Lord of the Rings Ongoing Discussion

[R0Sch]

The included sticker sheet, for anyone wondering...

Spoiler

...and the paper based bags galore for the Enthuggers ;)

Spoiler

 

Edited May 14, 2024 by R0Sch

[Alexandrina]

Maybe I'm just not as big a Lord of the Rings fan as others here, but this set doesn't really do anything for me. It seems like an unwieldy-big build, with (on the whole) boring minifigures. Personally speaking, I might have bought it at £150 cheaper but at this price it's a straight no from me.

But that's probably not a terrible thing. I still haven't bought Rivendell (perks of spending half of last year struggling to find a steady job and having little income!) so I guess I can focus on saving up for that instead of rushing to grab the big new thing.

[RichardGoring]

Interesting point at the start of this designer interview that they didn't know there would be another Lord of the Rings set until after Rivendell released. So it may have been influenced on the success of Rivendell early on.

 

[NoOneOfImportance]

1 minute ago, RichardGoring said:

Interesting point at the start of this designer interview that they didn't know there would be another Lord of the Rings set until after Rivendell released. So it may have been influenced on the success of Rivendell early on.

 

Yeah there's no way this is true. The final set was shown in September 2023, and they didn't develop it in just a few months. 

[petero]

46 minutes ago, R0Sch said:

...and the paper based bags galore for the Enthuggers ;)

In all my LEGO purchases, I've never encountered a paper-based bag, even though every instruction manual touts them. Apparently they haven't made it across the pond yet.

[sahidko]

10 minutes ago, NoOneOfImportance said:

Yeah there's no way this is true. The final set was shown in September 2023, and they didn't develop it in just a few months. 

Maybe they meant they were working on Barad-Dur but were not sure it's actually end up being released until some initial sales data from Rivendell became available?

[Llewop]

Just watched the reveal and I think it looks better smaller. At the end the add two parts of the tower to extend it to make it taller and it for me makes it look bit silly much better smaller scale imo and looks better but similar in scale to Orthanc that we got years ago 

Edited May 14, 2024 by Llewop

[upliftingbricks]

1 hour ago, MAB said:

They do have that functionality, sort of. You bring up the set, and select the parts you need. Of course, there is no guarantee they have all the parts you need. It could be improved if they did specific floors through PAB so you have less work to do, but I don't think that is their intention for PAB.

The downside of extension packs is judging demands. With sets like that they will always get it wrong, producing too few and having people complain about availability and that they should have included the necessary parts in the main set, or produce too many and end up needing to discount them. 

Agreed. For 5000 piece set, one floor is approx a tenth (depending on floor) of that so makes selecting parts bit cumbersome. They could maybe allow filtering by bag number of a set. At least that narrows it down without them having to make specific part ("floor") lists to find the parts. Just makes sense to reduce the friction when advertising a set can be extended especially in this set where half of a 2nd set (i.e. the base) would be unusable for adding to the height.

Lego must know that the amount of people who can afford a 2nd set is less than those who would buy parts through PaB or bricklink. Even tho they own bricklink they would likely get more money through PaB extension packs and reducing friction to buy it that way increases the people more likely to do it.

Agree also with extension pack demand thats why from Lego's POV a PaB extension solution would be ideal for customer and Legos profit.

[RichardGoring]

25 minutes ago, NoOneOfImportance said:

Yeah there's no way this is true. The final set was shown in September 2023, and they didn't develop it in just a few months. 

Possibly. I don't quite understand why they would lie about it though. And the set shown in Sep 2023 had a load of temporary 3D printed parts for the new elements and pre-production art work, so it definitely wasn't finished.

Although now I think about, the big survey leak was in February 2023, before Rivendell was released, and that had a pretty decent/completed version of Barad Dur in it. So yes, you're likely right. But why on earth would they say that then? Bizarre.

[hikouki]

I wonder which dino ( Jurassic park), dreamzz, or ninjago parts out there can be used to MOC a fellbeast?

[unclejeffie]

7 minutes ago, hikouki said:

I wonder which dino ( Jurassic park), dreamzz, or ninjago parts out there can be used to MOC a fellbeast?

I wonder why i havent encountered a moc yet like the fellbeast in the lotr lego game

[JohnTPT17]

1 hour ago, R0Sch said:

The included sticker sheet, for anyone wondering...

Wait, so the Mithril shirt is a sticker... Again?! That's super lame. Sure, the foresight to make that part a print wasn't apparent with Rivendell, but now that both sets are out, that just feels like penny pinching.

[Metanoios]

There are six new orc helmets in the set (two of the more generic ones appear twice and the two unique ones each for Frodo and Sam) and also 4 of the new shields. One is used as an improvised bench in the kitchen, two in the armoury display stand and the one the olive green orc is holding.

1 hour ago, RichardGoring said:

Interesting point at the start of this designer interview that they didn't know there would be another Lord of the Rings set until after Rivendell released. So it may have been influenced on the success of Rivendell early on.

