Custom LDD bricks and fixes

[SylvainLS]

24314 already was in LDD, so it’s an updated part, not a new one, no?

30010 was updated too (not mentionned).

Also, 24314’s (now paintable) tire is too large (at least compared to LDraw).

 

I’m wondering if it wouldn’t be more userfriendly to have the multicolour parts that have only one known colour, and will only have that one colour, be pre-coloured.  E.g., 24314 only exists with a black tyre, so why not pre-colour the tyre as black?  (It also only exists with a Trans-Clear wheel.)

On the one hand, it’s nice to be able to colour the parts any way you want.  On the other hand, some parts will never exist in other colours and it’s a bit tiresome to have to colour them bit by bit everytime.

Just an idea….

[Stephan]

25 minutes ago, SylvainLS said:

24314 already was in LDD, so it’s an updated part, not a new one, no?
30010 was updated too (not mentionned).

True, both fixed!
 

27 minutes ago, SylvainLS said:

24314’s (now paintable) tire is too large

@jester, could you fix this?
 

28 minutes ago, SylvainLS said:

On the other hand, some parts will never exist in other colours and it’s a bit tiresome to have to colour them bit by bit everytime.

Well, LDD Extended Mode has always been about the freedom to color parts in ways they are not released in. It's easier to color 2 sections than to sort the part you need from a list of 10 wheels (as of today only 2 version exist, but that number can increase rapidly of course).

[SylvainLS]

14 minutes ago, Stephan said:

It's easier to color 2 sections than to sort the part you need from a list of 10 wheels (as of today only 2 version exist, but that number can increase rapidly of course).

My idea was about parts with only one known combination, not to make one part for each possible combination.

But that made me have two thoughts:

1. Has someone looked into how to update the “standard LDD” part palette?  All I know is that it’s not in the user’s db.lif.
2. The colours (“materials”) are in the user’s db.lif.  Wouldn’t it be interesting to have the new colours (Corail…) available?

[Corellian Corvette]

Apologies if this isn't the right place to make a "request' but 2 pieces I'd like to see added is the 73587 Antenna base only (without the Antenna). Quite a few MOC's use this piece and the only thing you can do in LDD is make the antenna transparent which sometimes doesn't work if you have limited space. The base only is 4592 in Bricklink and Rebrickable.

The other thing (which may be harder) is just the minifigure hand. It's 983 / 3820 in Bricklink. Also sometimes used in greebling on MOCs.

If this isn't the right place I'll happily move this request there. 

[Equilibrium]

10 hours ago, Stephan said:

Where can I download the .g files and .xml files for these parts? I'd like to add them to a next update.

I'm slowly updating xmls with proper part numbers (I was going down from 999999...) and credits also resaving them with Brick Studio to get brick outlines (I couldn't manage to output that with 3D Max). I don't have too much free time currently so it takes a while.

Also, I have browsed through some of already uploaded parts and noticed that you guys don't make any collisions

[SylvainLS]

@Corellian Corvette This is the right thread to ask.  I’ve an objection / suggestion for this part though.

The antenna is actually an assembly for LDD.  That means several things:

1. There’s already two parts: the antenna and the base.  The numbers already exist.  The “new” LDD parts would need new numbers (not a big problem but for the following), or they would still be only available in that assembly.
2. When exported to LDraw, it’s just the parts that are exported.  So new numbers wouldn’t prevent exporting them.
3. When they are imported, you need the separate parts in LDraw and LDD reassemble them.  The base (or the stick) part won’t be importable if it’s alone.

So if we have a new part for the base, with a new number, it could be exportable but, as it would still be 4292.dat in LDraw, it wouldn’t be importable.

We could make new assemblies with only one part (one for 4592 and one for 4593).  LDD accepts that.  But that would still confuse LDD when importing or that would mess up ldraw.xml for people who don’t use these custom parts.

But all is not lost!
There’s a much much simpler solution: delete Assemblies/73587.lxfml!
The parts will appear in a new category at the end of the palette, with a “?” on a brick as icon.  It’s because they are in the “LOOSE PARTS” group.  That can easily be changed in their xml files in Primitives: replace the value of maingroupid with “236” and the value of maingroupname with “PLANTS, SIGNS AND FLAGS” (I’m not sure the name is useful).

