3 hours ago, fhomess said:

Because that group is small and because of the Miller claim, I think it's really unlikely more than one of them is scum.  Just based on behavior at this point, I am inclined to think that any of them could be scum.  I did find Ellie a bit contradictory yesterday, but she hasn't really said anything since that is making me take a stronger stance against her.  Finn is being obstinate in his words, but not really his actions.  Mad-Eye is probably the one of that group that I suspect the strongest right now.  He just seems to be trying hard to convince us he's town.  Plus, his eye is creeping me out.

Vote: Mad-Eye Moody (mostlytechnic)

So being helpful now is scummy? Hm. 

2 hours ago, LegoMonorailFan said:

I'm more suspicious of batgirl at the moment so I'm going to vote...

Vote: Batgirl (Tariq J)

Like others, I would very much like to hear more from wonder woman.

Have a reason for that? Just "I'm suspicious" is hardly a reason.

2 hours ago, Asphalt said:

Vote: Mad-Eye Moody (mostlytechnic)

I agree that he seems to be trying to hard to convince people that he is town.  If you have a target on your back do you really want to work that much to point it out.

Also, I have a good vibe about Wonderwoman.  I know she has been pretty quiet, but we toasted over Fanta.  

Really, you're finding someone you trust already? 

1 hour ago, Forresto said:

I find the misuse of the term bandwagoning curiously effective at deflecting or diffusing away. 

Bandwagoning is unsubstantied voting in favor of whoever is leading votes or reasoning a vote by copying what others have said before. It’s a vote of appearances not of sequence. 

Voting for someone who already has votes isn’t automatically a bandwagon by default. 

(I subscribed to the forum for new topics and never get emailed. I didn’t even know day two had started so quickly, kudos Kintobor for keeping things moving)

So based on this (which I agree, bandwagon gets overused), does the Joker's vote on me count, since he's just parroting what chell already said? :) 

 

I'm going to 

Vote: Wonderwoman (forresto)

When the votes were piling up on Ellie yesterday, there were 4 votes in a row on her. Then a pause as a few votes went other ways. I think WW could have been trying to kick the voting back in her direction. 

1 hour ago, Bob said:

Some interesting votes straight off the bat. Once again the vote is being spread out with some going straight to Moody. I suppose I'm going to be a hypocrite though because I'm going to:

Vote: Hector Barbossa / Khscarymovie4

For fluffy posts, general unhelpfulness, trying to appear like he's making long posts. Is suddenly okay with the idea of a lynch today even though he was against a lynch yesterday. Not much has changed between today and yesterday besides the death of Legolas. If anything, to me, this is a repeat of Day One. There's no new helpful information. If you were against a lynch on Day One because of a lack of information, you should be against one on Day Two because of the same lack of information. This just seems like you're eager to get rid of someone without the baggage of a Day One lynch. 

Yeah I guess so, but usually you have a top list of people that you suspect. That's the list that I would have expected. 

As the clown prince of crime has said thanks for the nomination. Can't really defend myself against your first points as I have given what goes on inside me head. If you find giving original thoughts and spreading out the vote unhelpful then so be it. I would say following a bandwagon even if you disagree with it unhelpful, which I have not done yet others have. My opinions on lynches may have to coinside with my history. So far in every similar situation that thy has been in and had a first day boot, the town did not live to see the conclusion. Yet three times when we allowed all to live the town thrived. There is also the one time at that jury where a lynch was not present tell the third day, and the town lost. The history has day 1 lynches as bad for me. I find all they do is kill of people for little mistakes, in some situations we could be killing of important people for absolutely nothing. It once happened at a mansion that our dear admiral hosted. On the other hand continuing on tell the day of the 3rd sunlight without a lynch just lets the scum roam around taking us out slowly while we get no where. On day 2 I feel we have had more time to feel how everyone thinks. Day 1 has lots of the characters come out, while day 2 is when we really start getting down into the game. It may not always end with a good ending to the day but I still think it's good to get somewhere on day 3. Day 1 sets up the fire that burns for the rest of the journey, but you need all the matches for the fire. That's my way of looking at it. Also yes, complaining about spreading out votes just to do so yourself is very hypocritical. 

