LEGO Star Wars 2020 Set Discussion - READ FIRST POST!!!

[Samppu]

 

7 hours ago, TeddytheSpoon said:

What other weapons have been dual-molded, out of curiosity? I can't really think of any that would need it apart from blasters - Han's DL-44 could look pretty sweet if it was made as a specially made part in brown and black.

I would be all happy if they simply made the all-black blasters more detailed. This is a question of philosophy rather than marketing etc. as TLG opposes anything that even remotely looks military, though there have been some exceptions with the lines like Indiana Jones and Super Heroes. I am placing my hope on the new 18+ marketing strategy that it might give TLG the boost to finally upgrade the weapons a little. Though, we have Brickarms, so it really does not matter too much from an AFOL perspective. Even more so now that Brickarms produces almost every Star Wars weapon which has had bigger role in the franchise.

Though, as you said, double-molded DL-44 would be sweet. Winkwink* Brickarms designers.. ;)

Edited August 19, 2020 by Samppu

[Mandalorianknight]

15 hours ago, ARC2149Nova said:

Does it bother anyone else that Disney marketed TROS like it was Star Wars: Endgame? When Disney had no stake or claim to any of the six prior films? They act like this was 40 years in the making, when in reality it was only like 5 (if that).

It's the final film in the saga, so not really. I kind of liked how it (The film's 8 months old so I don't think I need a spoiler tag, but just to be safe:)

Spoiler

starts with Anakin, the first of the line of skywalkers born jesus-like from the force itself, and ends with the death of his final heir, Ben. (Rey Skywalker was meh for me, I get what they were going for but I think her saying "just rey" would have been better)

To try and stop myself from getting too far off topic, I'll bring this back to what people are saying about the sequels "going away" in terms of sets.  I'd assume that there will be fewer sets, since the sequel films have finished so there won't be the wave(s) for each film, but it's still a third of the skywalker saga, so there'll probably still be roughly the same amount of sets as the other trilogies.

9 hours ago, Kdapt-Preacher said:

To be clear, George Lucas wanted the Sequel Trilogy to go into a 'microbiotic world' to cover the cellular-level details of how the Force works in excruciating detail. His plan was for Episode IX to be set inside a midichlorian.

Again, I don't want to get too far off topic, but I just wanted to emphasis this. Whatever your opinion is on the sequels, I think we can all agree Lucas's vision would have been far, far worse.

7 hours ago, Sneakguest said:

When is force friday this year? If it has already been discussed lately then my memory is not top notch.

I don't think we'll get a force friday. No new film, and as much as people like the mandalorian I don't think it will have film levels of merchandise.

3 hours ago, Redroe said:

Understood, just curious. Makes all the fracas about "no $15 battle packs" seem a bit excessive. No sets are rumoured meaning no rumours of new battle packs, so rumour is there are no new battle packs. Maybe there won't be a winter 2021 wave! 

Some reliable sources on the forum (I think it was @jdubbs who first said this) have said there are no $15 sets on the winter 2021 wave list from what they've seen, or something to that effect. 

Edited August 19, 2020 by Mandalorianknight

[jdubbs]

45 minutes ago, Lego-Freak said:

‚Smaller‘ as in ‚less sets‘, ‚smaller sets‘, or both?

Both. 

[PreVizsla]

2 hours ago, Mandalorianknight said:

Whatever your opinion is on the sequels, I think we can all agree Lucas's vision would have been far, far worse.

No.


When do rumors for next year usually start? I dont want to go ham and waste my budget on things that i dont even want that much just for LEGO to make some cool separatist or clone wars mandalorian/maul stuff and i cant get multiple off.

[Snazzy Bricks]

Hopefully a new Echo Base soon and maybe a 501st Y-wing. The problem with making the Y-wing is that there is already one out, and it wouldn't make much sense to retire the TROS one to make a CW version, especially since the TROS and R1 Y-wing builds were essentially identical.

