Unpopular Opinions about LEGO

[danth]

33 minutes ago, Alexandrina said:

It's a bit deceptive to not count certain themes (Creator Expert, Chinese New Year) that contain minifigures, or (Friends) contain an equivalent of minifigures - while counting Super Mario, which has never included proper minifigures. If you count all the core themes without regard to whether they include a specific definition of minifigure, you actually get a pretty equal balance, with a slight edge to Licensed themes: to your list we can add Friends, Creator, CNY and Technic to the unlicensed themes and Disney Princess to the Licensed themes - for a total of 9-8 in favour of the Licensed themes.

In the case of Speed Champions, is it really a Licensed theme in the traditional sense any way? It uses yellowhead minifigures and as far as I can tell the only license is for the brand name of the car - which is no different to the old Esso/Shell sets from back in the day. 

You're right about Super Mario. That was a mistake. I've crossed it out in my post.

A bunch of Creator Expert sets are licensed.

If someone wants to go through Brickset and count every single set and determine whether it's licensed or not, they can go ahead. I tried to make a quick example using minifig scaled themes because that's what I care about. There are many ways to slice it so I picked one way.

But what does it matter if the number of licensed sets is 33% or 44% or 66%? We all know that the number of licensed sets is growing and infiltrating more themes and displacing themes (some of us) like.

[danth]

1 hour ago, Clone OPatra said:

@danth the tone of your post is absolutely unacceptable here. Disagreement is fine of course and I get the actual points you're getting at, but couching it in such targetted hostility against another member is not ok.

Credit to Aanchir for responding with such maturity.

I might just have to admit here that I lack the emotional maturity to respond to some of Aanchir's posts. That's on me, not her.

It's really wild to read a post where someone seriously says that the real problem is that people who miss old themes just need to appreciate Dots more, or to imply that nothing has really changed because there used to be wooden licensed cars in the 60's. Are those arguments not bizarre to anyone else?

Or -- whether the actual word "hypocrite" was used -- to say the same people who complain about licensed themes are secretly okay with 80's licenses. That is an accusation of hypocrisy, period.

Obviously that's a simplification of what was said, and maybe I'm misinterpreting things. But it's very, very hard to for me to read those things and believe that 1) they written in good faith and 2) that they are written for any other reason than to annoy and push buttons. Why go into an "Unpopular Opinions" thread and try to invalidate opinions with such (IMO, bizarre) arguments. 

So, yes, I thought the only appropriate response was sarcasm. Maybe that's due to my own immaturity.

In the future, if I can't reply seriously, I'll just ignore the post.

Apologies to Aanchir. I reacted emotionally and went too far.

Edited April 4, 2022 by danth

[Clone OPatra]

Sure I don't agree with all of Aanchir's points either, though she did quite clearly identify them as trends she's recognised, not something she's saying is everyone's feeling on the subject. She said this:

"I'm not claiming any of this is universal, of course, or that everybody should be expected to approve of every theme. But it's a trend I've often noticed among a lot of AFOL reactions to both licensed and non-licensed themes."

But like I said, sarcasm that reads as blatant hostility is not ok in any circumstance.

This topic can be as much for discussion of unpopular opinions as statements of them. If it was just one person after another stating an unpopular opinion, that'd be quite the boring thread. Back and forth doesn't mean anyone is truly trying to dissuade anyone else of their opinion, but that's what discussion is all about.

Personally some of LEGO's current, ongoing in-house Minifigure themes don't appeal to me as much as certain discontinued ones, and I think that sometimes comes down to the fact that they don't have as strong cohesion as themes used to. Monkie Kid and Ninjago produce some stellar sets and parts and minifigures, some of which catch my eye, but because of the amount of characters and ever changing villains, as well as focus on wacky vehicles of a type I personally have never cared for, those themes often wash over me and don't stick in my mind like some of the cohesive Castle subthemes of old, let's say.

Even Hidden Side, as a very recent example, had a lot going for it and a certain overall aesthetic, but the sets didn't all tie together cohesively.

I'd like to see more "one and done" in-house themes with strong theme cohesion and focus across five or six sets, and that's it. Not everything needs to be targetted to be a multi-year theme with a big media push, but perhaps "one and done"s don't sell as well any more.

Still, looking back through LEGO's history, I only ever cared for maybe half of what they were offering at any given time. Is this my own unpopular opinion, but I NEVER cared for pretty much any of the fantastical underwater stuff, like all the Aquazone themes. Most Classic Space sets looks cute with a nostalgic lens but not great, and later space stuff was a wonky mess. Newer space themes like Space Police III and Galaxy Squad were worlds better.