 

2 hours ago, Forresto said:

I find the misuse of the term bandwagoning curiously effective at deflecting or diffusing away. 

Bandwagoning is unsubstantied voting in favor of whoever is leading votes or reasoning a vote by copying what others have said before. It’s a vote of appearances not of sequence. 

Voting for someone who already has votes isn’t automatically a bandwagon by default. 

(I subscribed to the forum for new topics and never get emailed. I didn’t even know day two had started so quickly, kudos Kintobor for keeping things moving)

 

On 11/10/2018 at 2:07 PM, Forresto said:

I was going to wait for more discussion and eat cold pizza but given time is nearly up i’ll cast my vote.

The claim of a miller, whatever that is (I don’t think I’ve ever encountered such a role), on day one is a bold one. Such boldness could be seen as a ploy to hide in plain sight. 

I am unsure as to how we should react to Hera Syndulla (StickFig). 

Eliminating her would eliminate any doubt of her alligience. Would that be worth more to the town then risking she is what she claims and not scum?

I also am unsure of Ellie Sattler’s (LegoMonorail) “helpfulness”. In my mind that can either be benign or attempting to gain control of the situation. 

I believe in voting someone out on day one. It provides valuable data either way it turns out. Let’s also not pretend it’s mostly arbitrary. 

Hera has only two votes while Ellie has four. While I suspect Ellie more I must vote for who is more likely to be voted out for the above reasons. Therefore...

Ellie Sattler (LegoMonorailFan)

—

I’d like to amend a sentence with a logical fallacy. 

Eliminating Ellie Santiss would eliminate any doubt of her allegiance. Would eliminating her potential threat be more beneficial to the town then putting stock in her potential ability? Especially if it’s true that any investigation will only reveal her as scum even if she’s not?

Seems a very convenient disguise for scum to me.

You pretty much vote for Ellie just because she has the most votes. Your post makes it seem like you would rather vote for Hera. Though your wording at the "while I suspect Ellie more" has me confused a bit. You make it sound like you would rather vote for the person with less votes yet you put the name of the person with the most. What's this a mistake of names or did you suspect Ellie more? (Not trying to curse you for putting the wrong name or anything, but this is Mafia and names are important). I know it was day 1 and all but voting for someone just to knock them out is really unhelpful on day 1 when were just setting up the flames. To me this is very bandwagony. Though seeing your response on the lack of teeth chattering I can't blame you for that. (Stuff like that happens). 

Hopefully my "long, fluffy, qoutes post" doesn't annoy the false pirate too much we have to have another talk about who fluffs what again. 

28 minutes ago, mostlytechnic said:

Have a reason for that? Just "I'm suspicious" is hardly a reason.

Well I would say most of my suspicion stems from her (as I view it) attempt to reinstate the bandwagon against me early on in today, as well as the potential bandwagony nature of her vote as Khscarymovie4 has mentioned. However she's explained her actions pretty well in regards to my first suspicion IMO, so I'd be willing to let it go for now thereby putting her on a level playing field with wonder woman on the scummy level at the moment.

I also said yesterday I believe in voting someone off on day one and admitted that it’s going to be somewhat arbitrary no matter what given we have so little evidence of real scuminess. 

If we’re lucky it knocks out scum. If we’re unlucky it narrows down the crowd. Either way it gives us data we can use rather then idle suspicions. 

@Khscarymovie4 yeah rereading I flipped the names around. 

I voted for Ellie instead of Hera for three reasons.

1) Although I’m suspicious of her claim, Hera could actually be the miller. My final thought was to let the town investigator have a chance to see if she’s lying or telling the truth. Whether they did investigate her I don’t know. 

2) Ellie was overly helpful. Sure there are many reasons for that but it seems a covert way to guide people to making certain conclusions. 

3) Because Ellie had more votes. I felt if I voted for Hera it would split the vote and be ultimately a pointless gesture. As I do believe in a Day One Lynch. At that moment Ellie was closer and being that I already had my reservations chose her. 

I would like to add voting fifth on what people already were calling a bandwagon at the time seems a little like putting myself out there if I didn’t genuinely suspect Ellie. 

