42100 Liebherr R9800 Excavator

[kbalage]

19 minutes ago, Maaboo35 said:

I heard it was due to problems with CONTROL+ itself.

According to this article the other sets are still scheduled for August so if they had issues with Control+ that should affect 42099 as well.

[Maaboo the Witch]

5 minutes ago, kbalage said:

According to this article the other sets are still scheduled for August so if they had issues with Control+ that should affect 42099 as well.

It might yet do. Or maybe it's due to the setup in 42100 that the problems have arisen. 42099's system is likely simpler. For instance, getting a car or off-roader to drive about is pretty elementary compared to getting an R9800 to work.

Edited May 7, 2019 by Maaboo35

[nerdsforprez]

46 minutes ago, Ngoc Nguyen said:

XL LA is also present in the spider crane, which is due for release in August.

Source?

[Ngoc Nguyen]

Just now, nerdsforprez said:

Source?

Myself?

[pleegwat]

1 hour ago, allanp said:

Interesting. According to the article the delay is due to some parts taking longer to produce. I wonder if it's the control+ elements, some of those are also in the 4x4 SUV thingy, but no mention of that being delayed also. Could it be the bucket or the LAs? Those seem like comparatively simple parts to make compared to the control+ elements. Anyway, better to delay and get it right than release it before it's ready.

I could also imagine the 7x11 frames being more prone to breaking under stress than they're comfortable with.

[nerdsforprez]

35 minutes ago, Ngoc Nguyen said:

Myself?

Oh I was not sure if you saw a pic or had another source.  Another user in the 2019 thread quoted you and so it looks like your claim is being taken as gospel.  Not that I doubt it, just wondered if you had something to refer others to so they could see/read for themselves. 

[MajklSpajkl]

If my german is any good, I understood thecarticle in a way that due to very busy production lines with many other new sets released, certain parts for the Liebherr won't be produced fast enough in big enough quantities to release it on worldwide scale in august. I didn't read anything about problems with parts themselves... feels a bit strange that just 2 months before the release and after so many tests some would be wrong with the parts...although it did happen before in the past (weak LAs)

Edited May 7, 2019 by MajklSpajkl

[Timorzelorzworz]

Powered Up and Control+

Yesterday I had an interesting conversation with TLG customer service due Powered Up and the upcoming Control+. They said "we plan to bring all systems together in the near future" and that Control+ is simple just the name of the new app to control models for Technic, not the name of the new system itself. This means that anything is based on Powered Up and its protocol an we can expect these new hubs an motors as new parts in the PU-lineup especially for Technic. The reason for this is simple: It gives builders the possibility to control and program all electrical parts with just one app - and this is the Powered Up app which is already available und updated for programming yet. When you have a closer look to its programming mode, you can see ports A to D are available 'cause Boost needs this, but it opens the opportunity to program the new upcoming 4-port-hub with the Powered Up app, 'cause all is Powered Up under the hood. Vice versa this means that sensors can be attached to the new hub too, which opens incredible models for Technic in the near future. The actual firmware of each hub ist the only important thing that all works together fine. All in all we can expect with 42100 (and 42099) just new components in the Powered Up lineup for more possibilities (4 ports means more to do simultanously). Control+, Boost and upcooming Boost Star Wars are all own apps with own names to control Powered Up components for the special playing scenario to avoid overloading the Powered Up app itself (too much entries on home screen for example). Or in another words, Control+ is one app to control Powered Up for Technic.

Just one thing to say: As we can see in previous pics, one hub of 42100 is located in the upper structure ane the another one in the lower structure. This means that the lower hub drives booth tracks and has one motor attached to rotate the superstructure. The four motors attached to the upper hub are only to control the arm and bucket (4 functions in sum). The lower hub has one port spare. Because the lower compact structure have to house one hub and 3 motors, we can not expect the motors as big as mindstorms etc but normal motors like PF L or XL. Remember that we already have PU-M from Batmobil, which works fine with each hub.

The delay of the launch could be due problems of production. This would explain why another PU components are late at S@H 

Edited May 8, 2019 by Timorzelorzworz

[Johnny1360]

Well that certainly clears up everything for me, thank you very much. 

[kbalage]

58 minutes ago, Timorzelorzworz said:

They said "we plan to bring all systems together in the near future" and that Control+ is simple just the name of the new app to control models for Technic, not the name of the new system itself. This means that anything is based on Powered Up and its protocol an we can expect these new hubs an motors as new parts in the PU-lineup especially for Technic.

I thought that was obvious but apparently Lego needs to work on their communication :) Every new member of the PU family (Boost, Powered Up, Spike Prime) uses the same connectors and the same protocol and can potentially work together, it all depends on the app. The terminology can be confusing because they use the term Powered Up for the whole family of products but the "City" variant of the hub and the app is also called Powered Up. 

