Obsession with build times

[HeresJohnnny]

Hi All

Rare poster, avid reader of this forum. As a (what I would call) intermediate lego builder I had an interesting conversation the other day with a guy who has just returned to lego technic as an adult. He had picked up at reasonable prices 42009 and 42082. Having been signed off work for a month he thought this would be a good time to get back into lego technic. The conversation went along the lines of "do you have 42009 and 42082?" I told him I did and that they were both interesting builds, He asked how long each one took me to build, I asked why. He said that he had read that 42009 was a 10-13 hour build and 42082 was 15-18 hour build and that it had taken him over double these times. When thinking about how to reply, I realised this would be a good post on this site, hopefully!

It appears in some circles people have become obsessed with build tmes and the faster the better the builder. As I explained to my friend; firstly, even though he built technic as a kid, he's returning as a a fairly new builder because lego technic has come a long way in 30 years so build times would be slower. Secondly, I believe alot of people when they buy a set (especially a big set) open it up, get the instruction manual out and follow it step by step without actually learning the different/new processes that that build offers. This is why I believe many folks would struggle if you asked them to moc up vehicle with gears/motors/actuators etc, they have never learned the fundamentals of technic building. Lastly, I asked if the sets were new, and he said no, they came in a box with all pieces lose. I explained that they could add upto 50% to build time having to sort through looking for pieces. I then sent him photos of my lego area (drawers for different pieces, dedicated desk and trays etc).

I wriite this piece because I think its inportant to highlight why we build. I build for fun yes and a hobby but I want to learn the techniques so I can apply them when I build off topic (without a manual).  Again and again I read post saying "built so and so and this wont work or that won't worK" if people when they built these big sets worked out what gear was doing what or how this affected that as they built they a) wouldnt make these mistakes and b) if they did they could figure out why the problem occured.

So my advice to new builders is slow down, enjoy the  build and at each step learn why you are putting this gear here or that axle there. You will enjoy your build more, learn more and become a better builder, and if you want to start creating mocs you will have the skills to do it well. What are peoples thoughts on this? Or am I talking bricks?

[Maaboo the Witch]

Well said! Slowing down allows you to check mechanisms as well and make sure everything is working properly.

[LucyCol]

It takes as long as it takes, I never see the need to rush a build.

[grum64]

Ah, you see I’ve been doing it right all the time  

[Johnny1360]

I build painfully slow, so much so that occasionally I make little side builds out of the parts from the set I am currently building, just to see how different pieces can be assembled. Not really a whole different MOC, just sticking a few parts together. 

I do though on occasion however buy small sets just for parts. I usually speed build them then tear them down and bin the parts. 

[suffocation]

I wonder what his wife thinks.

[Erik Leppen]

When I build sets, I build for relaxation.

I don't hurry. After all, 10 hours build is 10 hours of fun, 20 hours build is 20 hours of fun :D So I take my time. That said, I still sometimes have difficulty splitting a build up into multiple sessions. If I start, I want to go on until it's done. With the Chiron I couldn't, so I split the build in 2 days, but it still feels rather quick for such a large set.

I take my time when i add a specific part, wondering what it will be later. Although for experienced builders, there aren't that many surprises, especially when we have already seen images, reviews or instructions of the set in question. For some reason I can't not read those.

All that said, I do get why reviews etc. specify build times, even if only for reference.

1 hour ago, HeresJohnnny said:

Again and again I read post saying "built so and so and this wont work or that won't worK" if people when they built these big sets worked out what gear was doing what or how this affected that as they built they a) wouldnt make these mistakes and b) if they did they could figure out why the problem occured.

This is interesting, because one idea I have is that the set design process doesn't take learnability into consideration.

I remember sometimes in instructions that when a "module" is done, a few arrows are added to indicate which knob does what. The best set as far as educational purposes that I can remember is 8448. The build was split across multiple modules and beforehand, it's clear what each module is going to be. I have the idea with studless sets, with all their little fiddly bits, that every sub-build starts with an image of what it will be, but it's not always clear what a module is supposed to represent. It more often than not juts looks like a chunk of bricks. It doesn't help that the parts used for structure and the parts used for function are the same parts. With studded builds, there was a clearer distinction between structure (bricks, plates, pins) and function (axles, gears, liftarms), making sets easier to "read".

If you check the Chiron, it looks like designers didn't spend much time thinking about how to make the gearbox easy to understand. Sure, it works, but it looks like a random mass of bricks. Compare to the gearbox of 8448, which is nicely aligned into two layers with some speed-changes in each layer. True, it's a simpler build, but I think nowadays, sets are designed so that they work, not so that they are easy to learn from.

[Lipko]

I'm on the opposite side as the other posters. I buy sets for parts and while I do enjoy building the sets, I don't want to spend too much time with them. I don't think that means I don't learn anything from them, I can see the small solutions and building trends just fine during fast building. I don't care too much the bigger picture, because usually the models I build are unique to me, so I have to "invent" most things anyway. How parts can be connected, what (new) parts exist and what their properties are (something I can't imagine how you learn without building sets), how parts can be used in funky but "legal" ways are something I can learn from building sets.

Maybe it's like this because I'm a machine designer by profession, so I know basic solutions and how to approach mechanical problems. There are few ingenious solutions in sets (for example the steering in the Xerion) which I would adapt, but usually such thing can't be adapted as is. And the principles of such a solution are pretty obvious once you start to play with the model (and yes, I do play and try things during the build, I'm not just racing with time)

Edited February 8, 2019 by Lipko

[1gor]

Very well written; LEGO should be enjoyable hobby and what is enjoyable should last as long as possible. If you set some kind of requirements like mandatory time to be built than hobby could end in frustration.