Talk to much suspicious, talk too little suspicious, talk about the weather suspicious.  Got it.  Anyone find the rules sheet to this boxed set?  I didn't get any in my check in swag bag.

But if we are in choice defense mode here goes.  Like I said before, I think  there is a good chance of scum hiding in the popular vote.  Mad-eye was in a popular vote, and has been very vocal about it.  It may be a shot in the dark, but on occasion those are bullseyes.  

4 hours ago, Forresto said:

1) Although I’m suspicious of her claim, Hera could actually be the miller. My final thought was to let the town investigator have a chance to see if she’s lying or telling the truth. Whether they did investigate her I don’t know. 

That's illogical.

Sorry, thought I was cosplaying a Vulcan for a second. But really, that statement makes no sense. Either Hera is scum, and would investigate as scum, or she's a miller, and would investigate as scum. Nothing for the investigator to check!

1 hour ago, mostlytechnic said:

That's illogical.

Sorry, thought I was cosplaying a Vulcan for a second. But really, that statement makes no sense. Either Hera is scum, and would investigate as scum, or she's a miller, and would investigate as scum. Nothing for the investigator to check!

Well I'm a Vulcan when I'm not cosplaying, so I can confirm that her statement was highly illogical. 

10 hours ago, Khscarymovie4 said:

Hopefully my "long, fluffy, qoutes post" doesn't annoy the false pirate too much we have to have another talk about who fluffs what again. 

I'll let it slide this time.  I also deleted from your quote when you said I was hypocritical for spreading out votes today while calling out people (and you in particular) for spreading out votes yesterday. Yes, this is true. I'm being a big hypocrite and I'm sorry. 

3 hours ago, Asphalt said:

Talk to much suspicious, talk too little suspicious, talk about the weather suspicious.  Got it.  Anyone find the rules sheet to this boxed set?  I didn't get any in my check in swag bag.

But if we are in choice defense mode here goes.  Like I said before, I think  there is a good chance of scum hiding in the popular vote.  Mad-eye was in a popular vote, and has been very vocal about it.  It may be a shot in the dark, but on occasion those are bullseyes.  

You'll learn quickly in mafia that you're damned if you do and damned if you don't when it comes to people suspecting you. Sometimes you're just screwed anyway you slice it. 

4 hours ago, mostlytechnic said:

That's illogical.

Sorry, thought I was cosplaying a Vulcan for a second. But really, that statement makes no sense. Either Hera is scum, and would investigate as scum, or she's a miller, and would investigate as scum. Nothing for the investigator to check!

Or she’s vanilla town using the title of miller to protect herself from being voted off.

 

16 minutes ago, Forresto said:

Or she’s vanilla town using the title of miller to protect herself from being voted off.

 

That's a 1000 times less likely to happen compared to a scum claiming miller. 

8 hours ago, Forresto said:

I also said yesterday I believe in voting someone off on day one and admitted that it’s going to be somewhat arbitrary no matter what given we have so little evidence of real scuminess. 

If we’re lucky it knocks out scum. If we’re unlucky it narrows down the crowd. Either way it gives us data we can use rather then idle suspicions. 

@Khscarymovie4 yeah rereading I flipped the names around. 

I voted for Ellie instead of Hera for three reasons.

1) Although I’m suspicious of her claim, Hera could actually be the miller. My final thought was to let the town investigator have a chance to see if she’s lying or telling the truth. Whether they did investigate her I don’t know. 

2) Ellie was overly helpful. Sure there are many reasons for that but it seems a covert way to guide people to making certain conclusions. 

3) Because Ellie had more votes. I felt if I voted for Hera it would split the vote and be ultimately a pointless gesture. As I do believe in a Day One Lynch. At that moment Ellie was closer and being that I already had my reservations chose her. 

I would like to add voting fifth on what people already were calling a bandwagon at the time seems a little like putting myself out there if I didn’t genuinely suspect Ellie. 