[Sneakguest]

4 hours ago, jdubbs said:

Aside from the battle packs, the makeup of the January/April waves should feel very familiar... though a little smaller overall.

Smaller sets and less sets is not too positive :/ but im more worried about the ”familiar” statement. Means more jedi interceptors, landspeeders and snowspeeders?

 

[LurkingEhlek]

Honestly as someone who has started to lose patience with the larger sets lego has been producing I am fine with getting a smaller volume of sets and smaller builds. There are still plenty of sub $40 stuff that I would not object to being made (I'll later post that list in future sets). As a rule of thumb, I can swallow an overpriced small set (AAT) a lot better than an overpriced medium-large sized set (Night Buzzard, literally every Tie/X-wing in the past 5 years). Now if Lego goes all in on the Grievous star fighter approach and cuts large sets but place smaller sets at a larger price point then we would have a problem.

Familiar is what makes me apprehensive because of how broad and vague that phrasing is. Sure we can rule out speculation on things we rarely get (Wampa Cave, Flash Speeder, the like), but there is a lot of subjectivity to how one interprets familiar. On one hand we could get sets similar to what we have been getting that are new. A Death Star set with Han and Chewbacca comes to mind. On the other hand it could be tepid repeats like a Rebel A-Wing, a Jedi Starfighter from someone other than Anakin/Obi-Wan, a Desert skiff, or a Corporate Alliance Tank Droid. On the imaginary third hand it could be embracing the Gnajbricks Lavaspeeder meme coupled with direct rehashes of any set from 2016 onward.

[Redroe]

3 hours ago, Mandalorianknight said:

Some reliable sources on the forum (I think it was @jdubbs who first said this) have said there are no $15 sets on the winter 2021 wave list from what they've seen, or something to that effect

I am not familiar with whom are the reliable sources and who are not. Guess I'll learn.

I've seen rumour of an Ahsoka vs Maul set, hopefully more along the lines of Mustafar than Death Star (I know there's a gulf in quality there but there is also a gulf in price and it's only the figs I want). Could just have been wishful thinking though.

Hopefully the word "familiar" pertains to a range of size and source material. Some prequel, some OT, some sequel, range of prices. Smaller I am Ok with, as long as it doesn't mean a drop in quality.

 

 

35 minutes ago, LurkingEhlek said:

 

Familiar is what makes me apprehensive because of how broad and vague that phrasing is. Sure we can rule out speculation on things we rarely get (Wampa Cave, Flash Speeder, the like), but there is a lot of subjectivity to how one interprets familiar. On one hand we could get sets similar to what we have been getting that are new. A Death Star set with Han and Chewbacca comes to mind. 

Trash compactor with Han, Chewie and a dianoga would be a great 25 quid set and sit well with the Death Star Escape. Shame the Death Star Cannon is such a stinker.

[jdubbs]

My comment was meant in the most general terms possible, in response to a question about whether microfighters would appear in 2021. I am saying the type of sets (e.g., microfighters, small-to-mid sized system sets, helmets, buildables) coming 1H 2021 are similar to the 1H sets this year, albeit smaller on average and fewer in total, and with a few things missing like the battle packs. I was not referring to which particular eras, trilogies, ships, characters, etc. might be represented.

[Redroe]

11 minutes ago, jdubbs said:

My comment was meant in the most general terms possible, in response to a question about whether microfighters would appear in 2021. I am saying the type of sets (e.g., microfighters, small-to-mid sized system sets, helmets, buildables) coming 1H 2021 are similar to the 1H sets this year, albeit smaller on average and fewer in total, and with a few things missing like the battle packs. I was not referring to which particular eras, trilogies, ships, characters, etc. might be represented.

Yeah, absolutely. That's really what I meant. I'd just expect a range of sources as usual as well.

