New train wheels tested by LEGO

[Cwetqo]

LEGO Community team shared this video:

What do you think?

[monai]

In Italy we say:

"Don't ask the barman if the wine taste good"

there have already been published indipendent tests that say the contrary, but I agree with LEGO the new wheels are CHEAPER to produce and therefore more PROFITABLE.. anyway perhaps more children oriented and even more eco-friendly but sincerely I don't understand this propaganda. 

[Tcm0]

I wonder why no straight track was used in the test. And I think that battery powered engines don't have relieable results because each battery is slightly different (thus one train might have an advantage over the other).

Also, nice category: "comedy"

[zephyr1934]

Thanks @Cwetqo for sharing. If the video is the complete testing setup there is a fundamental control problem the experiment.

1) they should have swapped the motors, battery boxes, and batteries between the two trains several times, e.g., at each battery change, to ensure that there are no effects from the particular motor, controller or battery. And to do so several times in case one set degrades faster than the other. Even better, do it with multiple units (but still keep sharing them)

2) at least in the video the new wheels went clockwise around the loop while the old wheels went counterclockwise. Going counterclockwise around the curve you will encounter more friction due to the connections between the track segments slight jog inward on the outer rail. Whereas going clockwise the slight jog is outward on the outer rail.

The design setup also favors the new wheels, there is almost no straight track traversed. So the fact that the new wheels turn independently they should perform better on mostly curves, especially with three weight bricks on each car. For their objective of testing what a child might encounter this seems like a very reasonable setup. But it is not representative of what an AFOL might encounter... at least not the type of AFOL reading this forum. As pointed out in an earlier comment, if there was a lot of straight track in the test setup I bet the old wheels would have come out ahead, but if you just buy an off the shelf train set, you will have mostly curves. So the test seems fair from the prospective of selling train sets for children and I like the prospect that it will mean more trains in the future. Fortunately we have the roller bearing wheels to fill the niche for AFOLs.

 

[bricks n bolts]

Frustrating, I bet also the flex tracks don't help the case for the old wheels.

Also annoying that they only thought of bringing out red versions for the new design.

 

[Tcm0]

2 hours ago, zephyr1934 said:

The design setup also favors the new wheels, there is almost no straight track traversed. So the fact that the new wheels turn independently they should perform better on mostly curves, especially with three weight bricks on each car. For their objective of testing what a child might encounter this seems like a very reasonable setup. But it is not representative of what an AFOL might encounter... at least not the type of AFOL reading this forum. As pointed out in an earlier comment, if there was a lot of straight track in the test setup I bet the old wheels would have come out ahead, but if you just buy an off the shelf train set, you will have mostly curves. So the test seems fair from the prospective of selling train sets for children and I like the prospect that it will mean more trains in the future. Fortunately we have the roller bearing wheels to fill the niche for AFOLs.

They traversed no straight track during the test. The switch is set to the curved track as well. That is not fair - almost all train sets contain straight track, too (but yeah, they contain more curves).

[Toastie]

4 hours ago, zephyr1934 said:

Going counterclockwise around the curve you will encounter more friction due to the connections between the track segments slight jog inward on the outer rail.

 

4 hours ago, zephyr1934 said:

So the test seems fair from the prospective of selling train sets for children and I like the prospect that it will mean more trains in the future.

Hmmmm ... they used all the EV3 high-tec to do the test. Which gives a taste of scientific sound and fair approach.

You know, VW dynamometer chassis tests with their smart diesels recognizing to be on the roll and then turning on all exhaust cleaning equipment into full gear (with the mpg going through the roof) were also sort of fair - from the prospective of selling more diesels and more models in the future.

Honestly: They should not present it that way. Either they did not know about this issue - which makes them look stupid... not well informed - or they did this on purpose, which means they can't envision that there are people out there knowing about this issue, which makes them look stupid. It's a lose lose situation.

Best
Thorsten

 

 

[Mestari]

6 hours ago, zephyr1934 said:

Fortunately we have the roller bearing wheels to fill the niche for AFOLs.

Can you elaborate in that? Some independent wheels are available?

Btw this video makes me go back in time to that communication they gave us about technic Porsche and the gear sequence. They made it wrong on purpose to enhance our experience... Now I wonder what's next thing LEGO wants to blow to pieces?

Edited December 13, 2019 by Mestari

[LEGO Train 12 Volts]

16 hours ago, monai said:

In Italy we say:

"Don't ask the barman if the wine taste good"

there have already been published indipendent tests that say the contrary, but I agree with LEGO the new wheels are CHEAPER to produce and therefore more PROFITABLE.. anyway perhaps more children oriented and even more eco-friendly but sincerely I don't understand this propaganda. 

I agree 1000% ...nothing more to say!

I challenge every AFOL to change old wheels with the new ones: the steel doesn't undergo alterations while the friction between two plastic parts (weighed down by a weight) can cause deterioration

[dr_spock]

18 minutes ago, LEGO Train 12 Volts said:

I agree 1000% ...nothing more to say!

I challenge every AFOL to change old wheels with the new ones: the steel doesn't undergo alterations while the friction between two plastic parts (weighed down by a weight) can cause deterioration

It could be done at trains show.  Take two identical cars and have one with old wheels and one with new wheels.  Take some before pictures and caliper measurements.  Run the train all day.   At the end of the day. take after pics and measurements.  Do the same for every show and then report results at the end of the show season.

