Unpopular Opinions about LEGO

[MR Swordfish]

On the issue of licensed Lego vs. original themes, I really do think it's more about adults than anything. You can sell a kid (or just their their parents) anything from a licensed Star Wars set to a generic Knights & Castles, so it hardly matters. That box is checked. But the average adult is only likely to buy a Lego version of something they already have investment in, which is more likely to be an Imperial Star Destroyer than Castle #58. An everyday adult is only really going to buy an original set if it's a really cool build, which I think a lot of nicer sets aim for today. It's only really the most dedicated Afol collectors who would actually buy lots of original kid-targeted playsets... but that is still a picky group of people that Lego can afford to neglect.

I terribly miss the original Lego themes of my childhood. I wish I could get the Lego shop catalog and enthusiastically browse further re-hashes of an underwater theme, a miners theme, an adventuring theme, an aliens in space theme, yadda yadda... I wouldn't buy much of it though, even if it looked amazing. And there lies the problem, I think. I plead guilty of only buying Lego cars these days because they make real cars with Speed Champions. If they were still making generic wacky builds like the old Racers line, they'd almost never have my dollar. I am part of the problem.

Edit: My partial defense of original themes being better for kids would be: In theory, getting a kid invested in your theme brings them back to your toys, rather than just any new Star Wars toy. But I suspect it's just really hard & expensive to get a kid genuinely invested in an original theme these days. There is an insane amount of media competition these days, its nothing like the '80s, '90s, or even '00s. It's probably a waste of time and money to design an original theme that you cant afford to market intensely enough to reap benefits. Lego's most successful original themes like Bionicle or Ninjago have extensive additional media to help them get kids invested. It's probably more necessary today than ever, and they just can't do it with everything. So why fight Star Wars for attention when you can just profit off it? And ultimately, selling a kid any Lego set is a promotion for any other Lego set, so maybe kids won't necessarily be buying another Star Wars toy. Maybe they'll just want more Lego, if you can get at least one kit into their hands.

Ultimately, when you look at any succeeding company, there's a decent chance that they do what they do because it has proven to work, and what works isn't necessarily what was fun about something decades ago

Edited June 13, 2024 by MR Swordfish

[SpacePolice89]

On 6/9/2024 at 3:17 PM, MAB said:

People buying licensed LEGO sets are just as much fans of LEGO as people that buy in-house sets. 

I doubt that. Some are for sure but others buy just because of the license.

On 6/8/2024 at 4:26 PM, Karalora said:

That's always going to be subjective, but in any case profit margins don't care about better. I get how frustrating it is when something you have loved for years finds increased success by changing into something you don't like as much, but if you had to choose between LEGO that less reliably caters to your tastes, and LEGO that is struggling to stay in business and maybe can't be obtained as easily as you're used to, which would you prefer?

Sorry for the late answer but I've been on a vacation to Billund. I'd like to see a return to the style of products and themes they had in the 80s and early 90s when they made a yearly stable profit from their own designs and themes. 

[MAB]

2 hours ago, SpacePolice89 said:

I doubt that. Some are for sure but others buy just because of the license.

 

You can doubt it all you like. If they are buying LEGO then they are a LEGO fan. Being a fan of the license too does not mean that they are not a LEGO fan. There are many other products or manufacturers that they can choose but they choose LEGO, making them a LEGO fan.

[Karalora]

3 hours ago, SpacePolice89 said:

Sorry for the late answer but I've been on a vacation to Billund. I'd like to see a return to the style of products and themes they had in the 80s and early 90s when they made a yearly stable profit from their own designs and themes. 

I didn't ask what you thought the ideal situation would be--I asked between these two options, which do you prefer? We can't blithely assume that in the year 2024, 30-40 years past what you think was LEGO's peak era, a return to that business model would work with current consumer tastes.