I just wondered given the general consensus that battle packs seem to be on the way out whether MFs were on their way too, given that they've already dropped the number of MFs per wave from 6 to 4 to 3(ish). I wondered if the introduction of adult oriented sets, as well as extremely child oriented stuff like Juniors sets, is going to eclipse them.

My personal preference is toward a bunch of related sets being released together, based on a location or event, or film. But I realise that very focussed approach probably cuts out a fair percentage of the market per wave.

[Sneakguest]

12 hours ago, Lego-Freak said:

I don‘t think there‘s a Force Friday this year because the only new major content coming out is S2 of the Mandalorian. There sure will be merch for it, but probably not a big marketing event surrounding it 

I thought force friday was a must, as the maythefourth. Isnt there always a force friday no matter what? Even if there is no new content, they still could have special offers and sales,

[BigGuy4U]

1 hour ago, Redroe said:

I've seen rumour of an Ahsoka vs Maul set, hopefully more along the lines of Mustafar than Death Star (I know there's a gulf in quality there but there is also a gulf in price and it's only the figs I want). Could just have been wishful thinking though.

The only "rumor" for an Ahsoka vs. Maul set that I'm aware of came from Falconfan posting an image of the two on his Instagram which turned out to not mean anything.

[Mandalorianknight]

2 hours ago, Snazzy Bricks said:

Hopefully a new Echo Base soon and maybe a 501st Y-wing. The problem with making the Y-wing is that there is already one out, and it wouldn't make much sense to retire the TROS one to make a CW version, especially since the TROS and R1 Y-wing builds were essentially identical.

Yeah, another y-wing so soon is unlikely. 

48 minutes ago, Sneakguest said:

I thought force friday was a must, as the maythefourth. Isnt there always a force friday no matter what? Even if there is no new content, they still could have special offers and sales,

No, I think they've only ever been for movie releases. (Solo, since it released in may instead of december, had a "wookie weekend" I think)

[FeepoGerbin]

I find it so weird that they’re not doing much for Mandalorian... if I remember correctly, The Clone Wars had a HUGE presence in their sets during its run. The Mandalorian, I’d say, has much higher mainstream appeal... so why aren’t they pushing that as hard as they can? I love that show, as many do, and will buy just about any set they put out for it. There’s so many cool options. The Outland TIE, microfighters, the compounds for the Child, Mandalorians (give us an Armorer and the machine gun guy!), the Client (I’d love some of the scrawny/dirty stormtroopers), even Kuill’s home. There’s a lot of neat and memorable options that I think have much more appeal than the Rise Of Skywalker. I have heard very little about anyone who cares about TROS, but a LOT! about Mando, and Clone Wars too.

Edited August 19, 2020 by FeepoGerbin

[LurkingEhlek]

I would wager the low initial Mandalorian content comes from two reasons. The first reason stems from Star Wars TV shows getting less sets as time went on. There is a big difference between the Clone Wars treatment compared to Rebels compared to Resistance. Then you have the wrench of it being live action, which had absolutely no precedent. The closest to live action Star Wars on TV was the Holiday Special. 

I would say the bigger reason comes down to relative competition within the theme. The later seasons Rebels, Resistance, and The Mandalorian were all released during the new movie buzz that sucked a lot of air out of the room. Compare this to Clone Wars which had no conflicting films during its run (It even got a film in the form of a poorly strung together pilot arc of the show with a bad plot and animation, but TCW movie is its own can of worms). The Clone Wars was the new sheriff in town, which took up around half of the set real estate while the Original Trilogy took the other half, give or take the waves for the prequels which were planned around the 3D re-releases that did not happen apart from TPM. The Mandalorian had to share the spotlight with not just a Saga film, but the grand finale of Saga films.

Taking both of these points into account, things make sense. The Mandalorian was given a backburner role compared to TROS, as designers do not have foresight on how media will be received and have to guess. If I were Lego or any toy manufacturer pressed with a choice three years ago on what sets to make, I would have prioritized the final film of a cultural phenomenon compared to a risky live action show on an experimental streaming service when the last TV shows that appealed more strongly to younger audiences saw less and less releases. 

