42110 - Land Rover Defender - MODs and Improvements

[chlego]

25 minutes ago, noahtheb said:

Thanks for the advice! According to what you have told me, here is what I need to buy to motorize my Defender:

1 x BuWizz   $149 / 122 Euro

1 x 42124    $129 / 106 Euro

1 x 88004 Servo Motor(for steering)   $15-90 / 12-74 Euro

(Price translation from Google, apologies if it is incorrect.) 

 

If you get the BuWizz, you don't need the 42124, since its system is an alternative to the BuWizz.

The 42124 is from LEGO, the BuWizz is a 3rd-party company compatible with LEGO.

If you get the 42124 and not the BuWizz, you don't need a Servo Motor, but you'll need another L/XL motor (the newer version, check on Lego.com).

If you get the BuWizz, you'll need the servo, but no additional motors

[Some Belgian LEGO Fan]

19 minutes ago, noahtheb said:

Thanks for the advice! According to what you have told me, here is what I need to buy to motorize my Defender:

1 x BuWizz   $149 / 122 Euro

1 x 42124    $129 / 106 Euro

(Price translation from Google, apologies if it is incorrect.) 

 

Not so fast! Sorry, my answer was not complete...

I thought you only wanted to discuss the driving part, so I didn't pay attention to the steering in my answer.

But first, do you know the difference between LEGO Power Functions and LEGO Powered Up? Take a look at this video:

The connector is different and Power Fuctions can only use a servo motor for steering (4th from left). Powered Up motors have a position sensor built in and therefore can use a L (or XL) motor for steering. There are 2 Powered Up servo motors (now called angular motors) as well, but they are not covered in this video and quite expensive.

If you choose the older Power Functions (PF), you need the following to make the Defender RC:

• 2 L, 1 XL or 2 XL PF motors for drive (1 L motor works for lighter vehicles, but not the Defender)
• 1 PF servo motor for steering
• 1 standard PF battery box and 1 SBrick
  or 1 BuWizz 2.0 (has battery built in)
  or 1 standard PF battery box, 1 PF IR receiver and one PF IR remote control (2 models)

Mind that the PF IR receiver cannot handle 2 XL motors, but I wouldn't choose the IR option anyway...

If you choose the newer Powered Up (PU), you need the following:

• 2 L, 1 XL or 2 XL PU motors for drive
• 1 L PU motor or 1 PU small angular motor for steering
• 1 LEGO Contrul+ hub
  or 1 BuWizz 3.0

BuWizz will in most cases be the better choice, but mind that you need a different version for Power Functions and for Powered Up.

[noahtheb]

.

Edited May 16, 2021 by noahtheb
Wrote this comment looking only at the 13th and not the 14th page.

[noahtheb]

2 hours ago, chlego said:

If you get the BuWizz, you'll need the servo, but no additional motors

I did some research on BuWizz, and I'm not quite sure I understand what you're saying. From my knowledge, the BuWizz is a Bluetooth-controlled battery box with no motors. Does the BuWizz block come with more motors?

2 hours ago, Some Belgian LEGO Fan said:

Not so fast! Sorry, my answer was not complete...

I thought you only wanted to discuss the driving part, so I didn't pay attention to the steering in my answer.

But first, do you know the difference between LEGO Power Functions and LEGO Powered Up? Take a look at this video:

The connector is different and Power Fuctions can only use a servo motor for steering (4th from left). Powered Up motors have a position sensor built in and therefore can use a L (or XL) motor for steering. There are 2 Powered Up servo motors (now called angular motors) as well, but they are not covered in this video and quite expensive.

If you choose the older Power Functions (PF), you need the following to make the Defender RC:

• 2 L, 1 XL or 2 XL PF motors for drive (1 L motor works for lighter vehicles, but not the Defender)
• 1 PF servo motor for steering
• 1 standard PF battery box and 1 SBrick
  or 1 BuWizz 2.0 (has battery built in)
  or 1 standard PF battery box, 1 PF IR receiver and one PF IR remote control (2 models)

Mind that the PF IR receiver cannot handle 2 XL motors, but I wouldn't choose the IR option anyway...

If you choose the newer Powered Up (PU), you need the following:

• 2 L, 1 XL or 2 XL PU motors for drive
• 1 L PU motor or 1 PU small angular motor for steering
• 1 LEGO Contrul+ hub
  or 1 BuWizz 3.0

BuWizz will in most cases be the better choice, but mind that you need a different version for Power Functions and for Powered Up.

