6 minutes ago, Yperio_Bricks said:

Richard Coer de Lion was a permanent guest in my room when i was a child. As were Robin Hood and the evil prince John And the Black Knight was a character himself! And there were many more like Ivanhoe or Blackbeard or Lord Nelson or Lancelot.

If there are no named characters, children will create them themselves!

Also they were based on popular folk stories, so children knew how to play with them without needing to be given much narrative since they already knew the stories, what the characters are like, what they would do, etc. I imagine most kids played with forestmen using characteristics of Robin Hood. In that sense, Castle was rather similar to later licensed sets, albeit with more freedom over what sets contain. Of course there is also free play and making up stories based on the characters, but that is also true of licensed themes. I used to role play a lot of space with my toys (not just LEGO) as a kid, and my stories were a complete mishmash of Star Trek, Star Wars, Battlestar Galactica, Battle Beyond the Stars, The Black Hole, Doctor Who, and so on with heroic elements stolen from characters from Flash Gordon, Buck Rogers, the Six Million Dollar Man and no doubt James Bond, etc.

4 minutes ago, MAB said:

Also they were based on popular folk stories, so children knew how to play with them without needing to be given much narrative since they already knew the stories, what the characters are like, what they would do, etc. I imagine most kids played with forestmen using characteristics of Robin Hood. In that sense, Castle was rather similar to later licensed sets, albeit with more freedom over what sets contain. Of course there is also free play and making up stories based on the characters, but that is also true of licensed themes. I used to role play a lot of space with my toys (not just LEGO) as a kid, and my stories were a complete mishmash of Star Trek, Star Wars, Battlestar Galactica, Battle Beyond the Stars, The Black Hole, Doctor Who, and so on with heroic elements stolen from characters from Flash Gordon, Buck Rogers, the Six Million Dollar Man and no doubt James Bond, etc.

Ideed, that's what i meant! If there ar no licensed or unlicensed characters, children will borrow characters from andy type of media, fairy tail, tv show, book or movie or whatever they like. It is not like unlicensed toys mean children will play without IP characters.

27 minutes ago, Yperio_Bricks said:

Ideed, that's what i meant! If there ar no licensed or unlicensed characters, children will borrow characters from andy type of media, fairy tail, tv show, book or movie or whatever they like. It is not like unlicensed toys mean children will play without IP characters.

Certainly will be interesting to imagine names for those figures in City, now that they are unnamed again, but still very distinct, especially in the City Space 2024, the golden character / admiral, and the team leader characters with special face print/head technology (and slightly darker tone uniforms) 

Also names have been different by region / translation even currently, City magazine tends to come with quite a generic figure but the name is translated to the local language , as there's a little story comic that explains the little build that's included etc.

Normal 2023/2024 City sets have stopped putting names anywhere , with the exception of some 2022 product that has not retired , like Chief Wheeler, the LEGO City Adventures Police Character found in the 2022 Police Station that'll be around for 2024.

But there's also a generic Chief figure found in the 2023 City Police Academy, at least based on older looking face and colored rectangles on uniform indicates a higher rank / long service record with ribbons. But I can already imagine people will call her Callahan , from the Police Academy movies, and blonde hair.

Edited December 21, 20231 yr by TeriXeri

In my opinion 2014 was the best time for Lego. There were such awesome sets for 50€ like the Ghostbusters Ecto1, Wall-E and so on. The deluxe special sets were affordable about 200€ for example the Simpsons house or Kwik-E-Mart. The best modular building, the Parisian Restaurant, was on shelves and had a great price... and those cmfs rocked so hard. Today there are great things, too. I love for example the fact that there are more and more Star Wars figures with printed arms and lots of highly specific minifigure pieces for all sorts of characters. On the other hand prices became just nuts for lots of products. There are less and less good sets like the viking village in my opinion and those are more and more often at a price point I am just not willing to join (like 400€ for Rivendell or the Castle. I can't see any reason the Castle costs more than 200€...). Also there are shady buisness methods like the cmf blind boxes I won't support, because gambling for children is highly immoral in my opinion. 