Changing the group in the xml won’t break the assembly for those who won’t delete it.  But people will need to delete it themselves… or do we provide an empty/modified 73587.lxfml?

 

@Equilibrium Sorry again about the renumbering but I really think it’s best to keep the official number easily accessible to users.

[zweifuss]

1 hour ago, Equilibrium said:

I'm slowly updating xmls with proper part numbers (I was going down from 999999...) and credits also resaving them with Brick Studio to get brick outlines (I couldn't manage to output that with 3D Max). I don't have too much free time currently so it takes a while.

Also, I have browsed through some of already uploaded parts and noticed that you guys don't make any collisions

Not all the new blocks don't have collisions... just some. I wish there was a better way to generate them, it seems like a really tedious process to make collisions. At least with the current build of Brick Studio.

[SylvainLS]

17 minutes ago, SylvainLS said:

There’s a much much simpler solution: delete Assemblies/73587.lxfml!

Ah, crap.  I must have tested with the wrong ldraw.xml: that prevents the importation (because the assembly is still in ldraw.xml, LDD tries to make a non-existent assembly with the stick and the part).

Still, a very simple solution to have the base and the stick separately.

[Stephan]

7 hours ago, Equilibrium said:

Also, I have browsed through some of already uploaded parts and noticed that you guys don't make any collisions

Collission are optional. I am a fan of the collission boxes, and with that new piece of software it may be easier to add them. Right now, without the software, it's trial and error. 

[Stephan]

9 hours ago, Equilibrium said:

I'm slowly updating xmls with proper part numbers

When you have some parts ready, please let me know. I can add them one in batches to new parts packs.

[M2m]

On 6/17/2020 at 8:21 AM, Corellian Corvette said:

@M2m if you have a patreon or donation page, I give you 100% assurance I will give you real money if you make this work. I use LDD *so much* for my personal stuff and getting those older programs to work would be awesome and is worthy of getting paid for your time. 

I did send what I hope was a very nice PM to @msx80 to see if he'd be looking to do an update, but clearly it's been a while and he's not updated which I'm sure he's moved on. But his programs are still so great, making the change would allow them to live on and co-exist with the awesome changes to LDD to keep it going longer.  

Ok I finished a python program that (re)creates a lif file from a folder structure. So basically you can use LIFExtractor.py (by JrMasterModelBuilder) to extract db.lif, then add mods and new bricks and the repack if with that tool: LIFCreator.py.

I tested it on macOS and it worked with LDD and bluerender 0.6 (that is the new added bricks where loaded).

https://raw.githubusercontent.com/sttng/LDD/master/LIFCreator.py

How to:

./LIFCreator.py /Users/your_user_name/Library/Application\ Support/LEGO\ Company/LEGO\ Digital\ Designer/db/

(mind the trailing / after db - this is important).

As said I didn't (and can't) test it on Windows - I don't have Windows privately. But I welcome any feedback and hope it works in Windows as well.

Below a bluerender test (I think the leaves are a new custom part):

[Corellian Corvette]

@M2mWell this is SUPER encouraging and thanks!

Now for someone who can help walk me through python! I used LIFEextractor.exe to get the database open. I'm not familiar with using Python so perhaps someone who is super patient can help walk me through how to do this on Windows :(

Or perhaps someone can put this in an executable like LIFEextractor?

 

Edited June 21, 2020 by Corellian Corvette

[Equilibrium]

On 6/18/2020 at 1:38 AM, zweifuss said:

Not all the new blocks don't have collisions... just some. I wish there was a better way to generate them, it seems like a really tedious process to make collisions. At least with the current build of Brick Studio.

From what I saw it was the other way around - just some had collisions.

On 6/18/2020 at 7:33 AM, Stephan said:

Collission are optional. I am a fan of the collission boxes, and with that new piece of software it may be easier to add them. Right now, without the software, it's trial and error. 

If you are accepting (imo unfinished) bricks try to keep track of what and which ones have to be updated.

