42110 - Land Rover Defender - MODs and Improvements

[Master p1]

very cool foldable seats

hello i am a new user of eruobricks and a big and long running fan of the technic line.

i have done some mods to mine land rover including...

1. suspension fix i have posted this on rebricakable.

2. pickup bed. 

3. full gearbox removal of the rear tranny.

 

i may post pictures eventualy

 

[marqu3s]

Hi there!

I'm not new to LEGO, but I'm new to Technic sets. This was my first LEGO set back in the 80's:

Police Station

I've just finished building my Landy and faced the same difficulties already posted here regarding the gear box. I got a couple of L-motors, a servo-motor, lights (all power functions) and a Buwizz to go for an attempt to make it a RC model.

I really enjoyed a lot of modifications I've seen here and I would like to implement a lot of them. But here in Brazil there are almost no way to buy spare parts and the LEGO sets are expensive (a friend of mine came from USA and brought my Landy and motors).

For now my objective is to make it RC. For this, I would like to ask for help of the Technic experts here.

I want to build a simple drive train, with just HI (for a some speed gain), LO (for torque and power) and N positions (that would allow the wheels to rotate freely). Of course I want to couple the 2 L-motors to this drive train.

For the steering I'm planning to go with the Anckerman setup I've seen here in this post.

But there are some restrictions to the project:

- I want to keep the exterior and interior as much as possible.
- Remove all the gearboxes, engine, etc to have space for the drive train and motors.
- Make a symmetrical chassis.
- It can use only parts from the 42110 set.
- I also have set 42102 so I can use it's parts (if needed, prefer not).

My main difficult it to put together the drive train. Can some one help me, may be with a studio.io file?

The other things I believe I'm able to do.

I also have two quick questions (3 actually):

- Whats the purpose of the center differential? What problems can I have if I remove it?
- Is it possible to use M or L motors for steering?

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Edited February 28, 2021 by marqu3s
Make links clickable

[chlego]

2 hours ago, marqu3s said:

- Whats the purpose of the center differential? What problems can I have if I remove it?
- Is it possible to use M or L motors for steering?

First of all: Welcome!

1. When the rotation speeds coming from the front and the rear differentials are different, this center differential makes its output axle be a combination of each diff speed. If there was no center diff, the axle connecting both the rear and the front differential would bend when the car doesn't go in a straight line. Since this can seriously have an impact on the car, especially when you make it RC, I'd suggest you keep it (it doesn't take up too much space either).
2. Yes, but if you use PF (and not the newer PU/control+), there is no return-to-center mechanism. When turning, the wheels won't go back straight, and you'd have to faff around with the remote control to get them back straight. Also, some gears can skip when turning because the M/L/XL motors don't stop at a moment, they continue turning. I always use a servo motor for steering.

Hope this helps.

Edited February 28, 2021 by chlego

[marqu3s]

Hey! Thanks for the explanations!

Another one: I got the MPD file for the defender in this link: https://forums.ldraw.org/thread-23139-post-34344.html#pid34344

Imported it into Studio 2 but it looks like there are some missing parts. Any one know how to solve it? Or have another file to share?

Here is how I see it: https://imgur.com/0enL6tA

Edited February 28, 2021 by marqu3s
Make links clickable

[Master p1]

Marqu3s hello I live in Canada and I was just wound wrong how you managed to get the servo as forth I am doing a rc mod to my Landy and I don’t have a servo to use so I used a m motor with a thing on the front can’t remember what it is :(....... 

Edited March 3, 2021 by Master p1
Problem

[-_-Husky-_-]

A V8 version of the real car with 525 hp will be available in 2022. So the V8 mods in this thread do exist in the real world.

https://www.autoblog.com/2021/02/26/land-rover-defender-v8-2022-price/?guccounter=1

 

Edited March 3, 2021 by -_-Husky-_-

[marqu3s]

4 hours ago, Master p1 said:

Marqu3s hello I live in Canada and I was just wound wrong how you managed to get the servo as forth I am doing a rc mod to my Landy and I don’t have a servo to use so I used a m motor with a thing on the front can’t remember what it is :(....... 

Hi there!

