Unpopular Opinions about LEGO

[Toastie]

4 minutes ago, Lyichir said:

Your descriptor for the Hidden Side sets (which committed the great crime of... using appropriately spooky illustrations instead of photos or renders) is a pretty good case study for part why Lego probably shifted to the black boxes for adult-focused sets.

What about all the other "pretty good cases"?

Best,
Thorsten

 

[Karalora]

Given that the 18+ sets are mostly designed for display rather than play, I'm not sure how else the boxes should be designed? They show what the assembled set looks like, against a plain background that makes the colors and shapes pop.

[FrightFlight]

13 hours ago, Lucarex said:

Personally (and I know many will disagree) I'm not a fan of the boring as hell black background boxes that seem to be ubiquitous these days, even on the IDEAS range.

I miss the gorgeous artwork on stuff like the Old Fishing Store, Ship in Bottle etc, hell, even the retinal haemorrhage-inducing Hidden Side sets had some creative originality.

Lego kind of has to do the whole bland, sleek black box look if they want them to sell well to their target demographic.
Most non-Lego enthusiast adults are (and forgive me for being a bit mean here,) very averse to more colorful, playful box designs as mentioned already by @Lyichir
It's not a Lego problem, it's a real problem that a lot of your average adults just don't have a lively bone in their body.

[FrightFlight]

Since I'm here though, here's my potentially unpopular Lego take:
The part budget excuse is embarrassing and I'm really surprised a lot of fans let Lego slip right on by with it. You're trying to tell me that Lego can do hundreds of separate prints and molds for Friends but can't do leg printing for characters in their premium hundreds of dollar sets? It doesn't make any sense. It isn't like in the early 2000's where Lego couldn't afford the crazy branches of colors and parts they had, they're making record profits.

[MAB]

4 hours ago, FrightFlight said:

It's not a Lego problem, it's a real problem that a lot of your average adults just don't have a lively bone in their body.

Or, they aren't interested in toys designed for children but are interested in models designed for adults. Having clearly distinguished packaging splits the toys vs models range. I hope that as the general population see lego producing two types of product, one for kids and one for adults, this will eventually lead to more adult themes that lego would not have done a decade ago, so things like horror franchises. 

4 hours ago, FrightFlight said:

You're trying to tell me that Lego can do hundreds of separate prints and molds for Friends but can't do leg printing for characters in their premium hundreds of dollar sets? 

They do have leg printing in $100s sets.

[danth]

13 hours ago, FrightFlight said:

It's not a Lego problem, it's a real problem that a lot of your average adults just don't have a lively bone in their body.

Well there's at least two kinds of adult. Nerds, and normies.

Nerds are already buying Marvel, Star Wars, and Harry Potter (etc) Lego sets.

Non-nerds generally don't buy Lego sets. The black box sets are going after them. "See, Lego is for cool people too! You can build guitars, hipster type writers, and Andy Warhols!"

[FrightFlight]

18 hours ago, MAB said:

Or, they aren't interested in toys designed for children but are interested in models designed for adults. Having clearly distinguished packaging splits the toys vs models range. I hope that as the general population see lego producing two types of product, one for kids and one for adults, this will eventually lead to more adult themes that lego would not have done a decade ago, so things like horror franchises. 

They do have leg printing in $100s sets.

Lego is a toy designed for children though? Sure, those 18+ sets have a fancy presentation box and a few extra black bricks to put the scenes on a nice display stand, but it's still a toy. Adults need to get over themselves about being immature or else we'll keep seeing these 500 dollar dust collectors continue to fly onto shelves.

I used leg printing as an example, but what I'm more speaking to as well is the over-reliance on stickers, face prints being reused for dozens of characters who don't resemble one another and so on.

9 hours ago, danth said:

Well there's at least two kinds of adult. Nerds, and normies.

Nerds are already buying Marvel, Star Wars, and Harry Potter (etc) Lego sets.

Non-nerds generally don't buy Lego sets. The black box sets are going after them. "See, Lego is for cool people too! You can build guitars, hipster type writers, and Andy Warhols!"

I didn't want to use the term "normie" in my original reply, but yeah that was sort of what I was talking about.
Your dichotomy of adult Lego fans is a little inaccurate in my opinion. The way I see it there's really two main types of adult fans. The AFOLs, who often have a deep knowledge of Lego and regularly purchase sets of all types. And the "normies", adults who don't really understand Lego and instead see it more as a buildable Funko Pop for them to show their media brand loyalty. Now obviously not everyone falls neatly into these categories, but they're the opposite ends of the spectrum of adult Lego fans in my eyes.