5 hours ago, TeriXeri said:

Certainly will be interesting to imagine names for those figures in City, now that they are unnamed again, but still very distinct, especially in the City Space 2024, the golden character / admiral, and the team leader characters with special face print/head technology (and slightly darker tone uniforms) 

 

In LEGO style, ... Admiral Andrew, Commander Carl, Engineer Emily, Pilot Peter, Doctor Daphne, Janitor Joe, ...

6 hours ago, Yperio_Bricks said:

Richard Coer de Lion was a permanent guest in my room when i was a child. As were Robin Hood and the evil prince John And the Black Knight was a character himself! And there were many more like Ivanhoe or Blackbeard or Lord Nelson or Lancelot.

If there are no named characters, children will create them themselves!

Me and my friends also did this a lot when we were kids. It was so fun to make up names and backstories for all the minifigs and the next day the same minifigs could be someone else.

18 hours ago, MAB said:

Do you understand what compromise means?

That both sides gets something, maybe not as much as they really want but at least something. Having zero original themes is not a compromise. Having only original themes is not a compromise. Having some original themes, some licensed themes and some new themes is a compromise. 

18 hours ago, MAB said:

19 hours ago, SpacePolice89 said:

Imagine if I would say that there will be no more Star Wars sets and only Classic Space and that all SW fans should just be happy about it because it's also about space.

Those SW fans would probably buy SW sets from the next brick building company that partners with Disney. Disney are not going to decide that LEGO no longer wants SW, so lets just forget about that property.

As I mentioned in my original post this is a very bad idea and only used it as a theoretical example showing that your idea that people who want proper sci fi space sets should settle for Monkie Kid sets and be happy doesn't work

18 hours ago, MAB said:

Friends sets are minifigure scale. Minifigures fit inside the Friends space shuttle in the same way a minidoll can.

I very much doubt that a ten year old boy would want a Friends spaceship and then have to replace the minifigures nor that any older Classic Space fan would want that either. The friends sets are great but Friends is not a minifigure theme, it's a minidoll theme. 

Edited December 22, 20231 yr by SpacePolice89

19 hours ago, MAB said:

And what if those classic themes do not sell so well? Alien Conquest and Galaxy Squad were Space themes, yet didn't appear to do so well. Not well enough to suggest to LEGO that they should continue to do distinct Space themes year-on-year or even once every few years. Ninjago is hardly a new theme. It has far outlasted the original incarnation of Classic Space, both in time and massively when it comes to sets and sales. Doing things like Nexo Knights is not a bad idea, trying something new is how Ninjago started. LEGO has to try new things to find something that resonates with kids. It wouldn't surprise me if NK play tested well but didn't make it once released partly because it was on shelves at the same time as Ninjago and they were both covering similar styles of fantasy based play sets. Many of the NK sets, especially vehicles, could easily be Ninjago sets with a little colour adjustment and different minifigures.

I'm not saying that we should bring them all back at the same time. Maybe one every year and then replace it with the next one. There is room for that. The last incarnations of Castle and Pirates were too junior ized  to sell well with older kids and the Icons sets are not meant for kids and have limited availability. To succeed the sets must be detailed enough but not too complicated like the 18+ sets. That doesn't mean that 4+ or 18+ sets should be excluded but the majority of  sets must be somewhere in the middle. New themes are good and should be released now and then. Without them we wouldn't have had Pirates, Aquazone or Ninjago. If they are popular they will stick around for a longer time.

19 hours ago, MAB said:

Friends sets are minifigure scale. Minifigures fit inside the Friends space shuttle in the same way a minidoll can.

I wouldn´t agree on that. Friends figures are way bigger than minifigures, so everything will be to big vor them - which you ofc can change to make it fit better for the minifigure, although you might need to change some moulds to fit better. Anyways in case of the Space-Set that shouldn´t be a problem anyways.

1 hour ago, SpacePolice89 said:

To succeed the sets must be detailed enough but not too complicated like the 18+ sets. 