Thank you for telling me the difference. After watching the video, I prefer the PF more. They are more powerful and customizable, and the Servo is better quality compared to the PU motor. I am leaning towards the 2 L motors option. However, that Is my inexperienced opinion, so what do you think? Should I choose:

       1. 2 L PF motors, 1 PF Servo motor, BuWizz 2.0

              Pros: Better speed (relative to 2 XL PF motors)

              Cons: Less torque (relative to 2 XL PF motors) 

                                                   or

      2. 2 XL PF motors, 1 PF Servo motor, BuWizz 2.0

             Pros: More torque, better for off-roading (relative to 2 L PF motors)

             Cons: Painfully slow (relative to 2 L PF motors)

3 hours ago, syclone said:

The newer BuWizz 3.0 supports C+ motors as well, so you could use 2 PF L or XL motors for drive and a C+ L motor for steering, or only C+ motors. Also be aware of how problematic PF servos are, so you might want to look into much cheaper alternative brands available on Internet, albeit don't know how long shipping to USA takes. 

Can you please share a link that explains C+ motors? I do not know what they are, and googling it doesn't help. I will be sure to keep what you said about Servos in my mind as well. I found a cheap option on Amazon for only $15, which seems like a better investment compared to Lego's price.

[Gray Gear]

1 hour ago, noahtheb said:

*Snip*

I found a cheap option on Amazon for only $15, which seems like a better investment compared to Lego's price.

I am pretty sure the servo motor you are looking at on amazon isn't genuine LEGO. I just looked real quick myself, and most of them seem to be chinese copies, and the bad ones at that. The one offer I saw that was LEGO was like 90 EUR lol

These servo motors are starting at 50 EUR on Bricklink. 

I am not saying all china Motors are bad, but you should know what you are buying to avoid scams and compatibility problems. Some China motors are just crap LEGO copies, and some can actually be better than genuine LEGO motors. 

Edited May 16, 2021 by Gray Gear

[noahtheb]

11 minutes ago, Gray Gear said:

I am pretty sure the servo motor you are looking at on amazon isn't genuine LEGO. I just looked real quick myself, and most of them seem to be chinese copies, and the bad ones at that. The one offer I saw that was LEGO was like 90 EUR lol

These servo motors are starting at 50 EUR on Bricklink. 

I am not saying all china Motors are bad, but you should know what you are buying to avoid scams and compatibility problems. Some China motors are just crap LEGO copies, and some can actually be better than genuine LEGO motors. 

I understand. Do you have any recommendations?

 

By the way, I think the best choice for my Defender is 2 XL PF motors. I was experimenting with a M PF motor earlier, and it was way too fast and too little torque. It doesn't help that I am terrible at building gearboxes, so I think the XL is a good choice for a beginner like me. Plus, it may be slow, but it will be more capable.

[Gray Gear]

@noahtheb Well if you want to use real LEGO servos you'll have to cough up those 50 bucks I am afraid  

The china system I just bought will run you ~30 bucks for a 4 channel Rechargable battery box with bluetooth App & Remote controller, about 20 bucks for 2 motors and maybe 15 for a servo. This system of course is no match for BUWIZZ ludicrous mode power, but for the price I think it is a good deal.

 

For motorization I would recommend 1 L-Motor per axle, and to use the planetary gear wheel hubs to increase torque. The planetary wheel hubs will gear down the Motors 5:1, so I doubt any further gearing down will be needed. Using the new reinforced diffs might also be an idea, but idk if that is really needed.

[noahtheb]

1 hour ago, Gray Gear said:

@noahtheb Well if you want to use real LEGO servos you'll have to cough up those 50 bucks I am afraid  

The china system I just bought will run you ~30 bucks for a 4 channel Rechargable battery box with bluetooth App & Remote controller, about 20 bucks for 2 motors and maybe 15 for a servo. This system of course is no match for BUWIZZ ludicrous mode power, but for the price I think it is a good deal.

 

For motorization I would recommend 1 L-Motor per axle, and to use the planetary gear wheel hubs to increase torque. The planetary wheel hubs will gear down the Motors 5:1, so I doubt any further gearing down will be needed. Using the new reinforced diffs might also be an idea, but idk if that is really needed.