As other's have said your first point makes no since, weather she is the miller or scum she will still show up scum proving nothing. Also you could say that joining on the votes for Ellie was just as pointless as voting for Hera as you say. Did it lead to a day lynch? No. Was there ever a real possibility that it could turn into a lynch? With it being day 1 not really. Did it make an easy way for possible scummos to hide on day 1?  That's what were trying to find out. I feel had you voted for Hera it would have had the same chance of Ellie being vote out yesterday, which I was I don't understand why you decided to join the Ellie lynch on the main basis of you yo just wanted a lynch. There was an equal possibility for either to go had you placed your vote on Hera. It just makes you the smell of a scum to me. I don't recall Ellie being too overly helpful but I would like to hear your reasoning on that argument. Also at the present time do you still find Ellie scummy? Would you vote for her today? I'm not so sure why but I have not seen many votes on this here day. Maybe I have missed some but still I know there be some who have yet to take a stick and poke. Voting is important, not doing is bad for town. 

1 hour ago, Bob said:

I'll let it slide this time.  I also deleted from your quote when you said I was hypocritical for spreading out votes today while calling out people (and you in particular) for spreading out votes yesterday. Yes, this is true. I'm being a big hypocrite and I'm sorry. 

You'll learn quickly in mafia that you're damned if you do and damned if you don't when it comes to people suspecting you. Sometimes you're just screwed anyway you slice it. 

I will accept you apology if you say Captain Hector Barbossa is the greatest pirate who has ever sailed the seven seas. 

25 minutes ago, Forresto said:

Or she’s vanilla town using the title of miller to protect herself from being voted off.

 

Why would any townie do this? That is just unhelpful, and why would she do this when she is not in any near danger? I don't completely trust her either but this just sounds silly. 

8 minutes ago, Khscarymovie4 said:

I will accept you apology if you say Captain Hector Barbossa is the greatest pirate who has ever sailed the seven seas. 

Perhaps the greatest pirate who has ever sailed Earth's seven seas. I'll have you know I've sailed the many seas of the Galaxy and beyond! 

 

40 minutes ago, Forresto said:

Or she’s vanilla town using the title of miller to protect herself from being voted off.s

If that's the case then she deserves to be voted off. That's the worst thing a vanilla townie can do. You're not always necessarily meant to lay over and die, but you're not meant to false claim and worm you way out of a lynch that way. I don't know if that's likely. In any case the investigator should stay far away from her as she's likely being watched quite frequently. If it comes down to it and she's one of the few left and still unconfirmed we can just vote her off then. 

I'm not totally convinced on Ellie yet. I'm going to...

Vote: Wonderwoman (forresto)

Mainly for that idea a vanilla townie claimed miller.

@Khscarymovie4 If we're being entirely honest yesterday's vote for Ellie was mostly baseless. I believe in voting off on day one despite the risk factor of voting town out. It gives more data and information for how to vote the next day. 

I didn't understand the miller role until I just googled it. Its essentially a distraction role to throw an investigator off track, because they show as scum either way. To me that seems a brilliant disguise for scum to hide under. Now a day one claim could either be a bold move by the scum to hide under, a townie attempting to be dutiful and alert an investigator to what their search results might show ahead of time, or a townie attempting to hide in a role since scum would want to keep the miller around (to sow discord) and the town wouldn't want to vote off a loyal member of the block. Incredulous? Not as much as one may think.  

I believe in bold moves, risks be darned. A claim on day one is a bold move. 

The risk of scum hiding as the miller is enough for me to believe we should eliminate the potential threat immediately.

I made a mistake yesterday of not going with my gut, so...

Allow me to vote today how I should have voted yesterday.

Vote: Hera Syndulla (Stickfig)

~

I'd like to know how some of our quieter citizens feel, @StickFig, @Foreman, @Rider Raider, @Lady K, 

A vote for me seems the most popular at the current moment. 

2 hours ago, Forresto said:

Or she’s vanilla town using the title of miller to protect herself from being voted off.

 

why would she use a claim that sound super scummy to protect herself? are you two scum together, I've made my vote

Vote: Wonder Woman (Forresto)

And now after seeing you vote for Hera (I've posted before reading your vote) I think you're voting a fellow scum to hide the fact you're scum

5 minutes ago, Foreman said:

why would she use a claim that sound super scummy to protect herself? are you two scum together, I've made my vote

Vote: Wonder Woman (Forresto)

Now this seems like bandwagoning...

2 hours ago, Forresto said:

Or she’s vanilla town using the title of miller to protect herself from being voted off.