 

I think I should be ready to release my bricks later today if everything goes well. Had some problems with messed up outlines on monorail and pneumatics. While I fixed most of them on monorails, pneumatics would require more time so I'll do it later and provide as is. Turns out brick studio needs 3d model mesh to be made in some particular way to provide nice outlines which doesn't always go with "proper" modeling method. That's one thing.

Now the real question :P Should I release my custom bricks?

• Unimog tire scaled down to 42029 tire,
• Class tire scaled down to Arcos tire,
• Shortest technic curved panel (5 studs).

[Stephan]

4 minutes ago, Equilibrium said:

If you are accepting (imo unfinished) bricks try to keep track of what and which ones have to be updated

I agree. I placed a note in the list next to the bricks saying "has collision data" for bricks that include collision data...

5 minutes ago, Equilibrium said:

 I think I should be ready to release my bricks later today if everything goes well.

Awesome! I will add them then. Pneumatic parts as well. They'll just receive a v2 in a new parts pack when you have updated your files ;)

6 minutes ago, Equilibrium said:

Now the real question :P Should I release my custom bricks?

You can release them for everyone to download on their own. But, I can't put them in a parts pack. Otherwise I'd have to include those KneX parts as well, and later Brick Arms parts or some other brands. (I will make an exception for Buwizz though :P)

[Equilibrium]

Ok, all my bricks have proper collisions (apart from internal mechanism parts) and connections (carts slide on every monorail piece for example), some are gruped into assemblies. Credits and numbers where updated.

One important note: I gave you an ability to extend parts (shocks/actuators/pneumatics/rails) at the expense of moving them as one part. What it means is that if you try to move for example small technic shock absorber by its base it will disconnect from top part. You have to grab both parts. During rotation they are kept connected so I'd say it was worth it. Have fun :)

Download Link

 

[Stephan]

28 minutes ago, Equilibrium said:

 Download Link

Cool! I will create the new pack soon 

[Stephan]

Brick version 20200622β is now available for download; containing 31 new parts and 36 updated parts.
Among the new parts are: pneumatic parts and monorail parts. Pneumatic parts, actuators and springs are adjustable (remember to select the entire assembly when moving these parts).
Updated parts contain: fixed default orientations for Technic panels and the relocation of multiple parts to other categories.

New parts and updated/fixed parts

Edited June 22, 2020 by Stephan

[Stephan]

On 6/17/2020 at 5:40 PM, SylvainLS said:

The colours (“materials”) are in the user’s db.lif.  Wouldn’t it be interesting to have the new colours (Corail…) available?

Yes, I would love to add the new Vibrant Coral color, but I don't know how to open/edit the Materials file...

On 6/21/2020 at 6:53 PM, Equilibrium said:

Download Link

I think the oldest style of pneumatic switch (the 2x3x1 "brick") was not included in the rar file? Or did I simply miss it?

[Equilibrium]

14 minutes ago, Stephan said:

I think the oldest style of pneumatic switch (the 2x3x1 "brick") was not included in the rar file? Or did I simply miss it?

It's an assembly 469400. It was included.

[Stephan]

2 minutes ago, Equilibrium said:

It's an assembly 469400. It was included.

Yes, you are right! I included it in the rar file and on Github, but missed it in the new parts post.

I will update the post asap.

Amazing job on the parts btw!

Edited June 22, 2020 by Stephan

[SylvainLS]

@Equilibrium I’ve added the conversions for the new parts and new assemblies in ldraw.xml and there are a few problems 

The first one is a tiny problem: 41475, 74741, and 75348 don’t appear when you search for them in LDD.  Maybe it’s because they are listed as aliases in 95292?
(It’s not a problem for ldraw.xml as they are the exact same assemblies.  It’s just that there’s only one part available now.)

Next, a part number error: 9388 doesn’t exist as a piston head, there’s a u9388.dat which is a train base and, for pistons, there’s u9338.dat which is a gasket.  More below.