[MAB]

5 hours ago, FrightFlight said:

Lego is a toy designed for children though? Sure, those 18+ sets have a fancy presentation box and a few extra black bricks to put the scenes on a nice display stand, but it's still a toy. Adults need to get over themselves about being immature or else we'll keep seeing these 500 dollar dust collectors continue to fly onto shelves.

No it isn't a toy designed for children, not any more. It used to be that all sets were aimed at children but they have recently embraced not just AFOLs but also 'normal' adults and designed sets for adults. That is why they have 18+ on the box. There are many sets that are clearly display models, not toys for children. Much of the product is for children, all the 4+, 7-12, 12+ etc type eets. Those are toys for kids. The 18+ sets are models for adults. They keep making $500 sets which suggests that they think there is a market for premium adult models (or toys if you prefer to call them that.) For anyone wanting colourful boxes, there are plenty of sets to choose from.

5 hours ago, FrightFlight said:

Your dichotomy of adult Lego fans is a little inaccurate in my opinion. The way I see it there's really two main types of adult fans. The AFOLs, who often have a deep knowledge of Lego and regularly purchase sets of all types. 

There are plenty of AFOLs that specialise in one theme. 

[danth]

16 hours ago, FrightFlight said:

I didn't want to use the term "normie" in my original reply, but yeah that was sort of what I was talking about.
Your dichotomy of adult Lego fans is a little inaccurate in my opinion. The way I see it there's really two main types of adult fans. The AFOLs, who often have a deep knowledge of Lego and regularly purchase sets of all types. And the "normies", adults who don't really understand Lego and instead see it more as a buildable Funko Pop for them to show their media brand loyalty. Now obviously not everyone falls neatly into these categories, but they're the opposite ends of the spectrum of adult Lego fans in my eyes.

I did say at least two kinds of adult. :) And I wasn't describing Lego fans, I was describing adults who aren't really into Lego per se (like people who buy Marvel and SW sets but nothing else).

I consider AFOLs (as you described them) to be a third kind of adult.

[Ondra]

Nowadays money tiers for GWP on S@H is completely absurd.

I remember when they throw polybag for decent spending, but now these tiers are completely insane for most time.

Yeah now these gifts are sets on their own, but I rather pay for this sets than spend these high prices every month when I can buy most of icons sets about third of price lower in regular online stores.

 

Also lego icons cars, are now too much pricey. I remembered when these cars were under creator range and it was great. Now price/piece ratio is even worse than licensed set...

[MAB]

Some of the thresholds are high these days but then the quality of the GWPs is much higher than they used to be. 

That said, there is currently a UK offer, spend £35 and get a free Easter chick polybag. So there are still some low spend thresholds. And the rabbit in a basket for £65 threshold.

I imagine the change was based on responses to surveys and the change in sales over the recent past. I remember them asking about GWPs in surveys and there were options for better GWPs at higher thresholds. And when their sales volumes are so good, they don't need to give discounts/ free gifts. Instead they use them as a way to encourage much larger orders. Higher thresholds also seem to help make them last longer as resellers don't place multiple low threshold orders and clear out the stocks.

There is also a huge number of GWPs these days. It used to be we'd get 4-5 a year. We've had about 10 or 12 already this year, it is hard to keep up. Buyers not liking a GWP willing to wait can now skip GWPs knowing another will be along soon that they might like better.

[BrickG]

On 3/24/2023 at 3:32 AM, FrightFlight said:

I didn't want to use the term "normie" in my original reply, but yeah that was sort of what I was talking about.
Your dichotomy of adult Lego fans is a little inaccurate in my opinion. The way I see it there's really two main types of adult fans. The AFOLs, who often have a deep knowledge of Lego and regularly purchase sets of all types. And the "normies", adults who don't really understand Lego and instead see it more as a buildable Funko Pop for them to show their media brand loyalty. Now obviously not everyone falls neatly into these categories, but they're the opposite ends of the spectrum of adult Lego fans in my eyes.

That's a pretty narrow view of things.

[danth]

Here's a sentiment I truly hate.

"If Lego doesn't make sets you like, just build MOCs".

This is about as close as you can get to an "F you" to fans.

MOCing is hard. Some people are bad at it. Most of us aren't going to be able to come up with something as good looking and stable as a full time professional designer with all of TLGs resources at their disposal. And, any artist sees all the flaws in their own work, and every way it fell short of their vision. But you can't do that with someone else's design - you can only appreciate it for what it is. Kinda like food -- it tastes better if I didn't have to make it.