I got mine from a store called element in brickowl.com. They are in Florida. Brickowl is like a market place with stores that sells Lego parts. Do a search at it and maybe you will find a better deal. I’ve just checked and element still have it available.

https://element.brickowl.com/store/lego-servo-motor-set-88004

[Some Belgian LEGO Fan]

I tried some different wheel and tire combinations on the Defender.

The standard LEGO truck wheels have the same dimensions as the Defender wheels, but they have a smaller ET-value (einpresstiefe) than the Defender wheels. As a result, they are positioned further outside.

You can combine the:

• Defender wheels with Defender tires (obviously)
• Defender wheels with truck tires - but the suspension needs to be lifted with half a stud
• Truck wheels with Defender tires - but the fenders needs to be widened by one stud
• Truck wheels with truck tires - but the suspension needs to be lifted with half a stud and the fenders need to be widened by one stud
• Truck wheels with tractor tires - but the suspension needs to be lifted with half a stud and the fenders removed

Cannot be combined:

• Defender wheels with tractor tires - they are wider and taller and will rub on all sides

Also, the tractor tires are so tall, that the play in the wheel hub and suspension cause too much variation in geometry. It doesn't drive that well. It is fast though (with an XL PF motor driving each axle). To my surprise, the gears and diff never skipped or cracked, not even with the BuWizz set on Ludicrous.

Some pictures:

With truck rims and tractor tires, suspesion on standard height:

With suspension raised half a stud:

With truck tires on Defender wheels, suspension raised half a stud:

I quite like this setup, it drives very well and makes it better RC car for outdoor use.

RC setup; PF XL motor on each axle, directly driving the diff, PF servo in place of the fake engine, BuWizz in the trunk, all controlled with an Xbox controller.

Edited March 15, 2021 by Some Belgian LEGO Fan

[Master p1]

Ok yeah I just checked the site and they do have them 3 in fact butttttttttttt there 88.57 compared to the LEGO sites 29.99 but hey if they have them and none else does I could say that that’s I pretty good deal heh.

[lsquared]

Integrated a center differential lock. Unsure if the geometry would actually work though, in stud.io the driving ring does not intersect with the 16 tooth gear that is 3 studs away - however they look very close together. (Intersection detection in Stud doesn't seem the best). Also 4 wheel drive

 

@Mike08 is it possible for you to share your stud file for the extended body? (would love to integrate more features - but I'm horrible with stud) 

https://ibb.co/MG9Kxr6

Edited March 7, 2021 by lsquared

[marqu3s]

Hi folks!

I'm adapting two L Motors in the defender. They are near the end of the chassis and are connected together by a gear between them. Here are some pics

Top view

 

Left view

 

Bottom views

This is the main axle. It is connected to the front and rear differentials. With this setup, the front and rear wheels rotate in different directions when the motors are turned on.

The rear and front differentials are on the same orientation as they are in the Lego build instructions.

I also tried to put a center differential in this position of the main axle, but only the front wheels rotate when the motors are turned on. The rear wheels did not rotate.

What am I doing wrong?

[MikeTwo9398]

It is possible you did nothing wrong. A differential will alway rotate the axle with the lowest friction.
Hold both front wheel still and see if the rear wheels start rotating.
 

In case the rear wheels rotate in the wrong direction remove the differential of the rear axle and mount it back 180 degrees rotate.

[marqu3s]

On 3/13/2021 at 4:33 PM, MikeTwo9398 said:

It is possible you did nothing wrong. A differential will alway rotate the axle with the lowest friction.
Hold both front wheel still and see if the rear wheels start rotating.
 

In case the rear wheels rotate in the wrong direction remove the differential of the rear axle and mount it back 180 degrees rotate.

Hi!

I ended up installing the center differential. As I said before, the front wheels rotate, the rear wheels are dead.

But if I "lock" (I mean, grab and hold with my hand) the center dif, then the rear wheels start to rotate and it becomes a real 4x4.

Is this the correct way to make it a 4x4? Locking the center dif, it's 4x4 and unlocking it it's a 4x2?

[i really dont know]

On 3/13/2021 at 9:54 AM, marqu3s said:

I also tried to put a center differential in this position of the main axle, but only the front wheels rotate when the motors are turned on. The rear wheels did not rotate.

What am I doing wrong? 