Seems 3-in-1 is doing well with that, with the 9+ Pirate Ship (2020) and 9+ Castle (2021) still staying around for it's 4th and 3rd year , much  longer then the 2022 viking ship that's retiring despite viking village just releasing, but I know those are not full themes, and just 1 set each, but they are inbetween the demographic of smaller kids, and 18+ .

And creator tend to leave out certain things like horses, rowboats, larger animals and plant parts etc (they build them from bricks instead), not perfect, but must be doing well if they sell this long, and the castle is even exclusive here, and the Pirate Ship had a +30% / €30 price increase too.

I do hope Creator does get a larger Spaceship set in summer, as it's due for one, and this is the Space year after all, with Cyber Drone being succesful as well.

Edited December 22, 20231 yr by TeriXeri

1 hour ago, SpacePolice89 said:

That both sides gets something, maybe not as much as they really want but at least something. Having zero original themes is not a compromise. Having only original themes is not a compromise. Having some original themes, some licensed themes and some new themes is a compromise.

And LEGO doing a space theme if LEGO doesn't want a Space theme (or rebooting any old theme) is not a compromise, it is giving in to the other side. Putting space themed sets into their best selling themes is a compromise. Kids that want spaceships in sets get them, while LEGO doesn't have to revamp vintage themes that they don't think will sell so well to kids.

 

1 hour ago, SpacePolice89 said:

I'm not saying that we should bring them all back at the same time. Maybe one every year and then replace it with the next one. There is room for that. The last incarnations of Castle and Pirates were too junior ized  to sell well with older kids and the Icons sets are not meant for kids and have limited availability. To succeed the sets must be detailed enough but not too complicated like the 18+ sets. That doesn't mean that 4+ or 18+ sets should be excluded but the majority of  sets must be somewhere in the middle. New themes are good and should be released now and then. Without them we wouldn't have had Pirates, Aquazone or Ninjago. If they are popular they will stick around for a longer time.

One year, small themes that are soon replaced with others do not work well. That is essentially what GS, AC, PQ, MF, Atlantis, etc were. They come, they go, they are gone. They are small themes, so all the sets have to be aimed at the same age group.

Having a theme appear and disappear is discontinuous, so kids getting a 6-8 year old set in year 1 won't have the opportunity to get 8-12 year old sets in the same theme in year 2 or 3, as the theme has been rotated for a totally different one. The theme is obsolete within a year on the timescales of being a kid. And if they split theme theme in to multiple age groups, then older kids won't necessarily be attracted to a large set in the theme as the only other sets available in that theme are for younger kids and there will not be any further ones for their age.

The last Castle sets were aimed at 6/7-12 year olds, that is the middle ground, the traditional target age range for kids playsets. It wasn't meant to be for 12-16 year olds. From what I have seen, teens tend either to stop playing with LEGO or move on to their favourite licenses or more grown up subjects (botanicals, Modulars, realistic space, Technic. etc). Blended themes where there are sets for younger kids and older kids work well when the theme is huge, but not in a small and niche theme. If there were 6 sets in a theme and two were 4+, three 6-12 and one 12+, I really doubt it would sell to older kids as there is very little choice, and they would be playing with what is seen as a younger kids theme. For a small theme, they might as well concentrate on a single age bracket as small themes have to be relatively coherent. Whereas it works in a big theme like Ninjago, as there is plenty of scope to have varied subjects in each age bracket. There is critical mass in each age bracket - playsets that tend to be small vehicles or very small sets for younger users, bigger vehicles, animals and simple locations for intermediate, and more detailed location based models that are much more display than active play for teens. Each age bracket is almost self contained, without needing to buy from outside that age bracket. An older teen buying Ninjago City Gardens can display it alongside similar sets from the theme and doesn't need to buy some small and totally different style sets aimed at young kids. Having it as the same theme throughout is clever marketing as kids grow through the age brackets. There is belief that the theme has a future and you can add to your purchases later. That continuity is lost when you do a theme then replace it with another and then another. Replacing a theme after a year is a clear indication that they don't believe it has longevity and doesn't give customers confidence they can add to it in future.