I will also say the low profile of the Mandalorian was what made it so good as a sleeper hit. If they had spammed merchandise of the child and milked the jokes out of the gate, it would have been seen as forced and vapid. But now that the sequel trilogy is pretty exhausted of content and the Mando is the big face of Star Wars, I can see a bigger push to catch up.

Edited August 19, 2020 by LurkingEhlek

[FeepoGerbin]

2 minutes ago, LurkingEhlek said:

I would wager the low initial Mandalorian content comes from two reasons. The first reason stems from Star Wars TV shows getting less sets as time went on. There is a big difference between the Clone Wars treatment compared to Rebels compared to Resistance. Then you have the wrench of it being live action, which had absolutely no precedent. The closest to live action Star Wars on TV was the Holiday Special. 

I would say the bigger reason comes down to relative competition within the theme. The later seasons Rebels, Resistance, and The Mandalorian were all released during the new movie buzz that sucked a lot of air out of the room. Compare this to Clone Wars which had no conflicting films during its run (It even got a film in the form of a poorly strung together pilot arc of the show with a bad plot and animation, but TCW movie is its own can of worms). The Clone Wars was the new sheriff in town, which took up around half of the set real estate while the Original Trilogy took the other half, give or take the waves for the prequels which were planned around the 3D re-releases that did not happen apart from TPM. The Mandalorian had to share the spotlight with not just a Saga film, but the grand finale of Saga films.

Taking both of these points into account, things make sense. The Mandalorian was given a backburner role compared to TROS which made sense, as designers do not have foresight on how media will be received and have to guess. If I were Lego or any toy manufacturer pressed with a choice three years ago on what sets to make, I would have prioritized the final film of a cultural phenomenon compared to a risky live action show on an experimental streaming service when the last TV shows that appealed more strongly to younger audiences saw less and less releases. 

I will also say the low profile of the Mandalorian was what made it so good as a sleeper hit. If they had spammed merchandise of the child and milked the jokes out of the gate, it would have been seen as forced and vapid. But now that the sequel trilogy is pretty exhausted of content and the Mando is the big face of Star Wars, I can see a bigger push to catch up.

All well put. I think you’re right here.

[BigGuy4U]

50 minutes ago, FeepoGerbin said:

I find it so weird that they’re not doing much for Mandalorian... if I remember correctly, The Clone Wars had a HUGE presence in their sets during its run. The Mandalorian, I’d say, has much higher mainstream appeal... so why aren’t they pushing that as hard as they can? I love that show, as many do, and will buy just about any set they put out for it. There’s so many cool options. The Outland TIE, microfighters, the compounds for the Child, Mandalorians (give us an Armorer and the machine gun guy!), the Client (I’d love some of the scrawny/dirty stormtroopers), even Kuill’s home. There’s a lot of neat and memorable options that I think have much more appeal than the Rise Of Skywalker. I have heard very little about anyone who cares about TROS, but a LOT! about Mando, and Clone Wars too.

I think @LurkingEhlek explained it pretty well but I'll also add my two cents. When The Clone Wars first came out in 2008, not only was it the first time Star Wars had any screen presence since the PT wrapped up in 2005, but it didn't have to share the spotlight with anything else for its entire run. As far as sets go, aside from the occasional EU set, its only real competition was the original trilogy, with less of a need for sets specifically dedicated to the prequel trilogy since TCW used so many characters and vehicles from it anyway. Compare that with The Mandalorian, which was released in a 6-year period of time where so much Star Wars media was being released (the sequel trilogy, Rogue One, Solo, Rebels, Resistance) that despite its popularity it's far from the spotlight that Clone Wars got, and now it has to compete with all three trilogies, Clone Wars sets (since the prequel focus has mostly shifted to the movies themselves, they don't really cut it as doubling anymore), and whatever else Lego comes up with for a spot in the set lineup.

tl;dr Clone Wars' initial run was during a different time in the Star Wars franchise, where it had more spotlight and less competition for sets compared to The Mandalorian.

