Who's Your Daddy

[Knightsword]

My guess

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Kam_Solusar

Edited April 21, 2008 by Knightsword

[BlueBard]

If you ask yourself about who's Anakin's father, you're questioning Star Wars essence, because all SW story is about glory, fall and redemption. (Look for example what's written on Darth Vader's chest) I mean that SW is the story of Anakin Skywalker, the chosen one, the one who must bring balance to the Force so HE is the force, just like the Christ. Then, his father MUST be the Force itself, who created him to save it.

Well, what I wanted to say is that I think that SW story cannot exist if Anakin is not the chosen one, that is to say "son" of the Force...

[Vaders_son]

My guess

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Kam_Solusar

How come you think Kam might be the secret apprentice? I don't think so because he was trained by the Emperor and not by Vader as a secret apprentice.

Benny

[Palin Jax]

My guess

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Kam_Solusar

Outstanding investigative work... And on a very obscure character I might add... Sadly, I can not conquer with this guess based on two facts, at least in my opinion.

1). The Secret Apprentice will have a choice to make, either taking light or dark. This is very congruous to George Lucas' vision in the fall redemption motif that BlueBard so wisely put forward. This contradicts the stated facts in Kam's Bio, however, these could be altered, though I strongly doubt it.

2) The Secret Apprentice will not survive TFU... At least to any extent where he might be able to effect Star Wars canon. Now I again will concede this is only conjecture on my part.

Now, addressing Anakins Father soling being the Force... However much I would love to throughly embrace that as the way of it, as one of many motifs George has bored from world relegions, He has incorporated Evolutionary aspects into his Universe. Now he does concede that the forces almost seems to have a sense of it's own, but unfortunately, the naturalistic course of evolution does not co-exist well together with a sentient supernatural force. We must then therefore assume that the Force can not contain any element of "intelligence" therefore making it impossible for it to will Anakin into existence. Things like purpose, destiny, good and evil, consequently, become relative to that view of the beholder. Chancellor Papaltine eluded to this by stating good and evil are merely a point of view...

[Knightsword]

Yea, it won't be Kam, but the whole brain washing/memory alteration the emperor did to him, just made him stand out. Either choice light or dark could be over written by it, and he does fit the whole S in the father's last name.

[Dark Sword Ragnarok]

I've always though palpatine created anakin.

From what I know, he did essentially. In Episode 3 he tells Anakin about his master teaching him to cheat life and death.

So, it was in his power to create Anakin, similarly the way God created Jesus Christ, with a virgin mother.

If you ask yourself about who's Anakin's father, you're questioning Star Wars essence, because all SW story is about glory, fall and redemption. (Look for example what's written on Darth Vader's chest) I mean that SW is the story of Anakin Skywalker, the chosen one, the one who must bring balance to the Force so HE is the force, just like the Christ. Then, his father MUST be the Force itself, who created him to save it.

Well, what I wanted to say is that I think that SW story cannot exist if Anakin is not the chosen one, that is to say "son" of the Force...

This is true also. Palpatine used the force to conceive Anakin, and the force in turn helped to grow him into what he bacame.

And it would never had been Darth Plagueis because Palpatine wanted Anakin, to become the perfect apprentice.

Edited April 27, 2008 by Dark Sword Ragnarok

[Vaders_son]

I don't think Anakin is Palpatin's creation, because we learn in Ep III that he learned everything from his master but this one thing. He wants to find out how it works to save and create live with the force together with Anakin. So Palpatine as Anakin's creator is highly improbable I think.

[Dark Sword Ragnarok]

I don't think Anakin is Palpatin's creation, because we learn in Ep III that he learned everything from his master but this one thing. He wants to find out how it works to save and create live with the force together with Anakin. So Palpatine as Anakin's creator is highly improbable I think.

Obviously you have never seen a Star Wars documentary. Go watch one! Most explain exactly how Palpatine created Anakin. This idea was created by fans runnung their imagination over characters that were never even mentioned in ANY movie.

There is no "mystery", it's only a marketing trick to keep fans guessing over something unimportant that has no relevance.

