Technic 2020 Set Discussion

[Akbalder]

9 hours ago, Magical Duck said:

Licensed sets also tend to be more realistic and detailed than non-licensed sets, which is definitely a win.

It's true for real life models but for TopGear and Fast & Furious, it's juste a money grab.

I hope that licenses will only focus on real life objects.

[Dylan M]

So meaning Lego saves Time Money for the Bmodel 

 

Bravo Lego Barvo ???

[Jim]

12 hours ago, Magical Duck said:

Licensed sets also tend to be more realistic and detailed than non-licensed sets, which is definitely a win.

Licensed models tend to generate more revenue. There's nothing more to it. Kids (and adults alike) simply like branded models better than unbranded models.

3 hours ago, vectormatic said:

And indeed, if it werent for licenses, we never would have seen stuff like the GT3RS, Chiron or Panigale. There is no way a $400 generic lego styled car would have sold anywhere near as well, never mind well enough to keep doing them every two years. And instead of the Panigale we would have probably gotten another $30-40 low piece count iteration on either the generic dirt-bike or generic race bike theme.

And this 

[Maaboo the Witch]

11 hours ago, Magical Duck said:

Licensed sets also tend to be more realistic and detailed than non-licensed sets, which is definitely a win.

True. I remember building 42053 and thinking "why couldn't seats in regular models be this detailed?" 

[AVCampos]

12 hours ago, Gzynek2323 said:

For the rest of us, larger cost and no b-models.

At least some of them have B-models: 8110 (kinda), 42030, 42043, 42053, 42054 (kinda), 42063, 42078, 42093, and 42102. What I'm more worried about is non-licensed sets not having B-models: I don't see any reason (except perhaps tight deadlines) for the 42108 to lack any.

[Maaboo the Witch]

4 minutes ago, AVCampos said:

At least some of them have B-models: 8110 (kinda), 42030, 42043, 42053, 42054 (kinda), 42063, 42078, 42093, and 42102. What I'm more worried about is non-licensed sets not having B-models: I don't see any reason (except perhaps tight deadlines) for the 42108 to lack any.

Also my viewpoint. Why can't there be a Ducati hoverbike as well? 

[Cumulonimbus]

11 hours ago, Magical Duck said:

Licensed sets also tend to be more realistic and detailed than non-licensed sets, which is definitely a win.

I agree with your statement, but I have wondered why that is. Why won't TLG make their generic models as lifelike as the licensed models? Is the developing time and/or budget bigger for licensed sets? Is TLG just not as critical for the end result as an OEM is? Or is TLG afraid of infringing on copyright or other rights when making a generic model too similar as an existing example? I don't know the answers to any of these questions. As a fan of sets with realistic proportions and functions, this trend feels like as a double edge sword. I like the increased realism in licensed sets. On the other hand, I get the impression that generic sets suffer from a lack of attention/time and I feel we lost something by phasing out B-models. And those prices ... the time were I could buy all sets in a wave are long gone.

Edited April 21, 2020 by Cumulonimbus

[Bartybum]

4 hours ago, vectormatic said:

lego SW pretty much saved the company

Forgetting about Bionicle here.

29 minutes ago, Cumulonimbus said:

Why won't TLG make their generic models as lifelike as the licensed models?

Because licensed models are a safer bet because they carry both familiarity and make for better promo videos.

[Maaboo the Witch]

2 hours ago, Bartybum said:

Forgetting about Bionicle here.

True, although both it and Star Wars together saved TLG. If it had been just one or the other, then who knows.

Aside from Technic, though, BIONICLE (works better in all caps, natch) was the only theme worth collecting in 2003. Everything else sucked.

[vascolp]

5 hours ago, AVCampos said:

At least some of them have B-models: 8110 (kinda), 42030, 42043, 42053, 42054 (kinda), 42063, 42078, 42093, and 42102. What I'm more worried about is non-licensed sets not having B-models: I don't see any reason (except perhaps tight deadlines) for the 42108 to lack any.

Well, nowadays to build a B-model you have to download the instructions from TLG. That means that TLG has a pretty good idea of how many people actually download B-model intructions compared to the sells they make of each set. Now, dowloading does not mean bulding, for sure, only a part of the downloaders will actually build it. I think someone else overhere mentioned only 50% of the people builds B-models. I beleave it is much less. B-models cost to produce, they don´t come for free....