It appears that differential isn't being driven properly, general rule of thumb with differentials is that you have 1 input and two outputs or alternatively 2 inputs and one output. When it comes to driving vehicles generally the differential case is the input and the gear set inside of it is for the outputs.

[iShadowU]

I’ve seen some messages about it, but no real solution. So asking once more: did anyone try (and succeeded) in increasing the ground clearance of the Defender?

 

[Some Belgian LEGO Fan]

34 minutes ago, iShadowU said:

I’ve seen some messages about it, but no real solution. So asking once more: did anyone try (and succeeded) in increasing the ground clearance of the Defender?

 

Yes, I did so by lowering the damper's mounting point by half a stud.

Front:

Back:

Keep in mind that the universal joints on the half axles don't run smoothly at this angle, so the suspension has to be compressed a bit by the vehicle's weight (which it is always supposed to do, otherwise suspension doesn't make a lot of sense).

This combined with mounting the truck tires on the Defender rims (see my previous post) gives a ground clearance of 5.5 studs with uncompressed suspension, 4.5 studs with suspension partly compressed by the vehicle's weight and 2.5 studs with the suspension fully compressed.

[MikeTwo9398]

On 3/13/2021 at 8:33 PM, MikeTwo9398 said:

It is possible you did nothing wrong. A differential will alway rotate the axle with the lowest friction.
Hold both front wheel still and see if the rear wheels start rotating.
 

In case the rear wheels rotate in the wrong direction remove the differential of the rear axle and mount it back 180 degrees rotate.

 

16 hours ago, marqu3s said:

Hi!

I ended up installing the center differential. As I said before, the front wheels rotate, the rear wheels are dead.

But if I "lock" (I mean, grab and hold with my hand) the center dif, then the rear wheels start to rotate and it becomes a real 4x4.

Is this the correct way to make it a 4x4? Locking the center dif, it's 4x4 and unlocking it it's a 4x2?

 

Reading the story I made this drawing of what I think you did. If not please add a picture so we can see what you are doing.

At the bottom I draw the current situation. The motor drives the right part of the middle differential, the front axle wheels and the middle differential will rotate.
If you block the middle differential the small gears in the middle differential will make the back axle rotate (left side of the middle differential). The back axle will rotate in the correct direction!

To make it work correct the motor should drive the middle differential directly on the 24 gear side (or the other side). Both left and right of the middle differential will start rotating.
If you don't flip the back axle differential the front and back axle will not rotate in the same direction.

Good luck...

 

[marqu3s]

 

On 3/15/2021 at 12:37 AM, i really dont know said:

It appears that differential isn't being driven properly, general rule of thumb with differentials is that you have 1 input and two outputs or alternatively 2 inputs and one output. When it comes to driving vehicles generally the differential case is the input and the gear set inside of it is for the outputs.

 

On 3/15/2021 at 12:37 AM, i really dont know said:

It appears that differential isn't being driven properly, general rule of thumb with differentials is that you have 1 input and two outputs or alternatively 2 inputs and one output. When it comes to driving vehicles generally the differential case is the input and the gear set inside of it is for the outputs.

 

On 3/15/2021 at 3:27 PM, MikeTwo9398 said:

 

 

Reading the story I made this drawing of what I think you did. If not please add a picture so we can see what you are doing.

At the bottom I draw the current situation. The motor drives the right part of the middle differential, the front axle wheels and the middle differential will rotate.
If you block the middle differential the small gears in the middle differential will make the back axle rotate (left side of the middle differential). The back axle will rotate in the correct direction!

To make it work correct the motor should drive the middle differential directly on the 24 gear side (or the other side). Both left and right of the middle differential will start rotating.
If you don't flip the back axle differential the front and back axle will not rotate in the same direction.

Good luck...

 

I would like to thank you both for the clear explanations!