 

I doubt a vanilla townie would try and throw off the town just to protect herself. The goal of a vanilla Town is to help the town win, not to survive. It’s worth noting that Hera only claimed miller to try and get a discussion rolling, I don’t think she was trying to plan anything huge here.

 

38 minutes ago, Forresto said:

I didn't understand the miller role until I just googled it. Its essentially a distraction role to throw an investigator off track, because they show as scum either way. To me that seems a brilliant disguise for scum to hide under. Now a day one claim could either be a bold move by the scum to hide under, a townie attempting to be dutiful and alert an investigator to what their search results might show ahead of time, or a townie attempting to hide in a role since scum would want to keep the miller around (to sow discord) and the town wouldn't want to vote off a loyal member of the block. Incredulous? Not as much as one may think.  

The issue with scum posing as a Miller theory, is that it would rely on quite a few stokes of luck, that is no rolecop in the game to validate the claim, that the scum is not caught targeting another player by the tracker/watcher (if there are any in the game that is). Bold moves can happen, and have happened in the past, but this seems almost too wild to pull off. I feel Hera’s claim may have also been some sort of an attempt to start a PR/town block maybe? Hera dose t technically have a “role” since the miller doesn’t physically perform any night actions, but still. 

2 minutes ago, Tariq j said:

I doubt a vanilla townie would try and throw off the town just to protect herself. The goal of a vanilla Town is to help the town win, not to survive. It’s worth noting that Hera only claimed miller to try and get a discussion rolling, I don’t think she was trying to plan anything huge here.

The issue with scum posing as a Miller theory, is that it would rely on quite a few stokes of luck, that is no rolecop in the game to validate the claim, that the scum is not caught targeting another player by the tracker/watcher (if there are any in the game that is). Bold moves can happen, and have happened in the past, but this seems almost too wild to pull off. I feel Hera’s claim may have also been some sort of an attempt to start a PR/town block maybe? Hera dose t technically have a “role” since the miller doesn’t physically perform any night actions, but still. 

I agree the potential a vanilla townie would disguise themselves as a miller is fairly low.

However let’s go with what you just said, Hera was/is trying to form a townblock. 

If she is scum what better way would there be to infiltrate the town bloc then to claim miller?

If anything I think at best Hera was warning any investigative roles to not waste their time and investigate her. 

Right now Hera is 50/50, Town/Scum. For the moment that’s enough incentive for me to vote for her. 

15 hours ago, mostlytechnic said:

So being helpful now is scummy? Hm. 

Where did I say you were being helpful?  I don't recall saying that.  You're the one who's been saying that:

"Look how helpful I am!"

"Don't look at my creepy eye..."

3 hours ago, Bob said:

You'll learn quickly in mafia that you're damned if you do and damned if you don't when it comes to people suspecting you. Sometimes you're just screwed anyway you slice it. 

Hear hear!

1 minute ago, Forresto said:

I agree the potential a vanilla townie would disguise themselves as a miller is fairly low.

However let’s go with what you just said, Hera was/is trying to form a townblock. 

If she is scum what better way would there be to infiltrate the town bloc then to claim miller?

If anything I think at best Hera was warning any investigative roles to not waste their time and investigate her. 

Right now Hera is 50/50, Town/Scum. For the moment that’s enough incentive for me to vote for her. 

Aren't we all 50/50?  I would think by now you would vote for someone you have a stronger feeling on than a coin flip.  Or do you think ALL the rest of us are more likely town than scum?

@fhomess I don't trust @StickFig or @Forresto right now, so that's who I'm voting

StickFig because of her miller claim, and Forresto for saying a vanilla town might claim miller, or any non-miller town would claim miller

25 minutes ago, Foreman said: right now, so that's who I'm voting

or any non-miller town would claim miller

Why is thinking that simply as a possibility suspicious enough to warrant a vote? 

You’ve been coasting with small fluffy responses this entire game and give bandwagony reasoning for your vote.

@fhomess the miller claim is what pushes her past 50/50 for me. 

 

Honestly for the above reasons I’m switching my vote.

Unvote: Hera Syndulla (Stickfig)

Vote: Finn (Foreman) 

You are absolutely joining in on a bandwagon as is Oroku. 