One more troubling problem is that you merged several LDraw parts into one LDD part while the composite doesn’t exist in LDraw.  That means the LDD part can’t be exported.
Example: the monorail bogey 268600, you made it as two parts, 2697, the pivot, and 2686, the assembly of the bogey and the wheels (2x2688).  But in LDraw, there’s no 2686+2x2688 assembly. There only is 2686, 2688 and 2697 as separate parts, or 2686c01 with all of them (so with a pivot frozen into place).  And I’m not sure a new 2686+2x2688 assembly will be accepted (though the wheels don’t change when they turn, so having them fixed could be accepted).
I think it would be better if 2688 was its own part in LDD too, but I’ve submitte a mechanical assembly with 2686 and 2x 2688.

Another problem is the way you allow the pneumatic pistons to move: you make the piston head a rotatable part.  IRL, it’s the whole piston+head that rotates, no?
The problem here is again that there’s no match between the LDD parts and the LDraw parts.  LDraw is missing some “mechanical assemblies” (assemblies of parts that always go together in a fixed way: no rotations nor translations between them), like complete cylinders with cap (but no piston+head).  A logical distribution / assembly for a complete pneumatic piston is to have the whole cylinder in one part and the piston+head in another part.  The piston+head moves and rotates inside the cylinder, so they should be kept together.  LDraw users will either use the already formed piston (whole cylinder + piston + head in one part) or, if they exist, the whole cylinder and the whole piston + head, to adjust the extension.
Example:
19475 should be two parts: the whole cylinder (which does not exist in LDraw, it’s 2 parts 2947b and 2941; I will be able to submit that part in LDraw) and the piston + head + gasket (2944c01).  You made it three parts: the cylinder 2947 (merging LDraw’s 2947b and 2941), the “piston” 2944, but actually rod + gasket (so u9338 and part of 2944 in LDraw), and the “piston head” “9388” (part of 2944).
This one I can make do for export: your piston + gasket is exported into the gasket only (u9338) and the piston head into the piston rod + head (whole 2944).
But I can’t do anything for 26288: you split the piston+head in piston rod and piston head and those files don’t exist in LDraw.  I can only export one of them and can’t import the assembly.

Finally, you can see the little numerotation “errors” in the “changelog” for ldraw.xml (here).

 

TL;DR: to import from / export to LDraw, we need a 1:1 match between LDD and LDraw parts.  I’ve submitted to LDraw some of the parts that should be there but aren’t.  But that won’t solve everything and it would be great if, at least in the future, LDD parts authors could try and keep that 1:1 match.

[Equilibrium]

2 minutes ago, SylvainLS said:

@Equilibrium I’ve added the conversions for the new parts and new assemblies in ldraw.xml and there are a few problems 

The first one is a tiny problem: 41475, 74741, and 75348 don’t appear when you search for them in LDD.  Maybe it’s because they are listed as aliases in 95292?
(It’s not a problem for ldraw.xml as they are the exact same assemblies.  It’s just that there’s only one part available now.)

I have merged them together becouse it was basically the same part. I made aliases so it's backward compatible with existing ldd projects.

2 minutes ago, SylvainLS said:

Next, a part number error: 9388 doesn’t exist as a piston head, there’s a u9388.dat which is a train base and, for pistons, there’s u9338.dat which is a gasket.  More below.

Strange, I remember having problem with finding fitting part number for one of the pistons which after some clicking led me to this number. But now when I look at it it shows me 70834 on ldraw site. Fixable.

2 minutes ago, SylvainLS said:

One more troubling problem is that you merged several LDraw parts into one LDD part while the composite doesn’t exist in LDraw.  That means the LDD part can’t be exported.
Example: the monorail bogey 268600, you made it as two parts, 2697, the pivot, and 2686, the assembly of the bogey and the wheels (2x2688).  But in LDraw, there’s no 2686+2x2688 assembly. There only is 2686, 2688 and 2697 as separate parts, or 2686c01 with all of them (so with a pivot frozen into place).  And I’m not sure a new 2686+2x2688 assembly will be accepted (though the wheels don’t change when they turn, so having them fixed could be accepted).
I think it would be better if 2688 was its own part in LDD too, but I’ve submitte a mechanical assembly with 2686 and 2x 2688.