[SpacePolice89]

8 hours ago, MAB said:

You can doubt it all you like. If they are buying LEGO then they are a LEGO fan. Being a fan of the license too does not mean that they are not a LEGO fan. There are many other products or manufacturers that they can choose but they choose LEGO, making them a LEGO fan.

No. For example I bought McFarlane sports figures because they made figures for my favorite NHL team, not because I was a fan of McFarlane products. When the license switched to Imports Dragon I started buying their figures instead. I've never been a fan of either of the companies I just bought the figures because they had the NHL license and made NHL products because I am a fan of the Anaheim Ducks.

7 hours ago, Karalora said:

I didn't ask what you thought the ideal situation would be--I asked between these two options, which do you prefer? We can't blithely assume that in the year 2024, 30-40 years past what you think was LEGO's peak era, a return to that business model would work with current consumer tastes.

If I had to choose between those two bad options I'd choose the first one but I believe there is a third and better option that I mentioned in my previous comment.

[MAB]

4 hours ago, SpacePolice89 said:

No. For example I bought McFarlane sports figures because they made figures for my favorite NHL team, not because I was a fan of McFarlane products. When the license switched to Imports Dragon I started buying their figures instead. I've never been a fan of either of the companies I just bought the figures because they had the NHL license and made NHL products because I am a fan of the Anaheim Ducks.

 

And how many competing manufacturers were there for similar products? It sounds like you had no choice if you wanted to buy figures for that franchise. If you google Srar Wars toys, or Marvel toys, or Lord of the Rings toys, there are loads. Anyone choosing the LEGO toys over other manufacturers is a LEGO fan. They are not buying LEGO only because nobody else makes toys for their interests, they are choosing to buy the LEGO version.

Even if they just buy Star Wars LEGO,  they are still a LEGO fan. A fan of LEGO Star Wars is just as much a LEGO fan as a fan of LEGO City or LEGO Modulars. And from a financial point of view, probably a better customer for LEGO. 

Buying in-house themes does not make you special or more of a fan than buyers of other themes.

Edited June 17, 2024 by MAB

[Yperio_Bricks]

15 hours ago, SpacePolice89 said:

Sorry for the late answer but I've been on a vacation to Billund. I'd like to see a return to the style of products and themes they had in the 80s and early 90s when they made a yearly stable profit from their own designs and themes. 

Lego neglecting 40 years of development and going straight back into the 80s? Cobi, Bluebrixx, Mega and all Chinese companies would love to see that happen!

[Karalora]

8 hours ago, SpacePolice89 said:

If I had to choose between those two bad options I'd choose the first one but I believe there is a third and better option that I mentioned in my previous comment.

And I think you're wrong. I think if LEGO ditched all their licenses and went back to in-house themes only--especially just the ones from that time period--their market share would shrink so drastically that they would struggle to stay in business, production would drop off sharply, and it would be harder for you to find what you like than it is now. Hence why I framed the question the way I did.

The genie of licensing is out of the bottle and there's no going back.

[SpacePolice89]

4 hours ago, Yperio_Bricks said:

Lego neglecting 40 years of development and going straight back into the 80s? Cobi, Bluebrixx, Mega and all Chinese companies would love to see that happen!

Keeping the design language and overall feel doesn't mean no development and innovation. The Galaxy Explorer and Lion Knights Castle are examples of that. Similar modern but simpler builds with new techniques could be used for regular in house themes. There are thousands of original themes MOCs using modern techniques that would be perfect as official sets.

[DonQuixote]

20 hours ago, SpacePolice89 said:

I doubt that. Some are for sure but others buy just because of the license.

Sorry for the late answer but I've been on a vacation to Billund. I'd like to see a return to the style of products and themes they had in the 80s and early 90s when they made a yearly stable profit from their own designs and themes. 

Billund, nice. I have to go back there. Last time I went  there was 1993. The year of the Dragon Masters Yeah, eighties and nineties are the best!