 

What the designers allude to here is that the decision to make the design an actual set might have been dependent on the success of Rivendell but they definitely didn't start designing it from scratch after the Rivendell release. The survey leak with Barad-Dur happened even before Rivendell was released, so it was already designed and almost finished before Rivendell was officially unveiled. Their might have been a few pieces like the new helmet molds that were just digitally designed and only in the prototype phase but the build and rough minifig selection was definitely completed at that point. Management at Lego can occasionaly scrap finished sets even last minute as can be seen with Inidana Jones Temple of Doom, Overwatch, Vidiyo (which had more than a complete wave scrapped just before release), when there is uncertainty of the financial viability or if there is fear of a bad impression on the brand identity

[Lion King]

That set looks fantastic! But $460? I can’t afford it… so It’s an easy pass for me. 

[LegoThomas85]

5 hours ago, Shiva said:

Yes, you builds are great.

Could we see your build in.. 5 days and how much that could cost?

Could you please, link me to the set where this version of the Fell Beast was in? I tried to search, but could not find it.

If i remember correctly, this was artwork/cover for the lotr videogame.

[RAKRONDEWL]

Initial impressions for me, the silhouette looks really good but the details on the tower exterior are...underwhelming.  I am heavily biased, as I have been tweaking my own design for 12 years, so I have stared at this tower way more more than the average fan.  I have been waiting all day to get off of work to see the larger LEGO community's thoughts.  I am happy to see that the majority love it!  The design doesn't really work for me personally and I see a few others feel the same way.  I am very happy we are getting the set and will be purchasing day one but I will most likely use the parts for my own MOC version instead.

Is Sauron's helmet one piece with the shoulder pauldrons?  Hmm, not sure how I feel about that.

[Black Falcon]

On 5/13/2024 at 2:01 AM, Balrogofmorgoth said:

I’m not sure it makes much sense to compare it to two of legos most popular and successful themes ever. It hasn’t really gotten off the ground yet. 

It will very likely depend on how good the sales of the two Sets we got are. Also more Big Sets doesn´t mean they will have to be that big, they could also do Sets in the 200€ range.

On 5/13/2024 at 2:12 AM, Balrogofmorgoth said:

I do want to see the really big sets continue. But they’re very popular, I don’t see Rivendell retiring in the usual time frame. So it doesn’t make sense to have four or five $500 LOTR D2C sets on shelves at once if they do one every year. They’ll have to start skipping a year if they want to keep making those sets, which is fine with me as long as we have other LOTR sets in the meantime. I’m banking on a regular theme at this point. Playsets, dioramas, and definitely battle packs are all on the table. All I can say is I hope they do it

Such big sets usually tend to stay around longer than smaller ones, and, to compare it again with Harry Potter, there are 4 Sets in the 400-500€ Range avaiable, + a 300 one and this years Big set isn´t even included. That beeing said, for Lego it does seem to make sense.

On 5/13/2024 at 2:47 AM, zoth33 said:

I really don't understand why we are getting 2 gollum movies coming.  I don't think this is a good idea for LOTR.  That being said I hope we get sets for the War of the Rohirrim and the Hunt for Gollum.  But we don't know what lego has the rights to and if they even can make sets from those movies.  

I don´t see an issue there. Sure we don´t know how exactly that contract looks like, but it would surprise me if they wouldn´t be able to make sets for those if they would want to make them. In the end the Warner/New Line would have interest to make money with their films, both in the cinema and through licensing.

On 5/13/2024 at 3:20 AM, Balrogofmorgoth said:

I think the Harry Potter reboot theme was initially approached perfectly. Then the team became obsessed with revisiting all the same old things over and over and over again. There’s so much they just refuse to cover for some reason, always going back to the same stuff, with only one or two new things per year. A LOTR reboot would have to avoid that trap in order to succeed. I think there’s definitely enough material to cover and plenty of characters and variations of characters to keep it going long enough to cover everything important. A handful of solid years of good full waves of sets and D2Cs is all it would need with very little repetition. Throw in a CMF or two and it’s pretty much all covered 

I think Lord of the Rings has more Places to display in the end than Harry Potter does. The Castle is the main place where most of the scenes happen, so naturally it will be included in every wave - though they also show different scenes even if they use the same rooms. But overall I would say that there is actually not that much real repetition as you would think would happen.

Anyways, one issue with Harry Potter IMO is that it has 3 main Characters and pretty much all Scenes in the Movies are about them, so they also are hugely presented in the films, wheras LotR has more main characters it can chooses from with less repetition among the sets from a wave.

[JimBaggins]

3 hours ago, Alexandrina said:

Maybe I'm just not as big a Lord of the Rings fan as others here, but this set doesn't really do anything for me. It seems like an unwieldy-big build, with (on the whole) boring minifigures. Personally speaking, I might have bought it at £150 cheaper but at this price it's a straight no from me.

I'm a massive LOTR fan and I feel the same. This is a decent set, but is nowhere near the quality of Rivendell or the accessibility of the OG sets. 

