42100 Liebherr R9800 Excavator

[TeamThrifty]

UK will get a rough deal due to the weak pound... just another consequence of the very silly brexit.. If it start with £4xx i won't be getting it, it needs to be low to mid £3's at the most for me. And i'm a fan of big sets, but i have to justify the expense to myself

[Maaboo the Witch]

1 hour ago, TeamThrifty said:

UK will get a rough deal due to the weak pound... just another consequence of the very silly brexit.. If it start with £4xx i won't be getting it, it needs to be low to mid £3's at the most for me. And i'm a fan of big sets, but i have to justify the expense to myself

It's called democracy, mate. Deal with it. 

Plus it wouldn't be "very silly" if we had a government that didn't have its collective head up its backside. And currencies fluctuate daily. 

Anyhoo, enough with the politics! Back to the Liebherr. Yeah, it'll most likely be £400 or over from what I've heard. With the CONTROL+ components which have driven 42099's price into the ceiling and those 4000+ parts, I'd be surprised if it wasn't £500. 

[TeamThrifty]

£400+ is beyond my self imposed limit which is a shame as the model is great, but i can't justify that amount of spend to myself. I'll certainly buy the new parts once they come available, but i always get lego at xmas.. so i need to buy something!!

(our system is based on representative democracy, this was a divergence into direct democracy which is less effective - but you're right, we've idiots in government, plus a lunatic Marxist in opposition..  )

 

[Anio]

2 hours ago, TeamThrifty said:

it needs to be low to mid £3's at the most

Quite unlikely.

[coinoperator]

1 hour ago, Maaboo35 said:

£400 or over

If you're lucky and still in the EU at the time of release you can buy it for the annouced €449 here.
Maybe less at shops like misterbricks that has very good prices on the larger sets.
After the bollocks you probably get import taxes on your (beep)

[Bartybum]

1 hour ago, coinoperator said:

If you're lucky and still in the EU at the time of release you can buy it for the annouced €449 here.

Oh hey if that's the cost including the 19% VAT in Germany, then it might only be $700AUD Guess we gon' find out

Edited June 18, 2019 by Bartybum

[HRU_Bricks]

On 6/18/2019 at 7:02 PM, Bartybum said:

Oh hey if that's the cost including the 19% VAT in Germany, then it might only be $700AUD Guess we gon' find out

Well here is hoping it'll be 700AUD,  my money is on 800AUD and we'll get it 3 to 4 weeks after everyone else

[TeamThrifty]

2 hours ago, Anio said:

Quite unlikely.

I know...

 

2 hours ago, coinoperator said:

probably get import taxes

Yep, you're right.

I can see it should be expensive - its got 2 hubs and 7 motors, 4000 pieces and is licenced. I can see its not a cheap set, but over £400? I'm very pro big sets and accept the price tag that comes with them, but even from my positive default position, i'm struggling with that price. I'm sure there's a lot of market research gone into it and they wouldn't pitch it there if it was doomed to fail. I build sets once, and they stay built for a couple of months at the most, then i take them to bits for the parts for moc's. I know some people display a set rather than dismantle, so maybe when its sat somewhere for a couple of years, £400 for a display item (piece of art?) seems more reasonable

Maybe i'll be pleasantly surprised!? RRP of £360 and discounted to £280?!! 

[Bartybum]

34 minutes ago, HRU_Bricks said:

Well here is hoping it'll be 700AUD,  my money is on 800AUD and we'll get it 3 to 4 weeks after everyone else

Rationally thinking I can't even expect it to beyond $800AUD. I'll use 42082 and 42055 as examples, since both of these 4k Technic sets have had generous price points, probably because of part count scaling. Hence, I'd suspect the same can be applied here:

They were both $400 for ~4k pieces (42100 has roughly the same piece count), but that was including a ~$15 battery box and ~$20 XL motor, so without them we'd be looking at ~$370.

The new Control+ hub is a combined battery box and receiver, so the combined PF equivalent of that is ~$45. Times two, we have $90 for both hubs.

The PF equivalents for the Control+ motors in the set are all ~$20. Seven of those make $140.

That's a combined electronic cost of something like $230, which I'd safely say we can add on another $100-120 because of the smartphone app and more advanced electronics in the motors, for a total of $350 for the electronics.

Add all that up and we get a total of $720, pretty smack bang in the middle of $700-750. I have no idea what the licensing fee could be, but I'd sure as hell hope Liebherr is generous enough that it wouldn't take the cost over $800.

Since Bugatti pulled that stint with the $500 and $600 price tags for the 911 and Chiron, I'm really worried they'll use this opportunity to yank the price up another $100 because why the hell not.

Edited June 18, 2019 by Bartybum

[HRU_Bricks]

6 minutes ago, Bartybum said:

Rationally thinking I can't even expect it to beyond $800AUD. I'll use 42082 and 42055 as examples, since both of these 4k Technic sets have had generous price points, probably because of part count scaling. Hence, I'd suspect the same can be applied here:

They were both $400 for ~4k pieces (42100 has roughly the same piece count), but that was including a ~$15 battery box and ~$20 XL motor, so without them we'd be looking at ~$370.

The new Control+ hub is a combined battery box and receiver, so the combined PF equivalent of that is ~$45. Times two, we have $90 for both hubs.

The PF equivalents for the Control+ motors in the set are all ~$20. Seven of those make $140.

That's a combined electronic cost of something like $230, which I'd safely say we can add on another $100-120 because of the smartphone app and more advanced electronics in the motors, for a total of $350 for the electronics.