At least most of the others who have voted for me have provided good reasons.

Finn’s and Oroku’s reasons seem flimsy at best. 

 

 

4 hours ago, Forresto said:

Or she’s vanilla town using the title of miller to protect herself from being voted off.

Wait, what? Like any vanilla townie, my win condition is simple: Town wins, I win. I just happen to investigate as scum. I'm not worried about dying, I just want town to win.

-----

Third vote on the Ellie push yesterday.
Vote: Chell (fhomess)

@KotZ, you voted for Forresto yesterday without a reason, and today ...without a reason.

@Forresto, you start getting votes and the best thing you can think of doing is claim it's a bandwagon. Why should we believe you're not scum?

 

1 hour ago, Tariq j said:

The issue with scum posing as a Miller theory, is that it would rely on quite a few stokes of luck, that is no rolecop in the game to validate the claim, that the scum is not caught targeting another player by the tracker/watcher (if there are any in the game that is). Bold moves can happen, and have happened in the past, but this seems almost too wild to pull off. I feel Hera’s claim may have also been some sort of an attempt to start a PR/town block maybe? Hera dose t technically have a “role” since the miller doesn’t physically perform any night actions, but still. 

I don't think there's any rolecop that could confirm a miller claim.  Correction, I just googled and the normal rolecop does return the subject's role like that. I can't recall ever having one around, so I wasn't familiar with it. 

1 hour ago, Forresto said:

I agree the potential a vanilla townie would disguise themselves as a miller is fairly low.

However let’s go with what you just said, Hera was/is trying to form a townblock. 

If she is scum what better way would there be to infiltrate the town bloc then to claim miller?

If anything I think at best Hera was warning any investigative roles to not waste their time and investigate her. 

Right now Hera is 50/50, Town/Scum. For the moment that’s enough incentive for me to vote for her. 

If the scum want to infiltrate the block, miller is NOT the way to do it. If I'm in the block I'm never letting a miller in at all, unless we've got a rolecop that can actually verify the miller role. Otherwise, there's no reason to trust them. You're right though, claiming miller is a message to the investigative roles. That's why the recommendation on how to play it is to claim immediately. 

19 hours ago, fhomess said:

Mad-Eye is probably the one of that group that I suspect the strongest right now.  He just seems to be trying hard to convince us he's town.  Plus, his eye is creeping me out.

Vote: Mad-Eye Moody (mostlytechnic)

 

58 minutes ago, fhomess said:

Where did I say you were being helpful?  I don't recall saying that.  You're the one who's been saying that:

"Look how helpful I am!"

"Don't look at my creepy eye..."

See above - when you voted for me, that's when you accused me of being too helpful. At least that's how I interpreted your accusation of being "too towny" and therefore must be scum 

19 minutes ago, StickFig said:

Wait, what? Like any vanilla townie, my win condition is simple: Town wins, I win. I just happen to investigate as scum. I'm not worried about dying, I just want town to win.

-----

Third vote on the Ellie push yesterday.
Vote: Chell (fhomess)

@KotZ, you voted for Forresto yesterday without a reason, and today ...without a reason.

@Forresto, you start getting votes and the best thing you can think of doing is claim it's a bandwagon. Why should we believe you're not scum?

 

Three votes against me have valid and persuasive reasoning. The last two votes against me happened back to back and as follows...

3 hours ago, KotZ said:

I'm not totally convinced on Ellie yet. I'm going to...

Vote: Wonderwoman (forresto)

Mainly for that idea a vanilla townie claimed miller.

 

2 hours ago, Foreman said:

why would she use a claim that sound super scummy to protect herself? are you two scum together, I've made my vote

Vote: Wonder Woman (Forresto)

And now after seeing you vote for Hera (I've posted before reading your vote) I think you're voting a fellow scum to hide the fact you're scum

 

Shallow reasoning for the guy with the most votes. That doesn’t mean either are scum but it doesn’t make them look good.

I might add as the fifth voter for Ellie whose been lambasted all day for being apart of a bandwagon, it’s be a double standard to not consider either of the two above with at least the same suspicion. 

hey no reasonable vanilla town would ever claim miller