[Timorzelorzworz]

12 minutes ago, kbalage said:

it all depends on the app. The terminology can be confusing because they use the term Powered Up for the whole family of products but the "City" variant of the hub and the app is also called Powered Up

It depends on the firmware of the hub. The app is just the controller to send commands to the hub wich must have the correct firmware that everything works together. The terminology is indeed confusing. We can expect the own Powered Up app as the "uber app" to controll and (more important) program all components. I think we will see the name Powered Up only in City and in future trains. The problem is that with every release of new set (in this case a new train) the app needs an update for the screen. This is why TLG produce separte apps for their own tasks (Control+, Boost app). Btw Prime is its only thing like Mindstorm and not PU compatible, or in other words not part of Powered Up. This is what I have understood in the chat with TLG. Maybe we will see new Mindstorms based on Prime platform in the future. This would explain the other design of motors, but this is my only interpretation

Edited May 8, 2019 by Timorzelorzworz

[kbalage]

19 minutes ago, Timorzelorzworz said:

It depends on the firmware of the hub. The app is just the controller to send commands to the hub wich must have the correct firmware that everything works together.

I'd say both of them needed :) It was possible to use the Boost sensors with the Powered Up hub already before the latest firmware/app update with 3rd party applications like Scratch, so it was a limitation of the Lego app. It is still artificially limited what motors/sensors you can use in the different applications, e.g. you can only use 1 train motor / 1 light with the train app while it could be easily possible (and needed) to control 2 train motors. 

A cleanup and clarification is definitely needed on the app side as there'll be more and more variations released, like the new Star Wars version of the Boost app for the Robot set. I expect to see the Powered Up app as the container for the set-specific sub-applications in the City theme and the Control+ app to be similar for Technic. For 42100 the Control+ needs to have the ability to control multiple hubs the same time so that'll be a nice extra. 

I'm not sure which version will have customisation options, probably the Control+ one, hopefully they won't release another separate app for that :) There's definitely a need for a "pro" interface that can be customised and has the ability to connect to all different hubs and use all motors/lights/sensors.

[Timorzelorzworz]

6 minutes ago, kbalage said:

For 42100 the Control+ needs to have the ability to control multiple hubs the same time so that'll be a nice extra. 

The statemant says "performing multiple movements". This does not mean that the Control+ app can send commands to more than one hub at the same time. The Powered Up app also has the possibility to bind more than one hub, but only one hub can be active. Hubs are autonom and for 42100 this would mean that either controlling lower structure (driving) or controlling upper structure (digging) is possible, but not booth at the same time. The statemant "performing multiple movements" does not mean to control multiple hubs, but it means to control up to 4 functions of one bound hub at the same time with a need to switch the hubs like the Powered Up app does. The good point is that it seems to be possible to program the new 4-port-hub with PU app unless the Control+ app has initial no function of programming. There is no need to update the PU app here cause the programming an icons for hubs and motors are already there. I think the Control+ app has initial 2 menu's on screen - one for 42100 and one for 42099 but there is no programming nor "pro" mode. It is rather an app to control the models and give hints about that.

[kbalage]

11 minutes ago, Timorzelorzworz said:

The statemant says "performing multiple movements". This does not mean that the Control+ app can send commands to more than one hub at the same time. The Powered Up app also has the possibility to bind more than one hub, but only one hub can be active.

That'd be a huge mistake if there wouldn't be a simultaneous connection to the two hubs. Currently with the PU app you can see more hubs the same time in the connection menu but you need to disconnect from the connected one to be able to connect to the other one, that's far from being practical as it is not a simple switch between the hubs.

As the hubs can be named and identified I see no reason why they wouldn't implement this in the application, the inputs/outputs simply need another layer of identification. Instead of "port A" you could select "hub A - port A". Same goes for the programming interface - currently a simple motor block has two options, port and speed. Simply add a 3rd option to select the proper hub from a list of connected devices and that's it.

[Timorzelorzworz]

The Nürnberg demo shows the model only driving or digging, but not all functions together at the sime time. It also shows some interfaces of the app what is possible to play with. When you go to interface "driving", the lower hub is selected from the list and becomes active. The same for digging mode. The interfaces shown had no control of all 7 functions together. It is rather a control of "select what you currently want to play". For a pro version of Control+ (or PU) app, binding more hubs together or give better icons in programming are absolutely indispensable, but for the launch of Control+ I did not expect such a high level.

[kbalage]

If I check this image for me it seems to have all controls on a single interface. The two upper sliders control the tracks, in the center that's the speed probably with the two smaller tilt indicators and there're two joysticks in the lower half. Technically you need your two thumbs to control the tracks so you probably won't start to fiddle with the lower joysticks the same time but I don't see why it couldn't be a parallel connection to both hubs. And as it was briefly shown you can also use program blocks to control the machine so in that case it should be possible to create a sequence that moves both the tracks and the arm/bucket the same time.