Add all that up and we get a total of $720, pretty smack bang in the middle of $700-750. I have no idea what the licensing fee could be, but I'd sure as hell hope Liebherr is generous enough that it wouldn't take the cost over $800.

Since Bugatti pulled that stint with the $500 and $600 price tags for the 911 and Chiron, I'm really worried they'll use this opportunity to yank the price up another $100 because why the hell not.

The Control Plus Hub is more like 2x the standard Powered UP hub with 2 out puts - 88009 that is AUD 79 each so that's 150 in controllers alone.

The new L motors in the 42100 would be along the lines of 88008 medium more at 27.99 each so that is AUD 112.

The large motors will be a little bit more expensive lets say 35 each so that's 105 AUD.

150+112+35=297. Now lets keep the 30 in for licencing and call the parts and licence 400. 400+297=697, then you need to add the app development costs which would be high (cheaper to develop a set then an app!). The ROI would be at least 50-100 per set (say 75). So that brings the 42100 to 772 AUD. That's my bet.

I do hope you are right and not me!

[coinoperator]

16 minutes ago, HRU_Bricks said:

30 in for licencing

I don't think they pay anything for "licence"

Liebherr, a wellknown name in refrigerators and much more consumer products will be glad to see their brandname around.

[Anio]

52 minutes ago, TeamThrifty said:

Maybe i'll be pleasantly surprised!? RRP of £360 and discounted to £280?!! 

Discounted at 280£ on Amazon a few months after release, I think that's totally a possibility.

[Bartybum]

10 hours ago, coinoperator said:

I don't think they pay anything for "licence"

Liebherr, a wellknown name in refrigerators and much more consumer products will be glad to see their brandname around.

But Lego is making a product riding off the popularity of the Liebherr name. It can go either way really, who knows.

[CSX9992]

has the USD amount been announced yet?

[incognito]

Lego confirmed they are paying even Vestas(!) for the license.

Of course Liebherr is getting paid for the license, why wouldn't they? It's on of the the biggest name when it comes to construction machines. The argument of "free advertisement" could be made for any brand (maybe except Ferrari, Porsche and Bugatti etc.). 

 

Edited June 19, 2019 by incognito

[Maaboo the Witch]

29 minutes ago, incognito said:

Of course Liebherr is getting paid for the license, why wouldn't they? It's the biggest name when it comes to construction machines.

Caterpillar, JCB, Terex, Komatsu, Manitou, Bobcat, New Holland and John Deere are all pretty big as well. I'd say a lot of them are bigger than Liebherr.

[incognito]

7 minutes ago, Maaboo35 said:

Caterpillar, JCB, Terex, Komatsu, Manitou, Bobcat, New Holland and John Deere are all pretty big as well. I'd say a lot of them are bigger than Liebherr.

yes, you are right, in terms of revenue there are bigger ones, but Liebherr has alot "world records", for example biggest mining excavator or biggest  crawler crane. So let's say "one of the biggest", but that doesn't change my argument.

[Maaboo the Witch]

Just now, incognito said:

yes, you are right, in terms of revenue there are bigger ones, but Liebherr has alot "world records", for example biggest mining excavator or biggest  crawler crane. So let's say "one of the biggest", but that doesn't change my argument.

No, no it doesn't. Of course TLG have to pay for the Liebherr license as it is indeed massive. Otherwise surely nearly every set would be licensed if TLG didn't have to pay anything.

[Thirdwigg]

Do we know that TLG pays a license for any of these sets, or just assume so?

[Bartybum]

2 minutes ago, Thirdwigg said:

Do we know that TLG pays a license for any of these sets, or just assume so?

We have good reason to assume it costs TLG money

[andythenorth]

I'll bet you Liebherr are paying TLG, in 'co-marketing contribution'.  But the argument is getting kind of old, it comes up in quite a few of threads. 

Edited June 19, 2019 by andythenorth

[Anio]

I know for fact that TLG didn't pay any license to Caterham to release 21307.

Caterham was glad to have its brand promoted by a Lego product and so didn't ask for any other compensation.

Excepted on product where license is a huge part of the design (42083, 42056, some Ferrari sets and some other brand here and there, in Speed Champions for example), I think it is safe to say that there is generally no financial compensation but just a win-win partnership.

Take 42100, remove licensed stuff, change a few details, and bingo : you have a regular mining excavator.

To be more specific, the idea behind a Liebherr excavator and a Bugatti Chiron is totally different when it comes to a Lego product.

When you do 42083, you do the Bugatti Chiron, which by the way is a supercar.

But when you do 42100, you do a mining excavator, which by the way can be Liebherr licensed.

[incognito]

1 hour ago, Thirdwigg said:

Do we know that TLG pays a license for any of these sets, or just assume so?

It's a fact that they are paying Vestas for the 10268 Wind Turbine. 

 

[aol000xw]

For the Liebherr I understand, but if there was one thing that didn't need a license was a wind turbine.

There isn't even a real sense of the true scale. The Vestas could be any generic turbine, but you got to pay for the sticker I guess.

 

[hjxbf]

2 hours ago, aol000xw said:

For the Liebherr I understand, but if there was one thing that didn't need a license was a wind turbine.

There isn't even a real sense of the true scale. The Vestas could be any generic turbine, but you got to pay for the sticker I guess.

 

If the original set was commissioned by Vestas a Christmas gift for its employees, LEGO probably charged for the design at that time.

Now that LEGO are profiting off of that, a modest "licence" fee per set could be a convenient way for Vestas and LEGO to even out the profit/costs between themselves.

I doubt it has much to do with the brand itself.