[Vindicare]

On 3/31/2022 at 10:00 AM, danth said:

"What's wrong with it" is that it comes at the expense of Classic Themes. Because it's in the license agreements. Disney isn't going to allow competing space ship sets while Lego has the license for Star Wars. That's just how it works.

We can’t know this though. A lack of licensed themes doesn’t guarantee we’d see those Classic themes return, which I would enjoy as well. We’ve gotten many in house themes, particularly of the action variety, since licensed themes came on the scene. We could’ve just as easily gotten a Classic wave instead of any number of themes we did get, but LEGO didn’t give it to us & only they know why. 

[The Island Chronicles]

3 hours ago, Vindicare said:

We can’t know this though. A lack of licensed themes doesn’t guarantee we’d see those Classic themes return, which I would enjoy as well. We’ve gotten many in house themes, particularly of the action variety, since licensed themes came on the scene. We could’ve just as easily gotten a Classic wave instead of any number of themes we did get, but LEGO didn’t give it to us & only they know why. 

Even though this is probably one of the hardest parts of being an AFOL, I have to agree with that statement because its just general commonsense when it comes to the Lego universe. Some things that we want just aren't even worth bringing into production, whether its the first time or whether its returning, so Lego just doesn't do it. It happens to almost everyone's wish lists. I think we should just live with it and try to work with what Lego is able to give us instead of making complaints. I'm trying to tell others how to feel (and I'm sure that wasn't @Aanchir's intent either). But the thing is.....its one thing to disagree with what Lego does and express that through criticism. But to come here to just rant about what you don't like about Lego and wish they'd do, especially by getting rid of other themes to do it, is just annoying. 

Uh btw @danth, you do realize that Dots is a totally different subject than space, castle and pirates right? 

Edited April 4, 2022 by Poodabricks

[MAB]

11 hours ago, danth said:

I mean, you're right, we should be happy that LEGO took away our glorious Classic Space sets, and Castle, Pirate, etc, because they gave us freaking Dots.

Dots.

Are you serious?

 

Does anyone really believe that we no longer get Classic Space (and Pirate and Castle) sets because of DOTS? They are completely different products aimed at different markets, only linked by the company that produce them. We don't get Classic Space any more because LEGO has moved on from 40 year old views. The toy market has changed and LEGO has evolved with it, rather than died without changing, endlessly repeating what it did 40 years ago rather than aiming for what kids want today. We don't get Classic 40 Year Old Views of Space because we now get Modern Views of Space. Same ideas, just updated.

Whereas DOTS are essentially the replacement for the jewellery in "Classic Scala" that evolved through non-Classic Clickits into what we have today.

If they had sold Star Wars LEGO in the late 70s and 80s, I would have asked for it rather than Classic Space. And now that would be called Classic Star Wars. It would be different to modern Star Wars, with yellow skin minifigures (as the original SW sets were), much more basic parts (even more basic than the original SW sets), a more basic colour palette, barely any printing on figures or parts. The only thing that is special about Classic Space, Classic Castle and Classic Pirates is that these were the themes that happened to be produced in the childhood of many AFOLs of a certain age and among the first minifigure sets produced. The ideas behind the themes have been repeated many times since, updating them for the contemporary audience each time.

[danth]

6 hours ago, Poodabricks said:

Uh btw @danth, you do realize that Dots is a totally different subject than space, castle and pirates right? 

I didn't bring it up. That was a response to someone else bring up Dots. I agree it has nothing to do with Classic themes.

6 hours ago, MAB said:

Does anyone really believe that we no longer get Classic Space (and Pirate and Castle) sets because of DOTS?

Nope, nor do I. Did you read the comment I was replying to?

[icm]

6 hours ago, MAB said:

We don't get Classic 40 Year Old Views of Space because we now get Modern Views of Space. Same ideas, just updated.

If they had sold Star Wars LEGO in the late 70s and 80s, I would have asked for it rather than Classic Space. And now that would be called Classic Star Wars. It would be different to modern Star Wars, with yellow skin minifigures (as the original SW sets were), much more basic parts (even more basic than the original SW sets), a more basic colour palette, barely any printing on figures or parts.

The only thing that is special about Classic Space, Classic Castle and Classic Pirates is that these were the themes that happened to be produced in the childhood of many AFOLs of a certain age and among the first minifigure sets produced. The ideas behind the themes have been repeated many times since, updating them for the contemporary audience each time.

[emphasis added]

Hear, hear.  Well, not quite.  I was introduced to Classic Space in the early 2000s, and it still stood out to me as being better than what Lego had been producing for Space just before the introduction of Star Wars, and better than most of what Lego was producing at the time.  But then, in the early 2000s most product lines weren't that good, there's a reason it was a troubled time for the company.