Buying parts from Bricklink is expensive and time consuming.

With a set, you get all the parts you need in numbered bags, in one package, at a price far lower than what those bricks would cost shipped from X different sellers on Bricklink. Plus the parts will be new. And you can share in the experience with all your fellow fans who build the same set, come up with alternate builds, etc.

Plus official sets give you new prints and new colors -- MOCs don't.

Also - if anyone really believes in "just make MOCs", then they're all for Lego not making sets any more and just releasing brick packs, right? RIGHT? Except no, they don't believe that.

"Just makes MOCs" is a way for people who are perennially happy with the status quo to dismiss more passionate fans.

Edited April 4, 2023 by danth

[Karalora]

47 minutes ago, danth said:

Here's a sentiment I truly hate.

"If Lego doesn't make sets you like, just build MOCs".

This is about as close as you can get to an "F you" to fans.

MOCing is hard. Some people are bad at it. Most of us aren't going to be able to come up with something as good looking and stable as a full time professional designer with all of TLGs resources at their disposal. And, any artist sees all the flaws in their own work, and every way it fell short of their vision. But you can't do that with someone else's design - you can only appreciate it for what it is. Kinda like food -- it tastes better if I didn't have to make it.

Buying parts from Bricklink is expensive and time consuming.

It's gatekeeping, is what it is. "You must be this adroit at MOCing to be part of our AFOL community." Which of course leaves people below that skill level without a community...and without support for getting to said skill level. This is certainly a source of frustration for me.

[The Island Chronicles]

9 hours ago, danth said:

Here's a sentiment I truly hate.

"If Lego doesn't make sets you like, just build MOCs".

This is about as close as you can get to an "F you" to fans.

MOCing is hard. Some people are bad at it. Most of us aren't going to be able to come up with something as good looking and stable as a full time professional designer with all of TLGs resources at their disposal. And, any artist sees all the flaws in their own work, and every way it fell short of their vision. But you can't do that with someone else's design - you can only appreciate it for what it is. Kinda like food -- it tastes better if I didn't have to make it.

Buying parts from Bricklink is expensive and time consuming.

With a set, you get all the parts you need in numbered bags, in one package, at a price far lower than what those bricks would cost shipped from X different sellers on Bricklink. Plus the parts will be new. And you can share in the experience with all your fellow fans who build the same set, come up with alternate builds, etc.

Plus official sets give you new prints and new colors -- MOCs don't.

Also - if anyone really believes in "just make MOCs", then they're all for Lego not making sets any more and just releasing brick packs, right? RIGHT? Except no, they don't believe that.

"Just makes MOCs" is a way for people who are perennially happy with the status quo to dismiss more passionate fans.

Danth, despite the fact that we have differed on a lot of things on this forum, I actually agree with you here. I mostly spend time in the town section of these forums because I'm a town builder. So I don't see that statement much anymore. During the police fad of the late-2010s for the City theme, that was a thing that I would hear a lot and that frustrated me a great deal. So much so that I often ended up losing my cool and getting into trouble with the mods as a result - I do apologize for the way I handled those. But yeah, I empathize with you 100% there because I know how that felt, especially when it came to City sets. But then 2022 came along and sorta.....well.....shut the nay sayers up, given that a lot of the ones I had experience with stated that City would never do a grocery store or school set. Only they DID do them and BOTH of them came out the SAME YEAR!!!!! Along with that, we also got a taste of all three first responder locations on the same wave; police station, fire department and hospital - which in my unpopular opinion, topped their predecessors. Ok, so we didn't get a bus terminal like I wanted. But.......that problem was solved in no time by buying the 2022 train station. A simple removal of the rail pieces and elevated platform along with several other modifications can convert the set into a bus terminal with no hassle. A quick visit to my Instagram will show you how I did it. So yeah I agree with you! Though....I wouldn't say it was an F you to fans. A "Nobody cares! Deal with it or find another hobby!" is more like it. Which imo is an even worse thing to say to AFOLs who recommend something new for Lego. Its like you never really wanted them there in the first place. 

Edited April 5, 2023 by The Brick Boss

[MAB]

If LEGO doesn't make sets you like .... then you are probably very picky. There is such a large range of set types and themes that if you can't find anything you like, then I feel sorry for you.

 

[Karalora]

1 hour ago, MAB said:

If LEGO doesn't make sets you like .... then you are probably very picky. There is such a large range of set types and themes that if you can't find anything you like, then I feel sorry for you.

I think "sets you like" is meant to be parsed as "particular sets that you wish existed," not "any sets you like."