 

[JopieK]

They promise more train at least so that is good isn't it?! We will need to see how it functions in practice.

[LEGO Train 12 Volts]

11 minutes ago, JopieK said:

They promise more train at least so that is good isn't it?! We will need to see how it functions in practice.

Correct, not all evil comes to harm ...and in any case wheels with ball bearings are already available

[coinoperator]

"we have imporved the battery consumption"
yeah.. environment sais nothing to them

Why don't I hear them say we will introduce a lithium polymere rechargable battery.

200 hours testing.
Didn't they see how many batteries that took?

On 12/13/2019 at 10:38 AM, monai said:

Don't ask the barman if the wine taste good

Like in The Netherlands we say:
"Wij van WC eend adviseren WC eend"

[Cwetqo]

They probably used new rechargeable insert, which is in development.

Unfortunately, its not very likely that we will see it in any of retail train sets, since it would significantly limit how and where such set could be sent and also put a lot of restraint on how such sets would be used.

[coinoperator]

1 hour ago, Cwetqo said:

a lot of restraint on how such sets would be used.

Please explain this.

[Tcm0]

1 hour ago, Cwetqo said:

They probably used new rechargeable insert, which is in development.

Unfortunately, its not very likely that we will see it in any of retail train sets, since it would significantly limit how and where such set could be sent and also put a lot of restraint on how such sets would be used.

I think that they'll release it as an add-on to the current hubs anyways (as replacement for the battery holder). That way the battery doesn't have to contain the bluetooth hardware and can be cheaper (relatively speaking).

[Lyichir]

19 hours ago, bricks n bolts said:

Frustrating, I bet also the flex tracks don't help the case for the old wheels.

Also annoying that they only thought of bringing out red versions for the new design.

 

The new design comes in black in the Hidden Side train set, actually.

[Cwetqo]

1 hour ago, coinoperator said:

Please explain this.

Sorry, what I wanted to say is "how sets can be stored".

1 hour ago, Tcm0 said:

I think that they'll release it as an add-on to the current hubs anyways (as replacement for the battery holder). That way the battery doesn't have to contain the bluetooth hardware and can be cheaper (relatively speaking).

True. About half year ago I was part of Workgroup on the future of Powered Up and guys, wich are in charge of it at LEGO confirmed that hub was designed so that battery holder could be replaced with rechargeable battery pack which is in develpment. Unfortunately, LEGO still needs to decide if they start selling it all, since numbers for PF variant were not that good (probably because price was insane).

 

[bricks n bolts]

1 hour ago, Lyichir said:

The new design comes in black in the Hidden Side train set, actually.

Not what I mean. For the old design..., we never had standard size red wheels.

[bricks n bolts]

39 minutes ago, bricks n bolts said:

Not what I mean. For the old design..., we never had standard size red wheels.

Tip, if you want some you can go clone brand, can get 4 pairs / 8 wheels for around £20 is you get one of the suspect ausini fashion (aka friends) trains, for that price can harvest and bin the rest.. (but maybe keep the brown magnet holders)

Before I get shot down by mods, I only do this for colours/parts missing from standard offerings, aka custom items as they used to be called on Bricklink

[Toastie]

2 hours ago, bricks n bolts said:

Before I get shot down by mods

Hee hee ... two hours and counting ...

Best
Thorsten

[LegoDW]

Well that concerns me most about this video was moving forward all train wheels would be made from the new plastic, the stuff from plants.  While I am all for the environment, on a train set the wheels are what take the most abuse.  Really want a material that will hold up!  Would be more excited if the train body what plant plastic and the wheels the older proven stuff.

[Toastie]

3 hours ago, LegoDW said:

all train wheels would be made from the new plastic, the stuff from plants

WHAT?

I did not watch that video as others did and pointed out the ... way they researched.

So they are pulling the environmental card? For train wheels??? Man. They should just reduce their cardboard box sizes to what is environmentally friendly and will make an orders of magnitude higher impact on the environment. I really don't like it, when someone tries to ride this wave - with zero impact: Trains - as they repeatedly said - are a niche (in a niche). What about life-time? These new material wheels do live how long? And then they are replaced? Phew. They should be careful pulling that card. In a niche.

Best
Thorsten

[SteamSewnEmpire]

27 minutes ago, Toastie said:

WHAT?

I did not watch that video as others did and pointed out the ... way they researched.

So they are pulling the environmental card? For train wheels??? Man. They should just reduce their cardboard box sizes to what is environmentally friendly and will make an orders of magnitude higher impact on the environment. I really don't like it, when someone tries to ride this wave - with zero impact: Trains - as they repeatedly said - are a niche (in a niche). What about life-time? These new material wheels do live how long? And then they are replaced? Phew. They should be careful pulling that card. In a niche.

Best
Thorsten

I'm almost starting to regret Lego putting Lepin out of business. When Lego changes the plastic formula in a major way, and all my old bricks suddenly become obsolete, I'm out.

[Phil B]

Don’t get all worked up about this. If I understood it correctly, the actual plastic is the same, it is just made from plant-sourced ingredients vs. oil-based ingredients.