34 minutes ago, SpacePolice89 said:

Keeping the design language and overall feel doesn't mean no development and innovation. The Galaxy Explorer and Lion Knights Castle are examples of that. Similar modern but simpler builds with new techniques could be used for regular in house themes. There are thousands of original themes MOCs using modern techniques that would be perfect as official sets.

Agree. Lion knights castle and Galaxy Explorer are fantastic sets. Both 10/10 for me. 

5 hours ago, Yperio_Bricks said:

Lego neglecting 40 years of development and going straight back into the 80s? Cobi, Bluebrixx, Mega and all Chinese companies would love to see that happen!

I like classic (spaghetti) western. Lego is not doing anything with that anymore . What a shame.

That's why I buy my western sets at Bluebrixx and I use Lego minifigs with it. I am very happy with the quality of Bluebrixx.

Maybe they were bad in the past but they use Qunlong bricks now and they are the same quality as Lego. Same clutch power, same feel and ofcourse just like Lego same color deviations. 

I also bought Drogon (Game of thrones) from Megablocks and the quality is also just as good as Lego. More expensive than Bluebrixx, yes. But oh man, I have never seen such a good brick build dragon with cloth wings. The design is way superior than the dragon of Lego Dungeons and dragons. 

I still love Lego but I am not a purist anymore. 

Right now, I am waiting for Lego BDP Mountain Fortress. Only 1,5 month to go! 

[Yperio_Bricks]

31 minutes ago, DonQuixote said:

I like classic (spaghetti) western. Lego is not doing anything with that anymore . What a shame.

That's why I buy my western sets at Bluebrixx and I use Lego minifigs with it. I am very happy with the quality of Bluebrixx.

Maybe they were bad in the past but they use Qunlong bricks now and they are the same quality as Lego. Same clutch power, same feel and ofcourse just like Lego same color deviations. 

I also bought Drogon (Game of thrones) from Megablocks and the quality is also just as good as Lego. More expensive than Bluebrixx, yes. But oh man, I have never seen such a good brick build dragon with cloth wings. The design is way superior than the dragon of Lego Dungeons and dragons. 

I still love Lego but I am not a purist anymore. 

Right now, I am waiting for Lego BDP Mountain Fortress. Only 1,5 month to go! 

What i wanted to say is, that the other companies would love to see Lego travel back in time and neglect 40 years of development in bricks, pieces and design because Lego's market share would shrink drastically while the other companies would expand a lot!

You are doing the right thing, buying what you like from other companies 

Being a moccer, the most imprtant thing for me are the minifigures, so so far i bought only Lego, but i like to see the other brick companies doing well because it is better for us customers when there is no monopoly.

[SpacePolice89]

54 minutes ago, DonQuixote said:

Billund, nice. I have to go back there. Last time I went  there was 1993. The year of the Dragon Masters Yeah, eighties and nineties are the best!

Back then the Pirate Boats was my favorite ride (it still is by the way) and when the Dragon ride and the castle was brand new I went there a rainy day and there were minimal lines so I went probably six or seven times in a row.

[DonQuixote]

15 minutes ago, SpacePolice89 said:

Back then the Pirate Boats was my favorite ride (it still is by the way) and when the Dragon ride and the castle was brand new I went there a rainy day and there were minimal lines so I went probably six or seven times in a row.

Well I didn't visit the parc for the rides but for the impressive Lego builds. I was really impressed by the life size Eldorado Fortress, Sitting Bull statue, Amsterdam with canals and the giant medieval castle. 

37 minutes ago, Yperio_Bricks said:

 

Being a moccer, the most imprtant thing for me are the minifigures, so so far i bought only Lego, but i like to see the other brick companies doing well because it is better for us customers when there is no monopoly.

Bluebrixx is doing very well. They have their own stores just like Lego. The fun thing is, is that the closest Bluebrixx store in Aachen, is closer to me than the closest Lego store. The only thing I don't like about Bluebrixx is that their sets mostly have only digital instructions. But it's also a lot cheaper(around 5cent per piece) so I can live with it. 