I can split it into two parts no problem.

2 minutes ago, SylvainLS said:

Another problem is the way you allow the pneumatic pistons to move: you make the piston head a rotatable part.  IRL, it’s the whole piston+head that rotates, no?
The problem here is again that there’s no match between the LDD parts and the LDraw parts.  LDraw is missing some “mechanical assemblies” (assemblies of parts that always go together in a fixed way: no rotations nor translations between them), like complete cylinders with cap (but no piston+head).  A logical distribution / assembly for a complete pneumatic piston is to have the whole cylinder in one part and the piston+head in another part.  The piston+head moves and rotates inside the cylinder, so they should be kept together.  LDraw users will either use the already formed piston (whole cylinder + piston + head in one part) or, if they exist, the whole cylinder and the whole piston + head, to adjust the extension.
Example:
19475 should be two parts: the whole cylinder (which does not exist in LDraw, it’s 2 parts 2947b and 2941; I will be able to submit that part in LDraw) and the piston + head + gasket (2944c01).  You made it three parts: the cylinder 2947 (merging LDraw’s 2947b and 2941), the “piston” 2944, but actually rod + gasket (so u9338 and part of 2944 in LDraw), and the “piston head” “9388” (part of 2944).
This one I can make do for export: your piston + gasket is exported into the gasket only (u9338) and the piston head into the piston rod + head (whole 2944).
But I can’t do anything for 26288: you split the piston+head in piston rod and piston head and those files don’t exist in LDraw.  I can only export one of them and can’t import the assembly.

Yes, but in LDD it's impossible for a part to slide and rotate at the same time so I had to split them. And since you had piston and gasket as separate parts I thought it was best idea to do it this way.

So if I merged cylinder base + cap it won't properly export? I'd have to split them as well? I can do it.

For 26288 yes I had to split it into two parts since Ldraw had it as one part.

2 minutes ago, SylvainLS said:

TL;DR: to import from / export to LDraw, we need a 1:1 match between LDD and LDraw parts.  I’ve submitted to LDraw some of the parts that should be there but aren’t.  But that won’t solve everything and it would be great if, at least in the future, LDD parts authors could try and keep that 1:1 match.

I haven't thought about it when I created these parts. My goal was going after multiple features, but now that I know how it works I'll keep it in mind in the future.

 

 

[SylvainLS]

8 minutes ago, Equilibrium said:

I have merged them together becouse it was basically the same part. I made aliases so it's backward compatible with existing ldd projects.

Okay.  It’s just that as IRL they are different parts, I thought that maybe some people depend on the correct one to be used for buying them or something.

 

9 minutes ago, Equilibrium said:

Strange, I remember having problem with finding fitting part number for one of the pistons which after some clicking led me to this number. But now when I look at it it shows me 70834 on ldraw site. Fixable.

I too check LDraw parts and names thrice and still manage to make errors 

 

10 minutes ago, Equilibrium said:

I can split it into two parts no problem.

I just realised the motor needs the wheels too and I’m exporting it without 

Another solution is to leave 2686 as 2686.dat + 2x 2688.dat but make the whole motor, without the connectors, a unique part.  IRL, only the connectors move (and the wheels, but they always look the same).

The choice is yours.  It depends on which solution is easier for you.

 

11 minutes ago, Equilibrium said:

Yes, but in LDD it's impossible for a part to slide and rotate at the same time so I had to split them. And since you had piston and gasket as separate parts I thought it was best idea to do it this way.

That’s what I feared.
The gasket allows to have two parts, so LDD can be tricked, but the LDraw models will use gasket+piston+head as one part so they won’t import.  And that doesn’t help with parts that don’t have a gasket.
Well, on the other hand, I’m not even sure many people import LDraw models in LDD these days (I generally only did it to adjust actuators length) and there are many other problems (decorated parts, official submodels…).  So I guess that, sometimes, we’ll have to do with “good enough” for both worlds.

 

22 minutes ago, Equilibrium said:

So if I merged cylinder base + cap it won't properly export?