[dr_spock]

Build at the speed that is enjoyable to you.  Then again being able to build fast is a good skill to have for those Speed Build contests at the AFOL conventions.  The only time I won one of those contests was when the build was a Technic set.  The other competitors weren't used to building Technic and I luck'ed out. 

 

[BrickbyBrickTechnic]

For me, I try to build as fast as possible, because any slower and it becomes boring

But I get why people would wanna go slow. So I guess the answer to your question is you do you!

[Rudivdk]

Guess I'm somewhere in the middle... Sometimes I build slow and savor every piece being installed, next time I build as fast as I can (and usually well below review stated build times). Does not matter whether the set is big or small, new or used, it's just whatever I feel like at that moment. Like @Lipko said, even during speed building I can still learn a piece's properties or try the functions. And same as @Erik Leppen: once I start on a set I find it very hard to stop a building session, I just want to go on 'till it's done (this sometimes triggers speedbuilding, because I want to 'finish book 1 before midnight').

But I do feel that build time in itself should not be considered as a KPI for how good a set is or how skilled a builder is, it just happens.

[STAT]

My builds are never slow, nor are the ever quick, they are always at the right speed.

[jorgeopesi]

9 hours ago, grum64 said:

Ah, you see I’ve been doing it right all the time  

I laughed a lot I like your style.

I am very fast with the sets I want build as soon as possible to learn and keep doing MOCs.

[icm]

I get nervous around messes, so I always build sets in one sitting as fast as I can.  Then I'm stiff by the end and sorry that I didn't take the time to enjoy the clever parts of the build and learn how the mechanisms work.  What I need is a dedicated building table on which to safely leave incomplete models between building sessions.  I agree that one's skill as a builder is probably not correlated with how long one takes to build a new set for the first time.

[3797]

There are people who pay others to build their sets.

But yeah, putting 42082 together took me about 14 hours and I enjoyed almost every minute of it. I usually take my time and with regular sets I often make sure that the LEGO logos on the studs are all facing in the same direction. 

[ShowsOn]

I really enjoy the building process on large builds so I don't rush because I find the process so relaxing. I think I sometimes enjoy the process more than the finished product.

I built 42082 working an hour or two a day for 7 consecutive days starting on Xmas night. It was one of the most relaxing things I did in all of 2018.

I think I'll save 42100 for the same time this year.

[nerdsforprez]

I just finished building 42096.  Took me an insane 8 hours to build.  4 hours to build the thing and another 4 to add the stickers. 

[Leonardo da Bricki]

It depends on the time available to me. If I have plenty of time, I savor the building process, taking all the time I want, sometimes taking stuff apart to see why it was done one way and not another. If I am pressed for time (in my mind) and thinking along the lines of "I have to finish bag 6 by midnight!" then it turns into a record-setting speedbuild session.

[mocbuild101]

Personally I think of building a set much like playing a game - you could speed though it just to get it completed, or you could take it more slowly and enjoy each bit of the process.

As for how I build, it really depends on the set - if it's small I tend to build quite quickly, but if it's a bit set (like the 42082 I just recently built), I build a bit slower, as I know it will probably take me a few days anyway.

[WvG_853]

Interesting post ... I’m not counting the time it takes me to build a set, but it is typically spread over multiple days weeks, although I tend to binge build. “It’s already late, but I want to finish bag 5 ...”.

Lego Technic building is for me a kind of mindfulness. It helps me to switch off from work and relax. Although I do pay attention, I’m not good at assimilating the different techniques and applying them myself in a MOC. That’s why I so much appreciate and enjoy when people make instructions for their creations.

[TeamThrifty]

19 hours ago, HeresJohnnny said:

Again and again I read post saying "built so and so and this wont work or that won't worK

I find this odd as well, as though the build is done blindly with no grasp of how it works... but people are different. I 100% love the build, and understand everything i do. But i had technic as a kid, and strip and rebuild my own bike engines in winter, so i kind of figured my mind works in that kind of way, and just presume not everybody's does?

I've never timed a build (and hope i never do!), its a hobby i enjoy so i'm happy to steady away with it... official sets take up less than 5% of my 'lego time', the other 95% is just building mocs, mocs and more mocs. So again, my lego experience means understanding is second nature. The thought of building sets and displaying them with out tearing them to pieces and moc-ing would be terrible. A Lego nightmare. 

Someone also mentioned relaxation - i'm 100% behind this. Running your own business generates a lot of stress, having a couple of hours on an evening building is brilliant for chilling out and stress busting. Its my version of yoga.

[pleegwat]

I don't time them, but it has happened to me that I started after lunch on a Saturday and then suddenly I'm hungry and surprised it's 21:00 already.

[M_longer]

20 hours ago, HeresJohnnny said:

So my advice to new builders is slow down, enjoy the  build and at each step learn why you are putting this gear here or that axle there. You will enjoy your build more, learn more and become a better builder, and if you want to start creating mocs you will have the skills to do it well. What are peoples thoughts on this? Or am I talking bricks?

There's also another problem with new builders - they have never built anything bigger than a shoe, but decide to make a nine axle, fully motorized crane, without having enough knowledge about mechanisms, performance of Lego parts etc.

[suffocation]

I nibble on 'nduja bruschette and sip Sagrantino during clicks, so my building pace is snailish.