The obligatory Matrix-Thread

[ApophisV]

yeah, here it is.... every board needs one!!! a matrix thread!!! ;)

okay, matrix isn't any more on the "big screen", but IMO that doesn't matter.... lets discuss it anyway!!! :D

i don't think that there must be anything said to the original, everybody should know "The Matrix" (i really really try not to call it "part one" or something like that!!!)... its simply one of the very best movies ever made. not because of the great sfx, its because of the philosophy behind it.

and now comes reloaded... i saw it in the theatre and after leaving it, i thought: "uhhh.... damn.... that is the worst film i EVER SAW!!!!!"... after seeing it on dvd several times i don't think as bad about it, though it is a bad movie... at every scene i had the feeling that the wachowskis tried to pull new ideas into this exciting and scary world of "The Matrix". look at the architect: he is completly USELESS. okay, nice to see who made the matrix... but: where is the point?!? the smith-clonies-thing: Why?!? why expand the story so that there are three sides (humans, machines, smith) that are all against each other?!? for showing fantastic mass battles?!? and the "matrix/the one" version xy and the story about "we destroyed zion several times and we become better!"... they took the safety of zion (as the last and only known *real* thing for the humans (not to speak of the theory if the whole earth with zion, the machines and the matrix is only a construct of ANOTHER matrix...))... but for what?!? and what does the merowinger?!?

IMO the point is: it doesn't look like they show any new details of this world, they PUT new details in it.... they expand their universe by pasting new things in, this things weren't developed by the philosophy, they were developed for making more (money money!!!) movies.....

does anybody understand what i want to say?!? (i'm not sure if *I* understand what i said... ;))

oh and there is another thing that teased me: the whole "powerplant destroying, 5 minute window for opening the one's door, speaking with architect, machines destroy the hovercraft, trinity has to go (no, you will die!!! don't go!!!), there are only two choices for neo, blablabla"-thing... i don't know what they did, but it wasn't the right way to tell this part of the story.... there isn't any continuity in the timeline, they mix up they planning talk and the execution of that plan, when i sat in the cinema i really had the feeling that this is only a trailer for part 3 and that the movie will end one or two minutes later...

but there are also some (few) pros for this movie: teh A.P.U.!!!! :D

now, i will write more about revolutions and the animatrix (great, great, great!!!!) later, i've to watch stargate now... ;)

[ApophisV]

Now... i will use the commercial break for reviewing revolutions.... ;)

i only saw it once, so i can't say as much as about reloaded... but the very first and most important point is: against my expectations revolutions rescued much what was destroyed by reloaded... revolutions has more of the original matrix feeling... and MUCH MORE APUS!!!! ;)

if someone would ask me, i would advice him NOT TO WATCH THE SEQUELS... (i adviced my ex-girlfriend not to watch them... ;))

but if you already watched part 2, PLEASE watch 3, too!!!!

there are some things that aren't clear nonetheless... what about the little girl the train station at the beginning?? we were told that she will leave the matrix, but in the end she is back in the matrix. why?

the ending from the movie made me think much. has the situation between humans and machines changed?!? okay, there is now "peace" between the squiddies and zion (plus hovercrafts and so on...). but are the people in the matrix free?!? i don't think so. and will the zion guys stopp rescuing matrixulated people??! if so, there will be war again, right?!? its a little bit confusing....

[sam89]

Well I think ALL the Matrix films were brilliant. I can't really be bothered to talk about each individual point you made, but I'll say that I LOVE them all B)

[ApophisV]

if i could see it from an OBJECTIVE point of view i surely would say that all three are great (e.g. the effects...)

but the problem is that part two and three are always compared with the original.... and two be better as "the matrix"... that would never work... ;)

[sam89]

OK, now I feel like arguing with all the points you made ;)

And now comes reloaded... i saw it in the theatre and after leaving it, i thought: "uhhh.... damn.... that is the worst film i EVER SAW!!!!!"

Well when i came out, I thought it was one of THE BEST films I'd ever seen. I really did.

look at the architect: he is completly USELESS. okay, nice to see who made the matrix...

He is pivitol to the plot. He explains EVERYTHING to Neo, and you find out that all the other Ones went to him, so he isn't pointless at all.

the smith-clonies-thing: Why?!? why expand the story so that there are three sides (humans, machines, smith) that are all against each other?!? for showing fantastic mass battles?!?

Well I think that that's the point, to have 3 different groups of peole all against each other. Also, the other reason for him is it makes it possible for Neo to end the war, by making the deal with the machines to beat Smith.

and the "matrix/the one" version xy and the story about "we destroyed zion several times and we become better!"... they took the safety of zion (as the last and only known *real* thing for the humans (not to speak of the theory if the whole earth with zion, the machines and the matrix is only a construct of ANOTHER matrix...))... but for what?!?

I thought that was a genious twist, and was very unexpected.

oh and there is another thing that teased me: the whole "powerplant destroying, 5 minute window for opening the one's door, speaking with architect, machines destroy the hovercraft, trinity has to go (no, you will die!!! don't go!!!), there are only two choices for neo, blablabla"-thing... i don't know what they did, but it wasn't the right way to tell this part of the story.... there isn't any continuity in the timeline, they mix up they planning talk and the execution of that plan

I thought that seen was brilliant as well. The way it all mixed up made it very interesting, and it shows the thing that is happening as they say it in the speach, which I liked.

if someone would ask me, i would advice him NOT TO WATCH THE SEQUELS... (i adviced my ex-girlfriend not to watch them... )

but if you already watched part 2, PLEASE watch 3, too!!!!

there are some things that aren't clear nonetheless... what about the little girl the train station at the beginning?? we were told that she will leave the matrix, but in the end she is back in the matrix. why?