Edited June 17, 2024 by DonQuixote

[Lion King]

8 hours ago, Yperio_Bricks said:

Lego neglecting 40 years of development and going straight back into the 80s? Cobi, Bluebrixx, Mega and all Chinese companies would love to see that happen!

 

8 hours ago, Yperio_Bricks said:

Lego neglecting 40 years of development and going straight back into the 80s? Cobi, Bluebrixx, Mega and all Chinese companies would love to see that happen!

Maybe you are a prophet after all… Imperial Lego’s downfall. 

Anyways I do NOT want licensed themes to be competely gone. I do NOT want Lego to go back to in-house themes. I only WANT about 50/50 ratio. Period.  

I only got into Lego when i saw Star Wars and Harry Potter themes in early 2000s and, at the same, I saw some cool in-hous sets. 

[SpacePolice89]

2 hours ago, DonQuixote said:

Well I didn't visit the parc for the rides but for the impressive Lego builds. I was really impressed by the life size Eldorado Fortress, Sitting Bull statue, Amsterdam with canals and the giant medieval castle. 

The pirate boats was/is my favorite because of the fantastic builds. Every time I visit Legoland I take that ride several times just to look at the builds.

[MAB]

13 hours ago, Lion King said:

 

Maybe you are a prophet after all… Imperial Lego’s downfall. 

Anyways I do NOT want licensed themes to be competely gone. I do NOT want Lego to go back to in-house themes. I only WANT about 50/50 ratio. Period.  

There is about a 50:50 ratio, if you count sets. 

[Lion King]

1 hour ago, MAB said:

There is about a 50:50 ratio, if you count sets. 

Nope. 

[MAB]

2 hours ago, Lion King said:

Nope. 

So when you go into a LEGO store and look at the shelves, do you not see the unlicensed sets? Do you find that themes like Harry Potter take up the same amount of shelf space as City? As the ones I go into are split pretty much down the middle. Licensed themes with a small number of sets do not take up anywhere near the amount of shelf space as much larger licensed or unlicensed themes. That is why it is much better to compare the number of licensed / unlicensed sets rather than the number of themes.

If you want more unlicensed themes, then it suggests that you do not like the unlicensed themes that LEGO currently produces. 

[MAB]

This is the current 2024 list on Brickset:

{Unknown} (2)
Animal Crossing (9)
Architecture (1)
Art (3)
Books (21)
BrickHeadz (18)
Bricklink (10)
City (52)
Classic (5)
Collectable Minifigures (33)
Creator (22)
DC Comics Super Heroes (8)
Despicable Me (5)
Disney (26)
Dreamzzz (17)
Duplo (21)
Friends (44)
Gabby's Dollhouse (3)
Gear (79)
Harry Potter (18)
Icons (22)
Ideas (8)
Jurassic World (9)
Marvel Super Heroes (33)
Minecraft (22)
Miscellaneous (11)
Monkie Kid (10)
Ninjago (37)
Promotional (19)
Seasonal (9)
Sonic the Hedgehog (7)
Speed Champions (10)
Star Wars (46)
Super Mario (14)
Technic (22)
The Legend of Zelda (1)
Wicked (4)

These numbers are a bit skewed as they contain anything flagged as that theme including promotional and polybags.

I have marked themes that are licensed only as bold and unlicensed as italic. There are 14 bold, in total 205 sets. There are 8 italic, 188 sets. So even though the number of licensed themes is about double unlicensed, the number of sets in each case is about the same. If you repeat this analysis for any year in the past ten years or so, the numbers are about the same. 

And when you dig a it deeper ... 41 City sets cost $9.99 or more, so could be called regular sets (as in not promos or polybags). For Friends, that number is 35. For Ninjago, it is 21. For Creator, it is 17. For Dreamzzz, it is 13. For Star Wars, it is 18. For Marvel, it is 21. For Harry Potter, it is 15. And so on. There are more licensed themes, but there are far fewer sets per theme. If you add Star Wars and Marvel, the total number of different sets is less than the number of different City sets.

