42113 Bell Boeing V-22 Osprey

[Polarlicht]

7 minutes ago, XenoRad said:

 one of the companies-which-shall-not-be-named-here

Where is it still on sale?

[Jockos]

Just now, Coolusername said:

Where is it still on sale?

I think he referred to nipel (backward) ;)

[Polarlicht]

Oh

[nhk]

The more I think about it, the more the whole thing seems like some kind of stunt by Lego. Since they didn't send out review copies, it's obvious that they were about to cancel the set anyway.
It seems like too much of a coincidence that an anti-war group suddenly decides to protest, just around the time review embargoes are lifted.
Unless that group had actually contacted them weeks in advance, but for an incomprehensible reason made it public only a few days ago.

[Ngoc Nguyen]

Just now, nhk said:

The more I think about it, the more the whole thing seems like some kind of stunt by Lego. Since they didn't send out review copies, it's obvious that they were about to cancel the set anyway.
It seems like too much of a coincidence that an anti-war group suddenly decides to protest, just around the time review embargoes are lifted.
Unless that group had actually contacted them weeks in advance, but for an incomprehensible reason made it public only a few days ago.

So you're saying, in order to not get criticized for the production of a military aircraft, they intentionally got themselves criticized first?

[nhk]

8 minutes ago, Ngoc Nguyen said:

So you're saying, in order to not get criticized for the production of a military aircraft, they intentionally got themselves criticized first?

Sounds like a conspiracy theory when you put it like that, but if you consider that if it were fully released, any statement they made would sound even more hypocritical.
Currently the majority are actually giving Lego credit, instead of pointing out how self-serving their policy is in general.

[rener]

37 minutes ago, nhk said:

The more I think about it, the more the whole thing seems like some kind of stunt by Lego. Since they didn't send out review copies, it's obvious that they were about to cancel the set anyway.
It seems like too much of a coincidence that an anti-war group suddenly decides to protest, just around the time review embargoes are lifted.
Unless that group had actually contacted them weeks in advance, but for an incomprehensible reason made it public only a few days ago.

That sounds almost too intelligent to be true. I bet Hanlon’s Razor offers a better explanation, as usual: "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity"

[nhk]

26 minutes ago, rener said:

That sounds almost too intelligent to be true. I bet Hanlon’s Razor offers a better explanation, as usual: "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity"

There's enough indication that this isn't the case - you don't spend over a year in licensing, development and production because of stupidity.
Simply put - TLG doesn't really care whether they put out military sets or not. They only care whether they can be called out on it, which is why their policy, created in the post-Star Wars license days, is specifically written to allow them the greatest flexibility possible in creating military sets, including real-world ones, with the narrow exception of modern times.
The confidence they built up by producing thinly veiled or 'fictionalized' military models tripped them up here, as it led them to believe that re-badging the plane as rescue would be enough.
They didn't realize until too late that the licensing would put them into the narrow exclusion created to appear as though they have an anti-military policy.

The question is  - where were those same anti-war groups were when Lego was releasing Blue Power Jet and Sonic Boom, which are painfully obvious military craft ?
And why should an interesting and quality set be recalled to support the appearance of some superficial standards that Lego obviously doesn't even follow anyway ?

Edited July 23, 2020 by nhk

[Toastie]

1 hour ago, nhk said:

The more I think about it, the more the whole thing seems like some kind of stunt by Lego. Since they didn't send out review copies, it's obvious that they were about to cancel the set anyway.

Well, a few pages back, I was entertaining sort of the same idea ... and was asking folks, whether they really believe in that wild and funny "in reply to protesters" story. DFG-VK has put online a couple of pages and video clips. To me, they sound very friendly and cooperative. The best part is this (from their press release):

"‘LEGO has exceeded our expectations,’ Michael Schulze von Glaßer, Executive Director of the DFG-VK, states. The organization assumed that the release of the ‘42113 Bell-Boeing V-22 Osprey’ was inevitable since sets were already delivered to LEGO retailers."

And the best part is:

"The German Peace Society is surprised by the prompt reaction of the company: ‘We tried to contact LEGO several times since February and asked for a statement in regard to the newly planned military set. We also offered talks but never received an answer,’ Schulze von Glaßer states. According to the organization, this situation could have been prevented."

(Italics by me)

Since February ... that was when Covid-19 was felt to be far far away - at least here in Germany.

Full press release here, in case you haven't read it: https://lovebricks-hatewar.dfg-vk.de/files/lego/2020-07-22_PressRelease_LEGO-refrains-from-military-set.pdf 

Actually to me they sound a little scared by their "success" - and wanted to take another route.