Buy this not junior ized but not up to Icons standard Classic Space set now, and in maybe 3-4 years we'll do something similar again is not good marketing. By then a teen will have moved on to Icons sets or forgotten about it. Clearly it is better to do a coherent play theme for younger kids or a one-off, standalone Icons display set. Both are bigger markets than the 12-14 year olds in the middle.

 

 

1 hour ago, TeriXeri said:

Seems 3-in-1 is doing well with that, with the 9+ Pirate Ship (2020) and 9+ Castle (2021) still staying around for it's 4th and 3rd year , much  longer then the 2022 viking ship that's retiring despite viking village just releasing, but I know those are not full themes, and just 1 set each, but they are inbetween the demographic of smaller kids, and 18+ .

And creator tend to leave out certain things like horses, rowboats, larger animals and plant parts etc (they build them from bricks instead), not perfect, but must be doing well if they sell this long, and the castle is even exclusive here, and the Pirate Ship had a +30% / €30 price increase too.

I do hope Creator does get a larger Spaceship set in summer, as it's due for one, and this is the Space year after all, with Cyber Drone being succesful as well.

Yes, those are some great sets. A creator spaceship in the same style would be fantastic. The 9+ sets  have a great combination of detail and playability just like the old sets used to have. I like the Cyber Drone very much. It was nice to see a smaller space set on store shelves.

On 12/21/2023 at 5:17 AM, Peppermint_M said:

Anywho, I don't know what will make anyone happy. Nothing makes everyone happy and I think the marketing guys at TLG will carry on aiming at kids

I think that's the issue, there so focused on making things "For Kids", that they forget or lose touch with what kids want. I think Dreamzzz is a focus group nightmare. Its a clear attempt to get every demographic with one theme but all these ideas clash creating cracks within the frame. To top it all off all the clashing ascetics creates this air of soullessness. Not that it is soulless but that's just the vibe I get from it.

See, I like Dreamzzz and it seems a lot more coherent than Time Cruisers/Time Twisters was and that theme falls into the timescale people are arguing to be a good era...

I enjoy the flights of fancy and the fantastical world of the Dream World.

5 hours ago, Peppermint_M said:

See, I like Dreamzzz and it seems a lot more coherent than Time Cruisers/Time Twisters was and that theme falls into the timescale people are arguing to be a good era...

I enjoy the flights of fancy and the fantastical world of the Dream World.

Dreamzzz was just never going to be my thing, which is fine. If you like it get! we need more in house themes. But I completely disagree with the time cruisers being more incoherent. It could also be I'm looking at it from the entire wave as a whole. The builds of Dreamzzz I think there great, I plan to pic up a few more than just Mateo and Z-blobs mech. There just expensive, but that another story entirely. Every set is coherent, but going from one set to the next is not... besides the nightmare forces. While every time cruisers set might not be coherent as a singular set but as a theme the grey makes them feel like a part of a whole faction.

14 hours ago, Peppermint_M said:

See, I like Dreamzzz and it seems a lot more coherent than Time Cruisers/Time Twisters was and that theme falls into the timescale people are arguing to be a good era...

I enjoy the flights of fancy and the fantastical world of the Dream World.

When Time Cruisers was released in 1996 all the classic themes still existed but nowadays we have only City as a replacement for Town and no credible replacement for Castle, Space or Pirates. Themes such as Time Cruisers and Dreamzzz are nice complements to the core themes but cannot replace them.

However, we do still have some core themes, and there is nothing saying "the core" cannot shift.

With a decade + lifespan, Ninjago has become a core theme, not something we predicted when I was asked to be staff for the soon-to-be-formed Action Themes subforum. I honestly thought I would be looking after a section with an ever changing roster and some firm favourites that had nostalgia appeal (Like Adventurers and Aqua-(fill in the blank)) as a foundation. Instead, while indeed Adventurers and deep sea exploration remain cornerstones. Ninjago has lasted and lasted, with AFOLs coming in who grew up with the theme just the same as the original online AFOLs grew up with Space/Town/Castle.