Palpatine impregnated Anakin's mother with the force. That's all there is to it. There are no imaginary characters like Darth Plagueis (yes, he IS imaginary, because his name is never mentioned in any movie) who would create him. Besides, Palpatine didn't know how to CONTROL the power to create life and stop life from ending, and wanted Anakin to help him learn to CONTROL the power so he could use it for himself. But guess what? They probably never did. Unless the Force Unleashed tells us differently.

EDIT: Wait, how can Darth Vader still be alive after Episode 6, if he dies on the Death Star 2, then his body is burned traditionaly by the Jedi?

Edited April 27, 2008 by Dark Sword Ragnarok

[Vaders_son]

I have seen several Star Wars documentaries tho I have never heard anything like this

Could you name any documentary where things like Palpatine created Ani and so on are said? I'd like to see for myself and judge if it's reliable.

Plagueis is mentioned in Ep III when Anakin visits Palpatine in the Opera I'm absolutely sure of this (seen the movie about 5 times or what ) BUT I will check it again and search my DVD for this scene and post you exact time so you can watch yourself.

Who said that Darth Vader lived past Ep VI? I know that he appears several times through the force but he has not survived in any physical way...

Best regards, Benny

Discussing Star Wars ON!!

[Vader]

Obviously you have never seen a Star Wars documentary. Go watch one! Most explain exactly how Palpatine created Anakin. This idea was created by fans runnung their imagination over characters that were never even mentioned in ANY movie.

There is no "mystery", it's only a marketing trick to keep fans guessing over something unimportant that has no relevance.

Palpatine impregnated Anakin's mother with the force. That's all there is to it. There are no imaginary characters like Darth Plagueis (yes, he IS imaginary, because his name is never mentioned in any movie) who would create him. Besides, Palpatine didn't know how to CONTROL the power to create life and stop life from ending, and wanted Anakin to help him learn to CONTROL the power so he could use it for himself. But guess what? They probably never did. Unless the Force Unleashed tells us differently.

EDIT: Wait, how can Darth Vader still be alive after Episode 6, if he dies on the Death Star 2, then his body is burned traditionaly by the Jedi?

First cut the tone, that will not be tolerated.

Ok now onto your comments:

Palpatine never had the power to create life, he only said he wished to learn it as a way to gain control over Anakin. He knew Anakin’s desire for that level of power and used it to his advantage, the Sith used tactics like that to further their will.

Darth Plagueis was mentioned in EP3! So i suggest you go back and watch it again, Palpatine tells Anakin the story of Darth Plagueis the wise whilst at the opera, see for yourself here: http://www.starwars.com/databank/character...tine/index.html. As he was created by Lucas (you know that guy right?) then he is apart of the SW Universe and not imaginary.

You know your post contradicts itself, first you say Palpatine impregnated Shmi with the force then you state he never had that power; those comments make no sense to me at all.

Oh and what are you on about regarding surviving ep6? The new game is set between ep3-4 so i fail to see any link to post ep 6.

[Dark Sword Ragnarok]

First cut the tone, that will not be tolerated.

Ok now onto your comments:

Palpatine never had the power to create life, he only said he wished to learn it as a way to gain control over Anakin. He knew Anakin’s desire for that level of power and used it to his advantage, the Sith used tactics like that to further their will.

Darth Plagueis was mentioned in EP3! So i suggest you go back and watch it again, Palpatine tells Anakin the story of Darth Plagueis the wise whilst at the opera, see for yourself here: http://www.starwars.com/databank/character...tine/index.html. As he was created by Lucas (you know that guy right?) then he is apart of the SW Universe and not imaginary.

You know your post contradicts itself, first you say Palpatine impregnated Shmi with the force then you state he never had that power; those comments make no sense to me at all.

Oh and what are you on about regarding surviving ep6? The new game is set between ep3-4 so i fail to see any link to post ep 6.

Okay, sorry bout' the tone. Shmi states in Ep I that Anakin never had a father, he "just happened." And I dont recall Darth Plagueis' name mentioned in Ep.III. I thought at the opera, he only mentioned his former master. I could be wrong, I will go and check. Yes, I know who George Lucas is, I'm not THAT ignorant! (Technically, everything in the Star Wars Universe is imaginary, as they dont really exist.)