Well I would tell them to watch them all immedietly! :P

the ending from the movie made me think much. has the situation between humans and machines changed?!? okay, there is now "peace" between the squiddies and zion (plus hovercrafts and so on...). but are the people in the matrix free?!? i don't think so. and will the zion guys stopp rescuing matrixulated people??! if so, there will be war again, right?!? its a little bit confusing....

Well they will let people free if they want to be let free, since the Architect said "obviously they will be freed".

Now this is all my opinion, of course. Some people love the films (like me), some hate it, and some are in between (like ApophisV) ;)

[ApophisV]

hm... *thinking*... looks like this will become an interesting discussion!!! ;)

"look at the architect: he is completly USELESS. okay, nice to see who made the matrix... "

He is pivitol to the plot. He explains EVERYTHING to Neo, and you find out that all the other Ones went to him, so he isn't pointless at all.

"and the "matrix/the one" version xy and the story about "we destroyed zion several times and we become better!"... they took the safety of zion (as the last and only known *real* thing for the humans (not to speak of the theory if the whole earth with zion, the machines and the matrix is only a construct of ANOTHER matrix...))... but for what?!?"

I thought that was a genious twist, and was very unexpected.

there is some truth in your fiction and there is some fiction in your truth!!! erm.... something like that... ;)

i hadn't wanted to say that it doesn't work, but the architect thing is somehow... constructed... but maybe that is my problem with the sequels... they are just constructed.... "the matrix" were very pure, every scene has it's meaning (except one: why is there this car crash after cyphers betrayal??? :blink:), it takes the story forward. all this things that were invented by the wachowskis (the matrix itself, the machines, agents, power plants, the neb,.....) are there because they are needed to show the PHILOSOPHIC CORE of the story.

the new things in the sequels are invented to illustrate the world that was "only" created as a surrounding for the philosophic theme...

IMO the sequels are more popcorn or mainstream cinema, the philosophic impulse has gone to the background.

but i can't imagine how you could really get "deeper in the rabbits hole"... the rabbit hole that is shown in reloaded and revolutions is the world of matrix, detailed facts, more machines, they finally show us zion and so on... but i think most people had expected to see more "mindtwisting" things... when i watched matrix the first time (i watched it up to 30 times till today) i had this "wow"-experience... i thought long hours about it. that was something i missed after watching part two.

maybe that is the problem: people expected that the philosophy would be developed, but it wasn't (maybe it isn't possible to develope it...)

Well I think that that's the point, to have 3 different groups of peole all against each other. Also, the other reason for him is it makes it possible for Neo to end the war, by making the deal with the machines to beat Smith.

wow, had never thought about this!!!! :blink: *thinking*

I thought that seen was brilliant as well. The way it all mixed up made it very interesting, and it shows the thing that is happening as they say it in the speach, which I liked.

i think the way they made this were much influenced by anime... the problem is, the style of this part of the movie doens't fit to the rest... all the other scenes were made in a linear way, only this few minutes were made so much hectically...

huh, enough for this post... ;)

[Jipay]

I haven't read the whole thing but here is my point of vue.

I learned english by watching the matrix 8 times in a week with friends in the USA. I love the movie, love the effects, love the story line, love the talks. This movie is brilliant. One of the best ever made.

Now I don't see the point of the two other release. Let's begin by the worst : number 2

Visually, I would say, brilliant, this movie blows my mind in term fo visual effects. Now the story sucks, talks suck a well and the romance start to become more "padme-anakin" like (that is to say awfull). The discotheke scene in Zion is completely useless.

Another thing: if you don't know anything about computers : forget about this movie, you won't anderstand it.

Number 3 is excellent but I suffered from this long long long long long long (and I will add long) battle. 14 minutes hearing m-60 like guns destroying everything on screen made me sick. I really really like the goliaths though, but they made an abusive use of those in the movie. The end is also dissapointing with the evidence of chistians allusions, just to make the movie look more phylosophic than it actually is. If you don't anderstand it : don't try to, it's useless, there is nothing to anderstand.

So my final advice : watch number one and send the other to trash. I guess number one was a mistake by seeing the other two. A good mistake.

Number one introduced an excellent concept with intereting hints to follow. It contains some revolutional visual effects for that time, but if think about it, it's not used everywhere. The movie could have been unique, and the end is like star wars V : it can end like this if the lovie don't work in theater but it can also let you think there will be another movie.

Unfortunatly, there was two other. The concept is developped, but we can't see the whole point. To correct this lack of new stuff in the story, we introduce fights and battles everywhere, shake the whole stuff and you obtain a good movie, but far away from the first one.

And think about the end. The matrix is infected by a virus (smith). Neo cooperate with the matrix and people who want to be free can be free (how ?).

At the end they show us the matrix as it was before. So what changed ?

Well now Zion folk can eat their synthetic food peacefully.

[ApophisV]

WOW! exactly what i think!!! ;)

[jonfett]

I get dizzy seing this much writing in a thread. I haven't had the chance to read it yet but I will do soon.

I just want to add, I never got round to seeing revolutions but I saw Reloaded and I didn't think it was as good at the original but it was never going to be.

I will post more later.

Jon.