[jdubbs]

I would second what LurkingEhlek says, and add that there were lots of reports of sets from Rebels not selling well at all. Yes, there are likely good reasons why this occurred, such as timing of when the sets were released and how quickly they retired, the quality of some of the sets, pricing, etc. But I suspect LEGO was still pretty gun-shy when it came to investing in product to support a Star Wars television show, at least back when sets for The Mandalorian were being planned. Resistance (admittedly a far inferior show) got just two sets, neither of which was the "hero" vehicle most of us expected to see, and neither of which lit the world on fire. LEGO may not have had faith that The Mandalorian would fare any better... whereas we can now all see that television is the near-term future of the Star Wars franchise.

[Mandalorianknight]

I remember the reports of rebels sets not selling well. Even there, I think that was more so that lego themselves messed up. I'm sure some of this was ordered by lucasfilm and out of their control, but they released the ghost and 1st phantom a fair amount of time before the show, meaning that no one knew what these ships were. (They do the movie waves a few months before the film releases too, of course, but those have much more marketing and usually have some recognizable vehicles and characters anyway.) By the time the show gathered it's adult audience, the set was already retired. The demand is there now, as illustrated by the bricklink and ebay prices of the ghost, but not until it was too late. They also made that January wave consisting mostly of super obscure vehicles from the season. (I can maybe get the over sized Ezra's speeder that was in a scene or two, but the wookie gunship had a single shot of screen time in the entire season, just of it docked next to the ghost.) Their season two sets were strange too, captain Rex's AT-TE did have a fair amount of screen time but was essentially just a worse version of a recognizable vehicle, and the other sets were once again obscure. The gozanti, which I think was a great set and still have my copy, was obscure enough not to hold a $130 price tag, and the Rebel Combat frigate that lasts a single episode seemed to only sell for ahsoka based on bricklink pricing. This meant that we got one season three set, (which I believe would have sold well enough based on demand for thrawn, a low price, and that the show had gotten a fair amount of people hooked by then, but that's just speculation.), and nothing for season four, when those two seasons had some of the most interesting vehicles and best figure designs. (I mean, c'mon, a defender, anything with the mandalorians, etc would have sold great.)

Then with Resistance they made the supremely strange choice of releasing the villain ship at an exorbitant price even for lego, and instead of bringing the hero ship alongside it, made a background ship.

So it makes sense they'd be cautious about their mandalorian and clone wars s7 sets, but personally I think they brought the poor sales upon themselves with strange set choice, timing, and pricing.

Clearly they've figured out how much popularity the mandalorian has and are probably getting ready to pump out as many sets as possible, it'll be interesting to see if they do the same thing with the clone wars.

[jdubbs]

17 minutes ago, Mandalorianknight said:

I'm sure some of this was ordered by lucasfilm and out of their control,

Lucasfilm (or Disney) doesn’t order LEGO to do anything. This narrative need to be put to rest. 

[Mandalorianknight]

1 hour ago, jdubbs said:

Lucasfilm (or Disney) doesn’t order LEGO to do anything. This narrative need to be put to rest. 

I didn't mean it in the way I think it was taken here. I meant more so that lucasfilm has them do sets based on some vehicles, or provides concept art for said vehicles at certain times.

I'm not saying that lucasfilm or disney is bullying lego around, but are you really saying that they don't have them make sets based off specific vehicles and just give them completely free rein over the license?

[jdubbs]

42 minutes ago, Mandalorianknight said:

I didn't mean it in the way I think it was taken here. I meant more so that lucasfilm has them do sets based on some vehicles, or provides concept art for said vehicles at certain times.

I'm not saying that lucasfilm or disney is bullying lego around, but are you really saying that they don't have them make sets based off specific vehicles and just give them completely free rein over the license?