 

[Timorzelorzworz]

good investigation - we will see whats coming. The interface on the smartdevice looks a bit overloaded on this pic. Two or more hubs connected together would be nice indeed, but I do not understand why this is not implemented in the Powered Up app yet. With the last update this app looks final in terms of playability and programming for future use, so it's weird why there is no dual hub connection implemented 

[kbalage]

Yes we'll see, until then it's only speculation :) Multi-hub support is needed I agree but with the current app only the train and the programming interface could use it. I miss more the ability to create custom control interfaces, since the hubs and motors can be purchased now separately. Until it's not possible to create a custom control interface no one will start using the PU elements in their own creations. Even the new programming interface is half baked, there's not a single slider or joystick so you can only create fully programmed sequences.

[Timorzelorzworz]

7 minutes ago, kbalage said:

Until it's not possible to create a custom control interface

yes, I saw this critism in your video. The Batmobile-Interface did a good job here I think. The system is mainly provided for kids, which loves to play with tracked vehicles for example. The interface of the batmobile solves this "problem" cause it can drives two motors running in opposite direction. This makes it very easy to build own tracked vehicles and play with it using the batmobile interface...

My TLG customer contact said that the Powered Up app will be always improved and that many customers ask for this feature (to drive or program more than one train/hub). So it is possible that the PU app becomes an update with this feature and Control+ uses it as well

[ctx1769]

They might have the strength of the large bucket /shovel might have a weakness in the design and might involve a slight redesign.

That's just a guess, but it's a one off part on an expensive set.

[Toastie]

11 hours ago, kbalage said:

Multi-hub support is needed I agree but with the current app only the train and the programming interface could use it. I miss more the ability to create custom control interfaces, since the hubs and motors can be purchased now separately.

Did anyone follow the stuff happening in TrainTech?

Controlling multiple hubs is not only possible, but is essentially built into the approach of using Bluetooth LE communication. Just because the LEGO app is not providing such functionality means next to nothing. I have no clue who and how many people are involved in developing this app - but seeing what is possible elsewhere is more than breathtaking. 

Even I (and that means a lot - I am nowhere near any programming gurus) can control 5+ hubs at the same time using stone-age VB6 along with an appropriate ActiveX control for the Win10 BLE stack.

Best regards,
Thorsten

    

[HRU_Bricks]

On 5/9/2019 at 6:20 AM, Toastie said:

Did anyone follow the stuff happening in TrainTech?

Controlling multiple hubs is not only possible, but is essentially built into the approach of using Bluetooth LE communication. Just because the LEGO app is not providing such functionality means next to nothing. I have no clue who and how many people are involved in developing this app - but seeing what is possible elsewhere is more than breathtaking. 

Even I (and that means a lot - I am nowhere near any programming gurus) can control 5+ hubs at the same time using stone-age VB6 along with an appropriate ActiveX control for the Win10 BLE stack.

Best regards,
Thorsten

    

Are you referring to the Brick Automation  Project? If you are it is a great little app that demonstrates you can run multiple hubs. 

It will be up to Lego and if they decide to create the featurewithin there apps. 

Each hub has it's own address so it is possible 

Edited May 8, 2019 by HRU_Bricks

[dr_spock]

12 hours ago, kbalage said:

Yes we'll see, until then it's only speculation :) Multi-hub support is needed I agree but with the current app only the train and the programming interface could use it. I miss more the ability to create custom control interfaces, since the hubs and motors can be purchased now separately. Until it's not possible to create a custom control interface no one will start using the PU elements in their own creations. Even the new programming interface is half baked, there's not a single slider or joystick so you can only create fully programmed sequences.

LEGO has published their protocols which can help to create your own stuff to go beyond the limitations of the LEGO supplied apps.  Lots of technical stuff happening over in the train forum like:

https://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?/forums/topic/162288-powered-up-a-tear-down/

https://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?/forums/topic/169318-control-all-your-powered-up-power-function-sbrick-devices-with-a-single-software/

https://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?/forums/topic/168975-documenting-the-lego-poweredup-system/

 

[kbalage]

10 hours ago, Toastie said:

Did anyone follow the stuff happening in TrainTech?Controlling multiple hubs is not only possible, but is essentially built into the approach of using Bluetooth LE communication. Just because the LEGO app is not providing such functionality means next to nothing.

I know the Brick Automation Project,I think that's a great application but mostly for trains at the moment and it requires a PC for control. I also use 3rd party applications like the great BrickController 2 app, I can use that to control multiple devices the same time (even mixed types) with a game controller so I know there's no any technical limitation to create multi-hub control.

What I was trying to formulate previously - Lego introduced the Powered Up system but only gave us set-specific applications so far, which was more or less fine considering the target audience of those sets (except of the hardcore train fans). When the Technic line gets the Powered Up treatment with Control+ it will be very important to have a native application that is flexible enough to show people why it is good to switch to Powered Up from Power Functions, and that has to show abilities beyond the basic set-specific controls.

[Timorzelorzworz]

Amen to that. Everyone who is interested in PU-train-topic should notice that TLG is working on multi hub support for their trains for the official PU app. That is what the customer support said. And even it is possible, we will see this in Control+ app.

Edited May 9, 2019 by Timorzelorzworz