This is why when I go into a store, I see that about half the shelves are full of unlicensed sets and half are full of licensed.

[Black Falcon]

4 hours ago, Lion King said:

Nope. 

Just writing nope, doesn´t really bring the discussion any further ;). Would be good to give arguments alongside your statement and/or a reason why you disagree ;).

[danth]

5 hours ago, MAB said:

BrickHeadz (18)
Speed Champions (10)

All known 2024 sets for these are licensed I think.

Edited June 18, 2024 by danth

[icm]

Yeah, Speed Champions of all things doesn't count as an unlicensed theme! And most Technic sets are licensed too, which is often disappointing. CMFs and Ideas are about half-and-half in terms of licensing. Icons are mostly licensed. And are we really counting Gear as a theme?

Edited June 18, 2024 by icm

[Lion King]

MAB, just nope. Plus, Bricklink is not offical. Books are not produced by Lego directly unless the company does produce exclusive minifigures only. 

Good job counting sets but you didn’t divid Icons, Ideas, CMFs into two groups. Planet Earth and Orbit Moon is only non-licensed in Technic theme, I think. 

Edited June 18, 2024 by Lion King

[icm]

There are four non licensed Technic Space sets this year. But yeah, certainly Books don't count as an unlicensed theme either.

Edited June 18, 2024 by icm

[MAB]

13 hours ago, icm said:

Yeah, Speed Champions of all things doesn't count as an unlicensed theme! And most Technic sets are licensed too, which is often disappointing. CMFs and Ideas are about half-and-half in terms of licensing. Icons are mostly licensed. And are we really counting Gear as a theme?

Speed Champions has had a mixture of licensed and unlicensed over the years, as have brickheadz. I didn't count either as licensed or unlicensed.  Technic is also fairly mixed. These themes are also a bit different to the more regular playset type themes. But of course you could go through and look at every set in every theme. There is also some confusion between what is licensed or not. Is a car with a sticker a licensed set when leaving those stickers off produces a decent unlicensed car. Then apply it to the objects, such as the Polaroid camera or real world objects.  The lines between licensed and unlicensed become very blurred. Technic is also a bit different in that being a different system it tends to have its own subset of fans that identity along the style of build rather than because of the names of the companies on the stickers applied to the models.

Gear is listed as an entity at brickset where the data comes from. 

13 hours ago, icm said:

There are four non licensed Technic Space sets this year. But yeah, certainly Books don't count as an unlicensed theme either.

So why are you counting them as unlicensed?

13 hours ago, Lion King said:

MAB, just nope. Plus, Bricklink is not offical. Books are not produced by Lego directly unless the company does produce exclusive minifigures only. 

Good job counting sets but you didn’t divid Icons, Ideas, CMFs into two groups. Planet Earth and Orbit Moon is only non-licensed in Technic theme, I think. 

What has bricklink got to do with it? The list is from BRICKSET.

And what have books got to do with it? I specifically excluded those from either licensed or unlicensed. 

If you cannot find unlicensed sets that suit your taste, then it sounds like you are not a fan of modern LEGO.  There are huge numbers of sets available compared to in the past, it is just that the way they do modern unlicensed themes has meant that there are many more sets in smaller numbers of themes.

Of course I didn't count CMF. These are not traditional sets and take very little space in store and are both licensed and unlicensed. Similarly, I didn't include unlicensed baseplates, brick separators, the entire pick a brick wall, build a minifigure towers and so on.

The point is, if you go into a LEGO store or toy store it is about 50:50 licensed to unlicensed. Supermarkets near me are similar, although these tend to have more unlicensed as the larger sets are usually exclusives or D2C and supermarkets also tend to focus on smaller sets for kids.

Edited June 19, 2024 by MAB