No, this is okay because the parts form a “mechanical assembly.”  It’s just that LDraw didn’t have it (some of these assemblies were already there, some weren’t).
Part authors don’t always make all the needed “shortcuts.”  They make the subparts and a complete, immovable part but not the useful middle level parts: if you don’t want a completely extended or completely compressed pneumatic thingy, you need to chase down the four or five subparts instead of the two that should be needed.
I have submitted the 8 missing ones and I see no real reason for them to be rejected.
It’s even a good way to find such missing parts 

 

15 minutes ago, Equilibrium said:

I haven't thought about it when I created these parts. My goal was going after multiple features, but now that I know how it works I'll keep it in mind in the future.

Of course.  I wasn’t blaming or even complaining (well, just a tiny bit: I’m French, we complain), just trying to explain from that point of view.  My explanations often come a bit harsher than intended.

[Equilibrium]

47 minutes ago, SylvainLS said:

Okay.  It’s just that as IRL they are different parts, I thought that maybe some people depend on the correct one to be used for buying them or something.

They are and maybe some people did, but there are also multiple small shocks (only one present in LDD) and multiple versions of pneumatics so to keep things consistent I did it this way. I assume people building with technic (and in extended mode) are aware of that.

47 minutes ago, SylvainLS said:

I just realised the motor needs the wheels too and I’m exporting it without 

Another solution is to leave 2686 as 2686.dat + 2x 2688.dat but make the whole motor, without the connectors, a unique part.  IRL, only the connectors move (and the wheels, but they always look the same).

The choice is yours.  It depends on which solution is easier for you.

I'd need a list of parts that should be updated. When I get some free time I'll update it.

47 minutes ago, SylvainLS said:

That’s what I feared.
The gasket allows to have two parts, so LDD can be tricked, but the LDraw models will use gasket+piston+head as one part so they won’t import.  And that doesn’t help with parts that don’t have a gasket.
Well, on the other hand, I’m not even sure many people import LDraw models in LDD these days (I generally only did it to adjust actuators length) and there are many other problems (decorated parts, official submodels…).  So I guess that, sometimes, we’ll have to do with “good enough” for both worlds.

Shouldn't this work both ways? I mean my LDD piston head is Ldraws piston + head, my LDD piston + gasket is Ldraws gasket. So it is just the piston rod being attached to gasket instead of head. Amount of parts is the same, numbers stay the same (for the most part).

47 minutes ago, SylvainLS said:

Of course.  I wasn’t blaming or even complaining (well, just a tiny bit: I’m French, we complain), just trying to explain from that point of view.  My explanations often come a bit harsher than intended.

No worries

 

 

Edited June 23, 2020 by Equilibrium

[SylvainLS]

57 minutes ago, Equilibrium said:

I'd need a list of parts that should be updated. When I get some free time I'll update it.

I’ll send you one in a PM tomorrow.

 

57 minutes ago, Equilibrium said:

Shouldn't this work both ways? I mean my LDD piston head is Ldraws piston + head, my LDD piston + gasket is Ldraws gasket. So it is just the piston rod being attached to gasket instead of head. Amount of parts is the same, numbers stay the same (for the most part).

IRL, the gasket + piston + head form a block and the cylinder + cap (+ base for some) another, so, ideally, the LDraw parts should reflect that and people should use them that way.  If/when the parts don’t exist or people don’t use them, it’s more logical that they use the separate subparts, all of them.  That makes the piston 3 parts.  I don’t think people would use a piston+head part and the gasket separately unless it comes from an LDD export or they know they need to in order for their model to be importable by LDD.
But then again, the parts exist, so maybe people do use them this way.
Anyway, I guess what I’m really complaining about is that LDraw allows many combinations of parts and ready-made assemblies (“shortcuts”) and not all of them are importable in LDD.

I’ve the idea of making a more robust ldr2lxf conversion tool buzzing in my head sometimes.  A tool that would try and look into the .dat files it can’t import directly to see if they are shortcuts of parts it can import, looking for undecorated versions, etc.  But that’s more work than I’m ready to do now for the use this tool really would have.  So it buzzes out quickly 

Edited June 23, 2020 by SylvainLS