Speaking of Classic Star Wars, I made a few concepts for that ... and after building my "Classic Star Wars" Z-95 Headhunter and X-wing in the brick I think it would have worked just great.  (I haven't posted pictures of my completed CSW builds in the brick, yet.)

https://flic.kr/s/aHsmEwrCJJ

Ron Dayes also built some Classic Star Wars that looks really good (looks a lot better than mine) but also takes a lot more liberties in using anachronistic parts inside where you can't see them.

https://flickr.com/photos/rondayes

[Karalora]

13 hours ago, Clone OPatra said:

I'd like to see more "one and done" in-house themes with strong theme cohesion and focus across five or six sets, and that's it. Not everything needs to be targetted to be a multi-year theme with a big media push, but perhaps "one and done"s don't sell as well any more.

Maybe it's more the case that a theme becomes "one and done," instead of continuing, because it doesn't sell well.

[Lyichir]

2 minutes ago, Karalora said:

Maybe it's more the case that a theme becomes "one and done," instead of continuing, because it doesn't sell well.

This. For some themes like Galaxy Squad and Alien Conquest, we've even seen designer comments and preliminary pictures indicating that each of those had had a second year of sets in development that never got released. And themes like Atlantis and Power Miners did get extended on the strength of their first-year sales. For better or for worse, Lego has managed to find more reliable success for many of their themes (original and licensed alike) in recent years than they did in the early 2000s/2010s, which consequently tends to mean fewer opportunities for new themes to be introduced to take their place.

[Feuer Zug]

Shifting gears here. Unpopular opinion (at least with LEGO) - the problem with reddish brown plates breaking with alarming regularity. Even new pieces recently sourced from PAB walls are shattering on me. QC is failing.

[icm]

I thought they fixed that.  Definitely complain to customer service so that they can try again and actually solve the root cause of the problem this time!

[MAB]

2 hours ago, Lyichir said:

This. For some themes like Galaxy Squad and Alien Conquest, we've even seen designer comments and preliminary pictures indicating that each of those had had a second year of sets in development that never got released. And themes like Atlantis and Power Miners did get extended on the strength of their first-year sales. For better or for worse, Lego has managed to find more reliable success for many of their themes (original and licensed alike) in recent years than they did in the early 2000s/2010s, which consequently tends to mean fewer opportunities for new themes to be introduced to take their place.

It makes you wonder how many months of sales data they base a cancellation on. To not go into production or even into stock catalogues for stores suggests they make the cancellation decision after significantly less than a year of sales for the first wave.

Given the one year nature of multiple themes in a row - PQ, AC, GS, MF - it could be they were planned to be released as one year only but that there were other sets suggested in development that were not chosen for production in that year. Maybe the second year of Atlantis was found not to be so strong, leading to a decision to go for one year themes instead of two for all the similar themes following it. I enjoyed those one year themes. If there was one you didn't like, it was OK as there would be another completely different one along soon.

[Yoggington]

2 hours ago, MAB said:

It makes you wonder how many months of sales data they base a cancellation on. To not go into production or even into stock catalogues for stores suggests they make the cancellation decision after significantly less than a year of sales for the first wave.

Given the one year nature of multiple themes in a row - PQ, AC, GS, MF - it could be they were planned to be released as one year only but that there were other sets suggested in development that were not chosen for production in that year. Maybe the second year of Atlantis was found not to be so strong, leading to a decision to go for one year themes instead of two for all the similar themes following it. I enjoyed those one year themes. If there was one you didn't like, it was OK as there would be another completely different one along soon.

I would assume sales could nearly make the call after the first month. What was the demand at launch? How quickly did the second batch onto shelves sell out?

If these sales figures were below expectations/projections at all, then the only way they'd move to full development of a 'phase 2' would be if the following months unexpectedly reversed the initial lack for some reason.

[Clone OPatra]

Yeah I doubt LEGO had a true desire to carry on some of those themes mentioned to a second wave/year. Even with the themes that we know had more sets developed like Alien Conquest, it could very well be that they had more sets ready or ready-ish in case the theme overperformed, rather than planning to release the sets and then cancelling them if the theme underperformed. Obviously we don't know for sure and it might have varied.

Power Miners was a theme that carries on too long IMO, with the last sets becoming a garbled mess with terrible colour schemes, not to mention a messy release in North America. With several multi year themes it has felt like the first wave has had really strong cohesion and been thought out as a collective whole, while subsequent waves feel like LEGO flying by the seat of their pants. This isn't true for Ninjago but has felt true to me in themes like Power Miners, Chima, Atlantis to some extent, Space Police III to some extent. I don't mean that second or subsequent waves were bad in all cases, just that they were more random.

[MAB]

10 hours ago, Yoggington said:

I would assume sales could nearly make the call after the first month. What was the demand at launch? How quickly did the second batch onto shelves sell out?