[zoth33]

10 hours ago, Balrogofmorgoth said:

Can’t do it. The Tolkien Estate holds exclusive rights to the First Age material. WB has no access to it whatsoever

Ok. So here are my thoughts. I LOVE the tower. It’s almost perfect although I’m really still unsure about the brown prices for the glowing effect. The figures are where a lot of my disappointment comes from. Only one new mold for Sauron is frustrating. This is a figure that should gotten full attention and detail. Having the shoulder armor and helmet being one piece is fine but they should have done it without making the neck look too thick. And no mace SUCKS. No Ringwraiths in the actual set is also a big L, with the only one being locked behind the GWP. Gollum looks great but he should have had pupils, the blind looking Star Wars eyes don’t look great. However, my biggest disappointment is Frodo and Sam. Reusing the Fellowship versions is cheap AF. These absolutely should have been new Mordor versions of them, no excuse. I like the Orc helmet and shield but no new weapons at all for this set really sucks

I know they can't do it right now.  I was saying hopefully in the future we can get new stories from Tolkiens world instead of telling us things we have already seen and know about Gollum.

 

 

[Alexandrina]

9 minutes ago, Black Falcon said:

Sure we don´t know how exactly that contract looks like, but it would surprise me if they wouldn´t be able to make sets for those if they would want to make them. In the end the Warner/New Line would have interest to make money with their films, both in the cinema and through licensing.

Is there any precedent at all for Lego having the rights to make sets based off a certain IP, but being disallowed from using certain media within that IP?

I can think of instances where Lego chose not to use bits of media they had the rights to (The Temple of Doom in the latest Indy wave, for example) but generally speaking they tend to be able to pretty well access the lot (certainly they've done sets from every Harry Potter film and every significant bit of Star Wars media in the last twenty-five years, and they covered all the Middle-Earth films at the time of the last full wave in 2013)

[zoth33]

12 minutes ago, Black Falcon said:

It will very likely depend on how good the sales of the two Sets we got are. Also more Big Sets doesn´t mean they will have to be that big, they could also do Sets in the 200€ range.

Such big sets usually tend to stay around longer than smaller ones, and, to compare it again with Harry Potter, there are 4 Sets in the 400-500€ Range avaiable, + a 300 one and this years Big set isn´t even included. That beeing said, for Lego it does seem to make sense.

I don´t see an issue there. Sure we don´t know how exactly that contract looks like, but it would surprise me if they wouldn´t be able to make sets for those if they would want to make them. In the end the Warner/New Line would have interest to make money with their films, both in the cinema and through licensing.

I think Lord of the Rings has more Places to display in the end than Harry Potter does. The Castle is the main place where most of the scenes happen, so naturally it will be included in every wave - though they also show different scenes even if they use the same rooms. But overall I would say that there is actually not that much real repetition as you would think would happen.

Anyways, one issue with Harry Potter IMO is that it has 3 main Characters and pretty much all Scenes in the Movies are about them, so they also are hugely presented in the films, wheras LotR has more main characters it can chooses from with less repetition among the sets from a wave.

I don't think you know how licensing works.  Just because they are releasing LOTR set doesn't mean Lego has the rights to any upcoming movies or video games to make sets off of.  

[R0Sch]

Reverse engineered the GWP. The only thing I didn't quite get right is the head. Maybe someone has an idea how it's built with the ball joint and studs on the sides. Studio file: 40693.io

[zoth33]

1 minute ago, Alexandrina said:

Is there any precedent at all for Lego having the rights to make sets based off a certain IP, but being disallowed from using certain media within that IP?

I can think of instances where Lego chose not to use bits of media they had the rights to (The Temple of Doom in the latest Indy wave, for example) but generally speaking they tend to be able to pretty well access the lot (certainly they've done sets from every Harry Potter film and every significant bit of Star Wars media in the last twenty-five years, and they covered all the Middle-Earth films at the time of the last full wave in 2013)

It all depends on the licensing agreement and what was agreed upon with Warner bros and the Tolkien estate.  We have no idea what it says but it would have to have been agreed upon to do sets from upcoming movies and since the gollum movies were just announced I'm not sure Lego has any rights to do sets off of those movies. 

[Black Falcon]

1 minute ago, zoth33 said:

I don't think you know how licensing works.  Just because they are releasing LOTR set doesn't mean Lego has the rights to any upcoming movies or video games to make sets off of.  

I don´t think you got what I meant. My point was, no matter if the Licensing they originally made when they started with Rivendell included possibilites to make smaller sets, or Sets based on anything else than the Lord of the Rings at all, it does seem unlikely to me that they wouldn´t get they licensing for those, if they wanted to have them. Warner and New Line are companies that need to make money and with big IPs Merchandising/Licensing doesn´t make a that small part of it IMO. Not to mention, that for new Films Sets also would also be advertising those.

[Darth Shadowthrone]

Here’s a pic of all four unique orc helmets - I honestly love the detail with the orcs, it’s leaps and bounds above the endless Mordor orcs which were reused in the og theme