Whatever.

1 hour ago, Jockos said:

I think he referred to nipel (backward) ;)

nipeL - this is sooo cool - never heard it ... question is though: Will DFG-VK go after nipeL? They should.

But I a) bet they don't know about nipeL and b) nipel has no ethic or optic protocol regarding selling military related toys. PLUS: They would not only not answer but simply make it. Well the will do so, I guess.

What a wonderful world ...

Best
Thorsten

Edited July 23, 2020 by Toastie

[nhk]

14 minutes ago, Toastie said:

Full press release here, in case you haven't read it: https://lovebricks-hatewar.dfg-vk.de/files/lego/2020-07-22_PressRelease_LEGO-refrains-from-military-set.pdf

That's funny, they practically state they're anti-licensing in this case, not anti-military, probably taking advantage of specific language in Lego's policy.
If this was a Boeing model in civilian use they would have nothing to stand on. So their anti-Boeing argument is utterly flat.

Also it sheds light on the fact that they contacted Lego months ago, but TLG did nothing up until the last moment possible and then some.
This definitely appears to be some kind of stunt designed to get away with releasing a set they knew violated their fake policy from the start, or gain some goodwill by pretending to concede to the protest.
Either way TLG wins. Emperor Palpatine would be proud.

Edited July 23, 2020 by nhk

[rener]

8 minutes ago, nhk said:

There's enough indication that this isn't the case - you don't spend over a year in licensing, development and production because of stupidity.
 

I think we can agree that licensing, developing, producing and ALMOST completely distributing a set, and then pull it back, is pretty stupid. At least business-wise. 

[Toastie]

5 minutes ago, nhk said:

anti-licensing in this case

toward a company making predominantly military stuff - they have an account of the numbers for that also somewhere - so that makes then anti-military I guess.

[Polarlicht]

3 minutes ago, rener said:

I think we can agree that licensing, developing, producing and ALMOST completely distributing a set, and then pull it back, is pretty stupid. At least business-wise. 

I agree. It's TLGs fault! The activists outside the store just woke them up again.

[icm]

From the linked document:

According to the organization, this situation could have been prevented. ‘If LEGO had released a fictive, civil tiltrotor aircraft without licenses of defense contractors, we would not have intervened,’ Schulze von Glaßer explains. He adds, ‘Despite the previous bad communication on the part of LEGO, we are all the happier about the company’s admission and the consequence it has drawn from it – we understand that the decision was not easy. We hope that LEGO will hold on to its own good values in the future.’ With respect to the environment, the German Peace Society hopes that sets, which already have been produced, will not be destroyed so that the bricks can be used for future sets. ‘That is the good thing about Legos, you can always create something new with them,’ Schulze von Glaßer concludes.

 

Yup, it's just because of the license.  The representative of the NGO seems gracious about the whole thing, so no hard feelings.

[nhk]

7 minutes ago, Toastie said:

toward a company making predominantly military stuff - they have an account of the numbers for that also somewhere - so that makes then anti-military I guess.

Maybe, but Boeing isn't the reason TLG cancelled the set, it's because of the Osprey's exclusive military use. If it had a civilian version, or if it was a different civilian craft from Boeing, it wouldn't have been cancelled, regardless of the amount of defense contracts the company holds.

Edited July 23, 2020 by nhk

[Polarlicht]

5 minutes ago, nhk said:

Maybe, but Boeing isn't the reason TLG cancelled the set, it's because of the Osprey's exclusive military use. If it had a civilian version, or if it was a different civilian craft from Boeing, it wouldn't have been cancelled, regardless of the amount of defense contracts the company holds.

But this situation is not Bell Boeings fault (i know you have not said that it is).

 

7 minutes ago, icm said:

From the linked document:

According to the organization, this situation could have been prevented. ‘If LEGO had released a fictive, civil tiltrotor aircraft without licenses of defense contractors, we would not have intervened,’ Schulze von Glaßer explains. He adds, ‘Despite the previous bad communication on the part of LEGO, we are all the happier about the company’s admission and the consequence it has drawn from it – we understand that the decision was not easy. We hope that LEGO will hold on to its own good values in the future.’ With respect to the environment, the German Peace Society hopes that sets, which already have been produced, will not be destroyed so that the bricks can be used for future sets. ‘That is the good thing about Legos, you can always create something new with them,’ Schulze von Glaßer concludes.

 

Yup, it's just because of the license.  The representative of the NGO seems gracious about the whole thing, so no hard feelings.