And my post doesn't contradict itself. I meant that Palpatine couldn't control the power he used to impregnate Shmi, and needed to hone the power, not that he didn't have the power at all. Note the wors CONTROL that is capitolized twice? That's what I meant. Sorry for the confusion!

And I didn't know that The Force Unleashed was in between EP III and IV, sorry. I thought it didn't make sense...

@ Vaders_Son, the documentary I'm referring to is "Star Wars: The Legacy Revealed" from the History channel.

Again, sorry for the confusion, more disscussion ON!!!!!

EDIT:

Palpatine never had the power to create life, he only said he wished to learn it as a way to gain control over Anakin. He knew Anakin’s desire for that level of power and used it to his advantage, the Sith used tactics like that to further their will.

Couldn't it be a possibility that he was lying? He is, after all, a Sith Lord!

Edited April 27, 2008 by Dark Sword Ragnarok

[Palin Jax]

Since I am the uneducated imbecile that started this thread, I should address more closely what I meant in the first place. Yes, documentaries have discussed the idea that either Darth Plagues or Darth Sidious, and believe me, having explored each, both have been addressed as being responsible. The Ultimate question is, and then becomes by proxy, is the force cognizant? If so, how does the prophesy ultimately come to pass... First, the prophesy is addressed or at least alluded to in all 3 prequel movie. It is then a reasonably question to make as to who gave the prophesy, ie received or delivered it. Also what device or originator concocted it. If Anakin is a part of a prophesy, the Force itself would be the father. If the Sith are responsible for the making up of the prophesy, then the two likely candidates can then be addressed. Now I know Lucas is not trying to put any kind of quasi-religion into play... as Star Wars is strictly entertainment. But I think that Lucas does fancy himself to be amongst the great literary composers of mythical worlds, on par with Tolkien and Lewis... But, and here is my twist, both are Christian writers... So then, does the Force, if responsible for conceiving Anakin of it's own volition, then become akin to a god construct. The crux of my previous post pointed to this as an impossibility because Lucas blends aspects of evolution occurring on every different spices, but, if he uses the force as a deity... So, the Enigma remains... and will be expanded by The Force Unleashed.

[Vaders_son]

Just looked it up in the movie, don't have an exact time as my player didn't show but it's scene 16 on my DVD.

Anakin visits Palpatine in the Opera and Palpatine tells him about GG hiding on Utapau and they talk about the Jedi and their distrust for Palp.

Then Palp asks Ani:

"Hast du jemals von der Tragödie von Darth Plagueis dem Weisen gehört?"

which is about this:

"Did you ever hear about the tragedy of Darth Plagueis the Wise?"

and as Anakin of course hasn't Palp tells him the story.

Vader (the smart guy from EB not the movie Vader ) you are very right about Palps motives for telling Ani the legend. After all, he knows about Anakins love for Padme and his terrible fear to loose her.

Palin, I don't think the Force is somehow conscious and has it's own will. Force-senstive people, Sith and Jedi, use their sensitivity to make the force (or you might assume the Midi-Chlorians) do the things they want them to do (lift things, yoke rebels, whatever^^). If the Force would decide what happens through it, it would be most important if the Force liked a Jedi/Sith or not and so do him a favor or not omg what wild theories

Ah, and thanks for bringing the discussion back on topic

[Dark Sword Ragnarok]

Just looked it up in the movie, don't have an exact time as my player didn't show but it's scene 16 on my DVD.

Anakin visits Palpatine in the Opera and Palpatine tells him about GG hiding on Utapau and they talk about the Jedi and their distrust for Palp.

Then Palp asks Ani:

"Hast du jemals von der Tragödie von Darth Plagueis dem Weisen gehört?"

which is about this:

"Did you ever hear about the tragedy of Darth Plagueis the Wise?"

and as Anakin of course hasn't Palp tells him the story.

Vader (the smart guy from EB not the movie Vader ) you are very right about Palps motives for telling Ani the legend. After all, he knows about Anakins love for Padme and his terrible fear to loose her.

