim photo that we saw.  In the movie they were dragon sized so maybe a brick built one but probably not a molded creature.  That Moc is a possibility as they have all those pieces but seems a little small.  

[Artanis I]

I am wondering if that red dragon is reusing parts for a fell beast? Or were they used somewhere else before? (My understanding was that new parts are generally not produced for Ideas sets.)

[Darth Shadowthrone]

24 minutes ago, Artanis I said:

I am wondering if that red dragon is reusing parts for a fell beast? Or were they used somewhere else before? (My understanding was that new parts are generally not produced for Ideas sets.)

The dragon looks to be mostly brick-built so I don’t think it uses any new moulds apart from maybe the plastic wings 

[Agent Kallus]

1 hour ago, Artanis I said:

I am wondering if that red dragon is reusing parts for a fell beast? Or were they used somewhere else before? (My understanding was that new parts are generally not produced for Ideas sets.)

That's how it used to work, but now it's the idea that the submission shouldn't be dependant on new parts but if TLG chooses they can make new parts for the set anyway.

[Lordhelmet]

I am getting more excited for Barad Dur the closer we get, hoping we get the Fell Beast but really just want another really good LOTR set with a good Sauron.  Although if we do get a molded/big figure it would be nice to get another Troll (like the ones from the black gate).  

Really want a better GWP this time around (I might hold off till double points if it is the brickheadz again), something like Harry Potter, Eiffel Tower, or a modular would get.  with a mini fig and small build that relates to the set.  My top picks would be Tolkien at his desk (I think Balrogofmorgoth had that idea last year), a fell beast with rider, Cirith Ungul room with an ORC, Last Alliance Isildur with a rocky display, etc.  If there is one of these I will be lined up outside the store early.  Plus Orthanc needs another tower next to it on my shelf to be less lonely.

I know there is a movie coming out, but how does Wicked get four sets and LOTR can't get a few small play sets?  Four sets for Wicked?  Not saying that it is a bad property, my wife likes it (she also won't buy the sets ever), but LOTR is a much bigger (top 20 media franchise?).  Lego has the rights to quite a few from the top 20, Disney/Pixar, Star Wars, Marvel, Batman, Harry Potter, and LOTR.  I still don't get why they can't do a small wave of play sets each year for a franchise this big.  I love Rivendell, and am very happy about Barad Dur, but seeing these other IPs get small waves of sets and Lego does not give their 6th best selling franchise three to four sets seems like a misuse of the license.  Crazy to me that they would have the rights but not utilize it to its potential even if it is just a small handful of sets each year (with mini figures, not brickheadz).

[MAB]

33 minutes ago, Lordhelmet said:

I am getting more excited for Barad Dur the closer we get, hoping we get the Fell Beast but really just want another really good LOTR set with a good Sauron.  Although if we do get a molded/big figure it would be nice to get another Troll (like the ones from the black gate).  

 

Mines of Moria?

34 minutes ago, Lordhelmet said:

I know there is a movie coming out, but how does Wicked get four sets and LOTR can't get a few small play sets?  Four sets for Wicked?  Not saying that it is a bad property, my wife likes it (she also won't buy the sets ever), but LOTR is a much bigger (top 20 media franchise?).  

Presumably as they see LOTR as an adult franchise. 

[Lordhelmet]

27 minutes ago, MAB said:

Mines of Moria?

Presumably as they see LOTR as an adult franchise. 

I would say similar in fashion to the one from the mines of Moria set, but one from the Black Gate (in the movies).

 

A shame.

[OtherRGIII]

On 2/10/2024 at 7:54 PM, BitByBrick said:

Balrog vs Gandalf Bridge set, YES PLEASE!! 🙏

This would also be a cool diorama along the lines of the SW theme ones. No indication they’d do that, but lots to work with through the stories. 

[RichardGoring]

1 hour ago, Lordhelmet said:

...

Really want a better GWP this time around (I might hold off till double points if it is the brickheadz again), something like Harry Potter, Eiffel Tower, or a modular would get...

... Lego does not give their 6th best selling franchise three to four sets seems like a misuse of the license.  Crazy to me that they would have the rights but not utilize it to its potential even if it is just a small handful of sets each year (with mini figures, not brickheadz).

Agreed that it would be great to get a related GWP, but I hope that it's not a figure that remains exclusive to that GWP, which is a huge pain for anyone after the day or two that it lasts, and also that they have sufficient stock so that it does last for more than a day or two!

Where do you get the data that LOTR is the sixth best selling theme? Also, they have given it four sets, albeit that three of them are Brickheadz. I don't like them either, but plenty of others do, and LEGO has clearly seen LOTR as an adult-focused, collectors theme, and so gone down the route of large Icons set and Brickheadz to cater to that. They have data from several waves to go on. Yes, that's ten years old, but it's still real data. And the LOTR world had supporting movies out at the time.

I would personally prefer a slow and steady release of one or two great sets every year or so, than attempt a wave that fails and kills it off, which may have been the case for Indiana Jones. Lots of excitement initially for the playsets, but then lots of discounting shortly afterwards. Probably not helped by only having two playsets available, another one cancelled at the last minute, and four or five that were speculated about, but may never have existed. So I'm hoping for slowly building up to success, rather than going bust first time around.

[Lordhelmet]

1 minute ago, RichardGoring said:

Agreed that it would be great to get a related GWP, but I hope that it's not a figure that remains exclusive to that GWP, which is a huge pain for anyone after the day or two that it lasts, and also that they have sufficient stock so that it does last for more than a day or two!