These couple of people get lots of hate now, which is not right!

I am not mad at them really..

 

The set is also in the 2HY 2020 Catalogue... what will happen to those?

Edited July 23, 2020 by Coolusername

[Toastie]

Just now, Coolusername said:

The set is also in the 2HY 2020 Catalogue... what will happen to those? 

Get as many copies as you can and sell them on ebay for 500 bucks each.

 

[Polarlicht]

Be right back

[Cumulonimbus]

I wonder if there will be legal ramifications for TLG by the late cancellation of the set. For starters, I can imagine that many retailers are not too happy about the potential loss of revenue and the extra time and effort needed to resend the already received sets. Secondly, will Bell/Boeing see this as a breach of contract? I guess they're not too pleased with the bad press of "the weapon manufacturer that TLG refuses to business with". They may also have allocated marketing budget for this cooperation which falls flat now. We may never know.

[nhk]

9 minutes ago, Cumulonimbus said:

I wonder if there will be legal ramifications for TLG by the late cancellation of the set. For starters, I can imagine that many retailers are not too happy about the potential loss of revenue and the extra time and effort needed to resend the already received sets. Secondly, will Bell/Boeing see this as a breach of contract? I guess they're not too pleased with the bad press of "the weapon manufacturer that TLG refuses to business with". They may also have allocated marketing budget for this cooperation which falls flat now. We may never know.

TLG has never put out such a statement, but amid the smokescreen nobody realizes the primary purpose of this 'protest' isn't accomplished. They'll just do pure civilian sets and Boeing will still get their cut, to the chagrin of the German Peace Society, who will have no backing in that case.

[Erik Leppen]

2 hours ago, nhk said:

The more I think about it, the more the whole thing seems like some kind of stunt by Lego. Since they didn't send out review copies, it's obvious that they were about to cancel the set anyway.
It seems like too much of a coincidence that an anti-war group suddenly decides to protest, just around the time review embargoes are lifted.
Unless that group had actually contacted them weeks in advance, but for an incomprehensible reason made it public only a few days ago.

Never attribute to malice what can be sufficiently explained by stupidity... :)

[icm]

Some thoughts - 

1.  If TLG and the German Peace Society have been in touch since February, clearly there have been a lot of questions about the set for months.  Perhaps they hoped it would all blow over.  Maybe the NGO had threatened to put out a press release opposing it if it wasn't canceled, and the executives at TLG thought they'd call the bluff.  When it wasn't a bluff, they decided to pull the set - - - but it certainly wasn't an overnight decision, rather the prompt to back out of a deal they weren't entirely comfortable with anyway.  With that in mind, I commend Lego for their integrity in making the last-minute call to cancel the set despite already incurring the losses of production and distribution.  However, it's a commendation for integrity that, were the standards of integrity at the company higher in the first place, would not have to happen (i.e., not pursuing the license in the first place, and going with a fictionalized Coast Guard tiltrotor from the beginning).

2.  Last year there were wild rumors that because of a breach of confidentiality, the Stranger Things set would be canceled at the last minute.  Those were dismissed by those in the know as not only false, but ridiculous.  Why would Lego cancel a big licensed set just days before its release, when they'd lose so much money from the already-completed production and distribution?  Now that we know it's possible for a large, complex, widely-anticipated set to be canceled after it's already been sent to stores and all the promotional material has been distributed, I wonder how license negotiations will change in the future.  Will potential license partners drive a harder bargain now that TLG has shown itself to be willing to not only cancel their sets at the last minute, but renounce them?

 

[Toastie]

 

4 minutes ago, icm said:

If TLG and the German Peace Society have been in touch since February, clearly there have been a lot of questions about the set for months.

3 hours ago, Toastie said:

‘We tried to contact LEGO several times since February and asked for a statement in regard to the newly planned military set. We also offered talks but never received an answer,’

It depends on what is regarded as being "in touch". No reply at all is the most ineffective reaction I can think of.

[icm]

Maybe not "in touch", but "aware of" - i.e., it's not like TLG first heard from the Society in mid-July and then two days later canceled the set.  They were aware of the Society's objections months ago.

[nhk]

28 minutes ago, icm said:

 With that in mind, I commend Lego for their integrity in making the last-minute call to cancel the set despite already incurring the losses of production and distribution.

You had me rolling on the floor here.
Lego has no integrity, they were just called out on what they've been doing for years, but this time their pretense values in written form didn't protect them.
Of course they wouldn't outright admit that, so they put the necessary spin to come out clean of this situation and you, among others, bought it hook line and sinker.