Palin, I don't think the Force is somehow conscious and has it's own will. Force-senstive people, Sith and Jedi, use their sensitivity to make the force (or you might assume the Midi-Chlorians) do the things they want them to do (lift things, yoke rebels, whatever^^). If the Force would decide what happens through it, it would be most important if the Force liked a Jedi/Sith or not and so do him a favor or not omg what wild theories

Ah, and thanks for bringing the discussion back on topic

Oh, crap. I was wrong, guess I never paid attention during that part....

So I was wrong about that. Sorry.

[JimBee]

i think palin jax has a very good point. what i always thought was that there was a prophecy that stated there would be one to destroy the sith and bring balance to the force. now qui gon made a mistake thinking that ani was the chosen one (or was he mistaken? more on that later), but it turned out that luke was, and he destroyed the sith after the dark times. i think it all has to do with destiny, so destiny decided that ani be created, freed, trained, and turned to the dark side. then the dark times came, and destiny chose luke to bring balance. so destiny created and destroyed.

...yeah i can get deep.

[Vaders_son]

I'm not 100% sure but I believe that Ani is the chosen one. You have to take into account that he turned back to the light side and killed the emperor (Last sith alive to the common universe - not counting Mara Jade and so on as I don't see the *hands* as full sith) and so brought balance to the force by destroying the sith.

Different theory of mine: None of the Skywalkers did and could because I personally believe that the force can not be in balance if there are no sith. Know what I mean?^^ I always have this white/black picture in my head - Do you think it is balanced if there only white? - or black?

Best regards, Benny

[Palin Jax]

Ah yes... Now to the crux of the problem. Repeatedly, characters, Jedi and Sith alike, both allude to destiny. What then is destiny, and who is therefore setting it. To steal a righteous line from another epic though highly underrated sci-fi film, plans within plans within plans... Also, EVERYTHING in Star Wars points to either good or evil... We may pretend that as groups we can set moral codes and ethics, however, you can always find some guy... or gal, to disagree and set the bar lower, or sometimes hopefully, higher. If good and evil exist, and destiny is a believed in concept in the Star Wars universe, something is setting it that way. Anakin did bring balance to the force... The EU is what began the new Jedi Praxium, but the saga ends with the Death of the Chosen one... I can not remember where, it might be in the movie commentary of Revenges itself, but George states that Anakin is the chosen one. That is fact!!! Yoda states that "a prophesy misread that might have been." This then firmly implies that the Jedi received the prophesy, but misunderstood it's true implications. I therefore state that the Force is cognazant... capable of it's own volition to make conscious decisions, but may not be as powerful as a god construct... but still then begs then to be understood to what level it may be aware.

[Vaders_son]

This is an interesting theory Palin, and thanks for the clarification that Ani is the chosen one as it is canon I think.

But why is the force cognazant if the Jedi misread the prophecy? I think it was merely the mistake the old Jedi Order had with most it's decisions - they were too arrogant to believe their order could ever fall.

Generally, if you look at the whole of all six movies, I think they did read the prophecy right, because Anakin destroyed the Sith (not counting clones etc.).

The Jedi just thought that the Chosen One would do it as a fellow Jedi, some kind of Super-Jedi somehow. They never thought it possible that he would destroy the Jedi Order, too. And that was their mistake I believe

Best regards, Benny

PS: Maybe an Admin/Mod could change the topics title because this is rather a *Ethic Star Wars Discussion Topic* or something right now and refering to the topic we are all waaay off topic now, are we not? Discussion ON!!

[mutley777]

Trivia: Though not confirmed, it has been theorized that Anakin's father might have been Darth Plagueis, Palpatine's former master. Plagueis discovered the secret of using the Force to create life. Palpatine intensely desired such knowledge, and he murdered his master when he thought he had learned everything. However, it's possible that Plagueis' dying act was to reach out into the Force and create a child that would one day grow to destroy Palpatine.

I am a little late in this topic but i think this is the most likely of all explanations. If the prophecy was around before Palpatine's murder of his master then surely he would have seen the creation of a force conceived child a real danger to his plans. Now i don't know if he was ever aware of the fact that anakin was concieved by the force as he may have wanted to destroy the child if he had.

[Vaders_son]

I'm pretty sure Palp knew that Ani had no *real* father, but I don't think that he knew all about the prophecy...Just my ten cents

Benny