Having this in mind, not producing B-models seems to be a good management decision, ... 

I pity that, but one has to understand it....  

[syclone]

I am generally dissapointed of the direction Technic is going - just a very expensive and missing on fine details shelf model or a kids toy. In a company's view yes it is great, more kids can play with Technic with the colour vomit classification of parts/functions, more non-lego/technic fans buy sets with the licensed stuff, but I am yet to see a 8070 alternative - White Porsche didn't even get close to it despite having more parts and being same scale. Yes, new parts are cool, but sometimes I'd rather see a revamp of old useful part than a trillionth wheelarch in another shade of blue or unique colour.

And IMHO B-model adds to the value, no way I am paying 100 euro for a half-baked crane which only has one model. At least include some "inspiration" photos in the instructions as in old technic idea books and such.  I understand that TLG has to stay afloat, but... it starts to remind me of Apple in many ways...

[Gimmick]

Just now, syclone said:

I am generally dissapointed of the direction Technic is going - just a very expensive and missing on fine details shelf model or a kids toy.

Hmmm yes, that's basically what it is/was. =|

[andythenorth]

3 hours ago, syclone said:

it starts to remind me of Apple in many ways...

What, the keyboard doesn't work for 3 years in a row?  

Sent from my Macbook Pro.

Edited April 21, 2020 by andythenorth

[LucyCol]

On 4/21/2020 at 7:24 AM, vectormatic said:

here is no way a $400 generic lego styled car would have sold anywhere near as well, never mind well enough to keep doing them every two years.

8860 remained at the top for 7 or 8 years, I seem to remember it cost around £70 in the UK, it was replaced by 8880 costing well over £100 here in the UK, both sets were considered top end (and very expensive for the time) and sold in large numbers, it appears that Lego no longer has the creativity (or will) to produce a large generic car, preferring to tie in with car manufacturers. Oh and both sets had 'B' models.

[AVCampos]

Actually, between those two there was the 8865.

[LucyCol]

5 minutes ago, AVCampos said:

Actually, between those two there was the 8865.

I stand corrected, forgot all about 8865

[agrof]

Despite some licensed sets are really nice, no B-models is no go for me. This trend shows that LEGO went for money pump and gave up the missions like: education, inspiration, sharing real creativity. In the past they stood out of the mass, today TLG is just another multi company, they just happen to produce toys. 

At least there are forums like this, not comparable to the scale of mass TLG can reach and could positively influence, but we exist.

[Vectormatic]

Just now, LucyCol said:

8860 remained at the top for 7 or 8 years, I seem to remember it cost around £70 in the UK, it was replaced by 8880 costing well over £100 here in the UK, both sets were considered top end (and very expensive for the time) and sold in large numbers, it appears that Lego no longer has the creativity (or will) to produce a large generic car, preferring to tie in with car manufacturers. Oh and both sets had 'B' models. 

Personally, as exstatic i was to unwrap 8880 as a kid, i am firmly in the "the world has moved on" camp on it. It was the pinacle of technic in its day, but it doesnt compare in anyway to a Chiron. If we take both out of context and erase nostalgia, the only thing even 8880 even remotely has a leg up on, are the design flaws on the Chiron (gear slack and soft suspension). I have 42056 and 42083 proudly displayed in my living room, i simply cant contemplate putting my old 8880 next to it, The generic look of it is even worse then the dated construction. Some sets back then were obvious some specific car, take 8440, that is pretty much 1:1 a Ferrari F1 car of the era, and imho, has aged well. 8880 by contrast is a decent showcase of technology, but falls completely flat on the aesthetic appeal these days.

I think technic obiously has a place for generic sets, stuff like 42042 and some of the simpler motorbikes and smaller vehicles work perfectly well as generics, but the mid-large sets like 42039 and 42077 fall into this really uncomfortable gap of not looking very good, and not having the functions to back up the price either, and i think a set like the F&F charger is much more interesting both visually and technically (not to mention specific appeal to muscle car fans) then the similarly priced 42077.

 

As for B-models, i mentioned the community before, and the more i think about it, the more that thought gains ground in my head. Compare the B-models of TLC to the efforts by the community. Off course not every set gets the C-model love, and i think B-models for smaller sets should remain in place (all the sub $50 stuff primarily targetted at younger builders), but for sets which will be a big hit in the community for modificating etc.. (like 42056, 42111, 42083), i really dont think anyone is missing out by not having official B-models.