Good idea. I do not currently have any Planetary Wheel hubs in my parts collection now-I will have to buy 4.

[noahtheb]

I will post pictures of my defender in a few hours. I have made massive changes.

[syclone]

11 hours ago, noahtheb said:

Can you please share a link that explains C+ motors? I do not know what they are, and googling it doesn't help. I will be sure to keep what you said about Servos in my mind as well. I found a cheap option on Amazon for only $15, which seems like a better investment compared to Lego's price.

C+ = Control+ which is the same as Powered Up, except Lego marketed it differently for Technic sets. 

Be careful with servos from alternative brands as mentioned by GrayGear- most of them are "dumb" - they only go -90 , 0 , and + 90 degrees, whereas Lego servos and the ones from CaDa as well as some other brands have various positions in between those three, allowing for more precise control. This PDF from BrickElectronic explains it very well: https://brickelectronic.de/downloads/Brickelectronic_TechCheck3_en.pdf

[noahtheb]

5 hours ago, syclone said:

C+ = Control+ which is the same as Powered Up, except Lego marketed it differently for Technic sets. 

Be careful with servos from alternative brands as mentioned by GrayGear- most of them are "dumb" - they only go -90 , 0 , and + 90 degrees, whereas Lego servos and the ones from CaDa as well as some other brands have various positions in between those three, allowing for more precise control. This PDF from BrickElectronic explains it very well: https://brickelectronic.de/downloads/Brickelectronic_TechCheck3_en.pdf

I think should buy the CaDa Servo. Also, I went to my local Lego store recently, and they were still selling PF motors, even though the article said they would stop in 2020. I wonder if that excludes the US.

[Maaboo the Witch]

6 minutes ago, noahtheb said:

I went to my local Lego store recently, and they were still selling PF motors, even though the article said they would stop in 2020. I wonder if that excludes the US.

My nearest shop in Milton Keynes always had a ton of spare PF kit, so it's likely leftover stock.

[noahtheb]

1 minute ago, Maaboo35 said:

My nearest shop in Milton Keynes always had a ton of spare PF kit, so it's likely leftover stock.

Probably.

 

By the way, should I keep the central differential in my Defender? 

[noahtheb]

My Flickr page

You can find pictures of my Defender here, since I don’t know how to insert a Flickr hyperlink. 

The U joint above the Central Differential is a modification, I will attach that to a motor to power the rear axle of my Defender. 

[chlego]

18 hours ago, noahtheb said:

2. 2 XL PF motors, 1 PF Servo motor, BuWizz 2.0

             Pros: More torque, better for off-roading (relative to 2 L PF motors)

             Cons: Painfully slow (relative to 2 L PF motors)

I'd go with this one.

18 hours ago, noahtheb said:

I did some research on BuWizz, and I'm not quite sure I understand what you're saying. From my knowledge, the BuWizz is a Bluetooth-controlled battery box with no motors. Does the BuWizz block come with more motors?

No, I counted the fact that you already have 2 PF - L motors

Are you already finished?

[noahtheb]

13 minutes ago, chlego said:

*Snip*

No, I counted the fact that you already have 2 PF - L motors

Are you already finished?

No, I still have to buy the motors and the BuWizz, which I will have to pay for with the money I was saving for the new Speed Champions. This project takes quite a lot of commitment!

Edited May 17, 2021 by noahtheb
I wanted to add something.

[noahtheb]

Today, I was playing around with my Defender's chassis and gearing, and I realized I can spin the Center Differential to power all the wheels, and if I block any amount of wheels, the other ones still run. It requires quite a lot of torque, but there are no problems such as cracking. Is this a good idea? I was thinking about combining 2 L PF motors to power the Central Differential. If you need to visualize it, check my Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/193089619@N08/? 

[Some Belgian LEGO Fan]

On 5/16/2021 at 10:42 PM, noahtheb said:

I did some research on BuWizz, and I'm not quite sure I understand what you're saying. From my knowledge, the BuWizz is a Bluetooth-controlled battery box with no motors. Does the BuWizz block come with more motors?