[_paulR]

Following my previous post re the white or LBG rims (cause I don't like the black rims) some modifications I made:

- MOC-31299: Pimp up my Land Rover by jb70
- MOC-37478: Door MOD by Gerhard
- MOC-40544: Hood bracket by IngoK
- MOC-31290: Big Boo-Bar with lights by JunkstyleGio
- Improved trunk hinge: 2 blue pins pointing outwards (recommended)
- Swapped gray shock absorbers for hard yellow ones in front
- Green side panel moved forward by 1 stud
- Adjusted roof rack with lights
- Swapped black rims for LBG rims 15038
- Door limiter by JunkstyleGio  (https://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?/forums/topic/173690-42110-land-rover-defender-mods-and-improvements/&do=findComment&comment=3156900)

Edited April 17, 2021 by _paulR

[noahtheb]

Hello all,

I am new to technic, with barely any knowledge of gearboxes. I want to make my Defender and RC, but to add the two L-motors, I have to remove the rear gearbox. How will this affect the car? Will I need to build a new gearbox?

[Some Belgian LEGO Fan]

1 hour ago, noahtheb said:

Hello all,

I am new to technic, with barely any knowledge of gearboxes. I want to make my Defender and RC, but to add the two L-motors, I have to remove the rear gearbox. How will this affect the car? Will I need to build a new gearbox?

Hi noahtheb

If you want to drive the Defender with two motors (L or XL), I would recommend to drive each axle with one motor. Therefore, you would need to remove the gearbox and the centre differential. This has a couple of advantages: less weight, less friction, less chance of cracking gears, less play on the drivetrain, traction will only be lost when two wheels lose grip instead of when one wheel loses grip and more interior space.

Try to make the connection between the motor and the axle differential as direct as possible. However, with the L-motor you might need to reduce gearing, for example with motor > 12t gear > 20t gear > axle differential.

Keeping the gearbox is possible, then you would need to combine the motors on the gearbox's input. I think it won't have many advantages and operating the gearbox remotely will add more weight and bulk.

[noahtheb]

2 hours ago, Some Belgian LEGO Fan said:

Hi noahtheb

If you want to drive the Defender with two motors (L or XL), I would recommend to drive each axle with one motor. Therefore, you would need to remove the gearbox and the centre differential. This has a couple of advantages: less weight, less friction, less chance of cracking gears, less play on the drivetrain, traction will only be lost when two wheels lose grip instead of when one wheel loses grip and more interior space.

Try to make the connection between the motor and the axle differential as direct as possible. However, with the L-motor you might need to reduce gearing, for example with motor > 12t gear > 20t gear > axle differential.

Keeping the gearbox is possible, then you would need to combine the motors on the gearbox's input. I think it won't have many advantages and operating the gearbox remotely will add more weight and bulk.

Thank you, I think I have a general idea of what I'm working with now. I don't think I'll include a gearbox.

One more question: Do you recommend buying a LEGO Control Hub, SBrick Control Hub, or BuWizz Control Hub?

[Some Belgian LEGO Fan]

1 hour ago, noahtheb said:

Thank you, I think I have a general idea of what I'm working with now. I don't think I'll include a gearbox.

One more question: Do you recommend buying a LEGO Control Hub, SBrick Control Hub, or BuWizz Control Hub?

The SBrick is good, but since I have the BuWizz as well, I didn't use it anymore. It feels like an interim solution. The BuWizz is a more compact and powerful solution. Either buy a BuWizz or the Lego Control Hub. Also, I wouldn't buy the control hub on itself but rather as part of a set. Here at least, the control hub costs €80 and a set including that, two L motors and a whole lot of parts (f.e. 42124) only around €90.

[noahtheb]

Thanks for the advice! According to what you have told me, here is what I need to buy to motorize my Defender:

1 x BuWizz   $149 / 122 Euro

1 x 42124    $129 / 106 Euro

1 x 88004 Servo Motor(for steering)   $15-90 / 12-74 Euro

(Price translation from Google, apologies if it is incorrect.) 

 

Edited May 16, 2021 by noahtheb
Forgot to include Servo

[syclone]

14 minutes ago, noahtheb said:

Thanks for the advice! According to what you have told me, here is what I need to buy to motorize my Defender:

1 x BuWizz   $149 / 122 Euro

1 x 42124    $129 / 106 Euro

1 x 88004 Servo Motor(for steering)   $15-90 / 12-74 Euro

The newer BuWizz 3.0 supports C+ motors as well, so you could use 2 PF L or XL motors for drive and a C+ L motor for steering, or only C+ motors. Also be aware of how problematic PF servos are, so you might want to look into much cheaper alternative brands available on Internet, albeit don't know how long shipping to USA takes.