[Maaboo the Witch]

57 minutes ago, vectormatic said:

i dont think anyone is missing out by not having official B-models.

No? Fine. TLG can charge us half what sets usually cost, then, if they're not willing to make sets worth the full price.

[LvdH]

It might not even be LEGO’s choice not to make a B model, but rather the brand’s (Land Rover, Ducati, Porsche) to not allow a B model. All of the non-licensed sets of 2020 had a B model.

[Anio]

Just now, LvdH said:

It might not even be LEGO’s choice not to make a B model, but rather the brand’s (Land Rover, Ducati, Porsche) to not allow a B model. All of the non-licensed sets of 2020 had a B model.

It may be a mutual agreement.

An alternate model has always more compromises than the main model.

On one hand, the brand is reluctant to have one of its designs too much compromised (even though sometimes they are totally ok with some silly issues ; who said Bugatti suspensions ?)
And on the other hand, TLG is glad not to have to spend more ressource to release final product.

Bingo ! No B model and everyone but the customer is happy. :D

[Maaboo the Witch]

12 minutes ago, LvdH said:

It might not even be LEGO’s choice not to make a B model, but rather the brand’s (Land Rover, Ducati, Porsche) to not allow a B model. All of the non-licensed sets of 2020 had a B model.

42108.

[Vectormatic]

27 minutes ago, Maaboo35 said:

No? Fine. TLG can charge us half what sets usually cost, then, if they're not willing to make sets worth the full price. 

I suppose you want 25% off on most recent sets as well then, given that they dont have the B-model in the book, but rather online?

As @Anio says, B-models are often compromised and look significantly worse then the A-model, i think the last B-model i built was 42036, and that was mainly because i bought a second set out of boredom.

I stand by my point, especially for us AFOLs with internet access and community awareness, the C-models you find online are almost always better then official B-models (people didnt take very kindly to 42082s B-model for instance, yet there are excellent C-models), and more then allow you to rebuild a set endlessly, if that is your thing.

42108 is an odd one though, it is a type of set for which i think Lego would normally release a B-model, it doesnt have a license to hide behind. That said, the A-model is already somewhat questionable, not sure if the B-model would save it in the eyes of the AFOL community.

[AVCampos]

Sometimes the B-model is more appreciated than the A-model. For example, in some markets the A-model of the 8284 is the buggy (it should be very interesting to know why), and people generally regard the tractor to be much better.

[Maaboo the Witch]

2 hours ago, vectormatic said:

I suppose you want 25% off on most recent sets as well then, given that they dont have the B-model in the book, but rather online?

As @Anio says, B-models are often compromised and look significantly worse then the A-model, i think the last B-model i built was 42036, and that was mainly because i bought a second set out of boredom.

I stand by my point, especially for us AFOLs with internet access and community awareness, the C-models you find online are almost always better then official B-models (people didnt take very kindly to 42082s B-model for instance, yet there are excellent C-models), and more then allow you to rebuild a set endlessly, if that is your thing.

42108 is an odd one though, it is a type of set for which i think Lego would normally release a B-model, it doesnt have a license to hide behind. That said, the A-model is already somewhat questionable, not sure if the B-model would save it in the eyes of the AFOL community.

25% off would be great, honestly, since we are paying for less. Production costs (or  reduction thereof) should be reflected in the purchase price. And relying solely on the fan community to make alternatives (not that I'm saying that should stop, because it really shouldn't - I love what members like @M_longer and @TGBDZ are doing) is absolutely ridiculous. As is stopping B-model manuals for small sets. At least with big sets it's understandable to a point.

Plus some B-models have been great. 8283 is an unsung example of this (even if you can't empty the bucket when the arm is raised, but shut up) - it looks pretty different, sure, but doesn't look compromised. It's even the same scale! Probably Alfred Pedersen's best effort.

We've seen what TLG's designers are capable of with comparatively limited parts available, so in this age of massive part catalogs and specialized elements especially, there's no excuse for TLG (the company, that is, since the designers don't have all the say) to limit their sets like we've been seeing. Mileage varies on the licensed stuff, but the 42114 Volvo hauler at least should have an official alternate, given that Volvo sets have had them without exception in the past.

Oh, and I like 42108. It's clearly modelled on a Terex AC180 and pulls it off pretty well.