Completely free reign? No. Disney/LFL offers guidance about upcoming initiatives (we have this movie coming out, plus these books, this video game, and these shows...) and which are getting major marketing support (we're spending XX million promoting Galaxy's Edge, and YY million promoting Disney+...) and who the main heroes/villains/vehicles are, etc. All of which licensees like LEGO absorb and use to map out their product lineup for the coming year(s). Most often, the licensee follows the money, because marketing spend by Disney rubs off on corresponding products by the licensee.

Disney has a chance to respond and offer feedback (we love this... we're iffy on that... we wish you would do something to support XYZ because we have big plans for it moving forward... we would really prefer you time your launch to coincide with Force Friday because we're spending a ton to promote it...) and eventually, approve the plans. When individual products aren't approved, it's most often because it portrays the character in the wrong light, or breaks a rule in some way (this character can't be depicted with that one, these costume details are wrong, etc.) not because Disney commands from on high, "YOU MUST MAKE THIS PRODUCT INSTEAD." 

This is how virtually all IP licenses work, be it Star Wars or Harry Potter or Marvel. There is always a give and take. There are rules, certainly... you'll produce at least X number of products per year and guarantee Y dollars in sales and so on, and a select few things are off-limits (as in, "you can't make products of the Tonnika Sisters because we don't have the rights to their likeness")... but one party does not dictate terms (or products) to the other. LEGO, as the largest toy maker in the world, isn't told by Disney how to sell toys any more than Disney, being the largest movie studio in the world, is told by LEGO how to make movies. The two companies are in a licensing partnership. Each needs the other to succeed, and each trusts the other to know their own business and do their best to ensure that partnership is as profitable as possible. 

One need only compare the diversity of toys offered by LEGO versus Hasbro versus Funko to see that each licensee has a great deal of latitude to choose the types and subjects of the toys they sell. Case in point: there are Star Wars licensees that have never produced a ST product (or PT, for that matter) because it doesn't fit their brand or work for their customer, or whatever.  And if, as some of you imagine, Disney really exerted the sort of dictatorial control over what toys each of these companies produced, Hasbro would have stopped producing Legends/EU/non-canon action figures years ago... and yet more come every year.

[Kit Figsto]

The other thing to keep in mind about the Mandalorian set we did get last year, it was a pretty "safe" set.  An AT-ST is a recognizable vehicle, and the only difference was that they changed one leg color, put some stickers on, made it look like it had exposed wiring, and put in new figures.  Conversely, with TCW/Rebels, they went for new stuff right off the bat, and my guess is that if Rebels didn't sell well, they probably scaled back and only went for the stuff that would sell regardless of how the show was received.  Even the Battle Pack would've had to have been planned before the show received the praise it did, but again, it's a safe set.  Cool, unique figures and only $15.  Once the show was a smash hit, the Razor Crest suddenly appeared even though we apparently weren't supposed to be getting anything from the show.

Also, darn, I guess no Tonnika Sisters in the Mos Eisley set 

Edited August 20, 2020 by Kit Figsto

[Redroe]

The first wave of clone wars consisted almost entirely of vehicles which had shown up in PT and related games etc. so were a safe bet. A few outliers like V19 torrent.

Even the latter series of CW, where they went away from big battles with recognisable vehicles, and into more underworld-y, scum and villainy stories got fewer sets. Rebels series 1 and 2 got bigger waves.

I think we might be putting the Mandalorian on a pedestal a bit as "adults" (and I say that as someone who likes the show but thinks it has the potential to be much better. Den of Geek does some great reviews that really pin down the weaker aspects of it). I don't know how much appeal it has for today's kids. My 8 year old nephew doesn't care for it at all, but his 40 year old dad kisses the TV when it's on. Rather tells a story about who its aimed at. 

[MKJoshA]

Guys, let's keep the discussion about Lego and not how Disney or Lucasfilm is handling their movies. That belongs here.