[FrightFlight]

1 hour ago, MAB said:

If LEGO doesn't make sets you like .... then you are probably very picky. There is such a large range of set types and themes that if you can't find anything you like, then I feel sorry for you.

 

I feel like there are holes in Lego's market coverage, though I obviously don't have the data they have to back up their choices on what sets they do and don't make.
The big gap for me is more affordable "playhouse" type sets that aren't just 6 stud wide afterthoughts next to two vehicles in the city line. You get a lot of excellently made buildings of all sorts of utility in the Friends line, but almost none for City. There's the creator line and the modular buildings, but those are either limited by their design or are expensive and not really things one can "play" with or regularly pose figures in. Even classic town was better than modern City in this regard.

[danth]

1 hour ago, Karalora said:

I think "sets you like" is meant to be parsed as "particular sets that you wish existed," not "any sets you like."

Thank you! Exactly what I meant.

I could have worded it better but I expect a little charity from readers at least...

[icm]

@danth, this is one of the things where I agree with you 100%.

[dr_spock]

MOCing is hard work. Commissioning someone to design and build something to your liking is an option.

 

[Peppermint_M]

Sets you wish existed is pretty infinite. 

I wish there was a minifig scale Gypsy Danger. I highly doubt that will ever be a set! I am able to MOC but the space required for such a build, let alone the bricks, I would have to be very rich, or get a commission from someone who is!

While some may see "Make a MOC" as gatekeeping or a slap in the face, I have never used it as such. I would forever encourage people to try and build for themselves and happily share tips to achieve something they are looking for. 

It is not impossible to colour swap a car set so it can be civilian and not police. Friends has lots of private homes as sets, even just swapping certain colours is near to making a MOC and will provide you a close approximation to "what you want" (if more houses is indeed what you want). 

It is never to mean offence or to rank above someone 

18 hours ago, danth said:

if anyone really believes in "just make MOCs", then they're all for Lego not making sets any more and just releasing brick packs, right? RIGHT? Except no, they don't believe that

A girl can dream! Not to be facetious, but if TLG could provide all production parts in all production colours, it would be my form of heaven. Maybe add in people packs/accessory sets to populate with minifigures and perhaps prints on certain parts (like tech, livery, signage)... That would be wonderful. 

 

[MAB]

1 hour ago, Peppermint_M said:

Sets you wish existed is pretty infinite.

It is even worse than that. It is not just that they have to exist but that they have to be available for sale at all times too.

[Feuer Zug]

I agree that the sentiment about MOCing your desires is bad. I'm not as good or as blessed to have the resources some have at their disposal. I appreciate that many here understand that and are still uplifting in their comments when I do post work and provide constructive comments on ways to better it.

The selection of offerings from LEGO has definitely improved in most areas. Even taking sets and modding them is easier because of the wide breadth of starting points.

1 hour ago, Peppermint_M said:

...if TLG could provide all production parts in all production colours, it would be my form of heaven. Maybe add in people packs/accessory sets to populate with minifigures and perhaps prints on certain parts (like tech, livery, signage)...

That about sums a lot of my hopes and desires from LEGO in one statement. Of course, then I'd have to sell a kidney or three to afford it all.

[danth]

5 hours ago, Peppermint_M said:

I would forever encourage people to try and build for themselves and happily share tips to achieve something they are looking for.  

It is never to mean offence or to rank above someone 

Encouraging MOCing is great. I'm sure I've done it before. I can't imagine you doing what I'm talking about.

What I'm talking about is, in the context of a conversation about an old theme being great, or themes you wish existed, or just someone saying "I with they would make sets like X", someone will pop into the thread -- someone who seemingly has no interest in the discussion otherwise -- and say "If you don't like Lego's current offering, just make MOCs". It's just a complete wet blanket, dismissal/rejection of the entire conversation, and a failure to read the room. And of course it's also a coded "never complain about Lego's current offering of sets." 

There's a certain toxic personality type that can never let someone hope, wish, or lament, on a forum that specifically exists for it, and just wants to dismiss, invalidate, and shut down others. I'm just kind of tired of it. EDIT: Well, maybe I'm being dramatic. It's definitely a pet peeve of mine. A micro-aggression where the annoyance builds and builds over the years.

3 hours ago, MAB said:

It is even worse than that. It is not just that they have to exist but that they have to be available for sale at all times too.

I agree. That's bad. We don't need an X-Wing every year. It's getting ridiculous. It's a 45 year old design, from a franchise that hasn't had a good movie in almost as long.

Edited April 5, 2023 by danth