Thank you for telling me the difference. After watching the video, I prefer the PF more. They are more powerful and customizable, and the Servo is better quality compared to the PU motor. I am leaning towards the 2 L motors option. However, that Is my inexperienced opinion, so what do you think? Should I choose:

       1. 2 L PF motors, 1 PF Servo motor, BuWizz 2.0

              Pros: Better speed (relative to 2 XL PF motors)

              Cons: Less torque (relative to 2 XL PF motors) 

                                                   or

      2. 2 XL PF motors, 1 PF Servo motor, BuWizz 2.0

             Pros: More torque, better for off-roading (relative to 2 L PF motors)

             Cons: Painfully slow (relative to 2 L PF motors)

Can you please share a link that explains C+ motors? I do not know what they are, and googling it doesn't help. I will be sure to keep what you said about Servos in my mind as well. I found a cheap option on Amazon for only $15, which seems like a better investment compared to Lego's price.

I have the Defender set up the second way, and it is not slow thanks to the BuWizz's ludicrous mode :)

After all, the XL motors are more powerful than the L motors, so if you would gear them in such a way that the speed at the wheel is the same, the XL motor setup would deliver more torque than the L motor setup. If you gear the motor so that the torque at the wheels is the same, the XL motor setup would be faster than the L motor setup.

[Gray Gear]

@Some Belgian LEGO Fan I thought the L motor and XL motor had the same electric motor inside, just with different gearing to the output? That should mean if you gear the motors to the same speed torque should be about the same as well, right?

[Some Belgian LEGO Fan]

6 minutes ago, Gray Gear said:

@Some Belgian LEGO Fan I thought the L motor and XL motor had the same electric motor inside, just with different gearing to the output? That should mean if you gear the motors to the same speed torque should be about the same as well, right?

According to these tests: https://www.philohome.com/motors/motorcomp.htm, the PU L and PU XL indeed share the same electric motor.

The PF L and PF XL are different, although the difference is smaller than I thought...

Still waiting for the BuWizz motors to arrive

Edited May 18, 2021 by Some Belgian LEGO Fan
Had to distinquish PU and PF

[noahtheb]

40 minutes ago, Some Belgian LEGO Fan said:

I have the Defender set up the second way, and it is not slow thanks to the BuWizz's ludicrous mode :)

After all, the XL motors are more powerful than the L motors, so if you would gear them in such a way that the speed at the wheel is the same, the XL motor setup would deliver more torque than the L motor setup. If you gear the motor so that the torque at the wheels is the same, the XL motor setup would be faster than the L motor setup.

Alright, I think I will combine 2 XL PF motors to power the Center Differential.

[Some Belgian LEGO Fan]

2 minutes ago, noahtheb said:

Alright, I think I will combine 2 XL PF motors to power the Center Differential.

You can try, but I don't thik it will work. As sead before, I connected one XL motor to the front differential and 1 XL motor to the rear differential.

Two XL motors on the centre differential might damage the gears because of the high torque going trough. You could try and accelerate carefully. If you hear gears cracking, you will need to simplify the drivetrain.

[Gray Gear]

@noahtheb I agree with @Some Belgian LEGO Fan. Connecting 2XL Motors to the center diff will break the bevel gears in the center diff for sure. 2L motors at highter revs to the center diff might be a bit softer on the gears in the center diff, but I still think it doesn't really sound like a good idea. I'd just keep it simple and reliable by using 1 motor per axle.

Edited May 18, 2021 by Gray Gear

[noahtheb]

3 hours ago, Some Belgian LEGO Fan said:

You can try, but I don't thik it will work. As sead before, I connected one XL motor to the front differential and 1 XL motor to the rear differential.

Two XL motors on the centre differential might damage the gears because of the high torque going trough. You could try and accelerate carefully. If you hear gears cracking, you will need to simplify the drivetrain.

 

2 hours ago, Gray Gear said:

@noahtheb I agree with @Some Belgian LEGO Fan. Connecting 2XL Motors to the center diff will break the bevel gears in the center diff for sure. 2L motors at highter revs to the center diff might be a bit softer on the gears in the center diff, but I still think it doesn't really sound like a good idea. I'd just keep it simple and reliable by using 1 motor per axle.

Thanks, I think I can understand why that would happen. That requires a lot more rebuilding, but I can make it happen.

[noahtheb]

I went to my local Lego store today to buy 2 XL PF motors, but they only had PU motors. The employee recommended getting them off Bricklink, which is what I plan to do soon...