Where do you get the data that LOTR is the sixth best selling theme? Also, they have given it four sets, albeit that three of them are Brickheadz. I don't like them either, but plenty of others do, and LEGO has clearly seen LOTR as an adult-focused, collectors theme, and so gone down the route of large Icons set and Brickheadz to cater to that. They have data from several waves to go on. Yes, that's ten years old, but it's still real data. And the LOTR world had supporting movies out at the time.

I would personally prefer a slow and steady release of one or two great sets every year or so, than attempt a wave that fails and kills it off, which may have been the case for Indiana Jones. Lots of excitement initially for the playsets, but then lots of discounting shortly afterwards. Probably not helped by only having two playsets available, another one cancelled at the last minute, and four or five that were speculated about, but may never have existed. So I'm hoping for slowly building up to success, rather than going bust first time around.

First Point:  I don't disagree on the character being unique or not.  I thought Gringots was a good example with the extra goblin and bank that attaches.  I would be good with an extra orc or my preferred choice is Nazgûl with fell beast (like the one from the link above).  Not unique characters to the theme but something extra that fits the build, plus they wouldn't need any new parts for those.

Second Point.  Just general google searches (hard to find media franchises by the numbers that don't just focus on movies).  I found an article with the top 25 listed including each type of media (books, movies, tv, merchandise, video games). Pokemon was the top, Disney had like six entries (princesses, Winnie the Pooh, Toy Story, cars, etc.) in the top 20. Marvel and Spiderman were listed separately from each other but both in the top 20.  Not concrete evidence but compared to some other lists I found through google that mostly focused on movies the numbers looked accurate enough to view LOTR as a top 20 media franchise, mostly driven by decades of book sales.  

True, we do have the three sets, but other themes (geared at adults - Avatar, Indiana Jones, Wicked - none of which are kid themes) all have play sets.  It would be cool to know what their data shows which drives these decisions.  The movie argument can't really be used anymore, we get War of the Rohirim later this year, plus the amazon series (while not great, this hasn't stopped other themes having a bad movie see Dial of Destiny, or Eternals).  But most importantly we do have a movie from the theme coming out this year.

Third Point.  I agree and this is a good point, that I would rather see the theme successful, the Indiana Jones theme (while great sets) feels like it may have failed.  And they are a close comparison as referenced int he last point.  Maybe we keep this current trajectory until the 25th anniversary (in two years), or the rumored new trilogy comes out.  I would be good with this approach if it meant we saw a successful theme that got us some of the missing pieces like Gondor from Lego.  It would also be nice for a cheaper set once in a while vs. all $400 plus sets, like a $250 Edoras, or $300 Lothlorien.   Ultimately having the missing pieces of the theme added is the goal, whether that is 9 or 7 waves of big sets, or one (giant) wave to produce them all.  

 

[Cyprinus]

7 hours ago, Lordhelmet said:

Really want a better GWP this time around (I might hold off till double points if it is the brickheadz again), something like Harry Potter, Eiffel Tower, or a modular would get.  with a mini fig and small build that relates to the set.  My top picks would be Tolkien at his desk (I think Balrogofmorgoth had that idea last year), a fell beast with rider, Cirith Ungul room with an ORC, Last Alliance Isildur with a rocky display, etc.  If there is one of these I will be lined up outside the store early.  Plus Orthanc needs another tower next to it on my shelf to be less lonely.

If I'm honest I'd prefer an unrelated GWP - means you don't have to get the set at launch or buy the GWP on the aftermarket to have all the LotR/Tolkien stuff you'd want...

5 hours ago, Lordhelmet said:

Third Point.  I agree and this is a good point, that I would rather see the theme successful, the Indiana Jones theme (while great sets) feels like it may have failed.  And they are a close comparison as referenced int he last point.

Indiana Jones doing poorly isn't unique to Lego though. Dial of Destiny certainly wasn't a success, losing Disney a lot of money, making them shelve whatever plans they had for the franchise and call it the "final instalment". I don't think Indy ever had the popularity of LotR - nor its staying power in popculture - and it has been 35 years since we had an IJ movie that got really positive reception (Crystal Skull certainly didn't). I know we passed the 20th anniversary of the LotR trilogy, but those movies were something on a whole different level than what Indiana could hope for. Plus we had other Tolkien(esque) offerings the last few years, though their quality is... debatable at best.

[zoth33]

5 hours ago, Cyprinus said:

If I'm honest I'd prefer an unrelated GWP - means you don't have to get the set at launch or buy the GWP on the aftermarket to have all the LotR/Tolkien stuff you'd want...

Indiana Jones doing poorly isn't unique to Lego though. Dial of Destiny certainly wasn't a success, losing Disney a lot of money, making them shelve whatever plans they had for the franchise and call it the "final instalment". I don't think Indy ever had the popularity of LotR - nor its staying power in popculture - and it has been 35 years since we had an IJ movie that got really positive reception (Crystal Skull certainly didn't). I know we passed the 20th anniversary of the LotR trilogy, but those movies were something on a whole different level than what Indiana could hope for. Plus we had other Tolkien(esque) offerings the last few years, though their quality is... debatable at best.

Everything Disney has done lately has been a disaster.  They have ruined Star Wars and Marvel.  The Indiana Jones Dial of Destiny was a failure.  And Amazon is currently ruining the Wheel of Time and Tolkien.  I'm hoping The War of the Rohirrim is good.  All that said I just hope that Barad Dur comes with some good figs.  

[brimbolet]

On 2/12/2024 at 1:25 AM, sebastian666 said:

What does everyone think the chances are that we get a Fellbeast and Ringwraith with the Barad-Dur set?

I really would like to have an official fellbeast with the Angmar witchking but unfortunately the chances are zero. I think we'll get only the Legolas & Gimli BH as an GWP.