I doubt they could have made a good decision within one month back in 2011-15. There weren't that many lego stores back then and a lot if the sales of the one year themes were through third parties and not through lego. It was such a different time then too, unlike today when there are so many people that rush to buy on day 1. Especially for a completely new theme, without any media support, it takes some time to get into people's minds.

9 hours ago, Clone OPatra said:

Yeah I doubt LEGO had a true desire to carry on some of those themes mentioned to a second wave/year. Even with the themes that we know had more sets developed like Alien Conquest, it could very well be that they had more sets ready or ready-ish in case the theme overperformed, rather than planning to release the sets and then cancelling them if the theme underperformed. Obviously we don't know for sure and it might have varied.

 This is my thinking too. A theme with six sets is likely to have had more proposed sets designed than actually go into production. 

[Alexandrina]

1 hour ago, MAB said:

There weren't that many lego stores back then

I'm not sure on exact dates but around about this time - and certainly a few years earlier when Agents came on the scene - the only Lego store in the UK was at Bluewater. I distinctly remember badgering my mum to drive me the hundred odd miles to go there just for the Lego store.

I'm inclined to agree with the idea that these themes were planned to be one-and-dones. Invariably when they got a second year it was smaller and with less exciting sets, and iirc even Ninjago had this pattern until it pushed through to become an evergreen theme. To me that says that the second year was a response to a theme doing unexpectedly well; themes that did consistently well beyond the second year don't get lumped in with these short-lived themes because they become standards, so the options to go off as precedent are limited.

[Johnny1360]

Unlike most people, I am very happy LEGO isn't like it was before my dark age, 1974. If it was, I would have never came back to LEGO, so for me there is very little nostalgia involved.

For me it was specifically a licensed set that brought me back, 75105 Millennium Falcon hooked me and the rest as they say is history. The funny part is, I am not really a Star Wars fan either, only seen the first three movies, decades ago at that, it was just such a cool set, especially when compared with 1974 building standards.

[icm]

Oh, I agree with you on that.

[danth]

3 hours ago, Johnny1360 said:

Unlike most people, I am very happy LEGO isn't like it was before my dark age, 1974. If it was, I would have never came back to LEGO, so for me there is very little nostalgia involved.

For me it was specifically a licensed set that brought me back, 75105 Millennium Falcon hooked me and the rest as they say is history. The funny part is, I am not really a Star Wars fan either, only seen the first three movies, decades ago at that, it was just such a cool set, especially when compared with 1974 building standards.

See, this is a great response! It's an actual opposing opinion. You actually like licensed sets and prefer things the way they are now. I can totally respect that. You sound like an actual Lego fan.

[The Island Chronicles]

5 hours ago, Johnny1360 said:

Unlike most people, I am very happy LEGO isn't like it was before my dark age, 1974.

I agree! My dark ages with Lego, especially for town-related sets, was in the late 90s to early 2000s where town sets were barely on the shelves and the late 2010s with the theme was mostly police crap. My response to you may just be another unpopular opinion, especially here. 2020-present day began a golden age for City sets. Thanks to the new, if not more successful, system of distributing City sets, those issues are solved. Along with the successful police and fire sets, we get bigger waves of town and great vehicles sets as well. We're even getting an extra town related set, a grocery store, this summer - which I cannot wait to see. I'm so glad it won't be a 4+ set I don't think I can thank Lego enough. We also got a school and an early hospital release. Tell me that the new person in charge of City sets isn't wonderful. 

[Ondra]

I think licensed themes are just for cost cutting and maximizing profits. Im seeing this also in Playmobil which solely insist on own themes...

These sets get free advertising, instant recognition, lego doesnt need to imagine every part of model.

They probably calculate all things to get this way...

 

There is creator for that and some sets are really interesting, but they dont get same love as for example speed champions sets if we talk about some cars.

I think thats why most classic themes are dead...

 

[Lion King]

Maybe it’s more unpopular than I imagine - I think Star Wars theme should be discontinued after 20 years of “evergreen”. 

Shocking, is it? 

[MAB]

46 minutes ago, DBlegonerd7 said:

Maybe it’s more unpopular than I imagine - I think Star Wars theme should be discontinued after 20 years of “evergreen”. 

Shocking, is it? 

And what would they replace one of their perpetual best selling themes with that would perform as well, in even harsher sales conditions after Disney shifts all its properties to a rival building block company?

[MAVERICK26]

On 4/5/2022 at 3:40 PM, DBlegonerd7 said:

Maybe it’s more unpopular than I imagine - I think Star Wars theme should be discontinued after 20 years of “evergreen”. 

Shocking, is it? 

I don't really get your argument. What would they replace it with? What sort of backlash would there be? How many fans would they lose?