42113 Bell Boeing V-22 Osprey

[JaBaCaDaBra]

E-mail sent.

[XenoRad]

Yes, we should voice support for this set. I was looking forward to it since it was something different and with pretty cool functions too.

 

Regarding the licensing deal - that's probably done. I doubt TLG is going to pay Bell Boeing for every set they sell so those companies already got the money when the deal to develop this set was made. At this point cancelling this set is likely only going to financially impact TLG.

[AirDolphin]

This what a rough draft of my petition, I was fairly angry and might have ranted. would appreciate if you guys can help edit it, so that its not just my anger lol.

"LEGO fans calling on LEGO Group to releasee the LEGO Technic set 42113 Boeing Bell Osprey as planned. Unfortunately one group "DFG-VK", has associated that technical military equipment such as a transport version of a military vehicle as something bad, should not be explored by children and should not be built in collaboration with Arms manufacturers, however Arms Manufacturing companies such as Boeing are not causing war and destruction. we start wars, through our tax dollars and our elected or non elected governments. This particular version of the Boeing Bell Osprey that Lego Group has created is a civilian version which does not include weapons or promote violence. It is simply a transport vehicle with complex engineering. LEGO Technic 42113 will not be promoting violence, the same way LEGO technic Air Race Jet 42066 did not promote violence. This will be a great opportunity for LEGO fans to build a complex airplane which is true to life. As for Lego licensing a product with Boeing, Licensing fees will not be going to war efforts. Boeing is not responsible for war, its our governments, through our votes and tax dollars. So to those groups that are concerned with LEGO licensing with Boeing and in turn Lego Fans indirectly giving money to Boing. Licensing Fees to Boeing will be non existent next to Government spending on military equipment through our tax dollars which is in the billions of dollars. Tax dollars are used for war not LEGO Licensing Fee. For groups concerned with demilitarization, we urge them to voice their concerns with elected government officials regarding military conflicts.  LEGO Group is not responsible for militarization, we are, with our votes and tax dollars. We urge LEGO Group to release the 42113 Bell Osprey as planned. LEGO technic Set 42113 Bell Osprey is simply a transport vehicle. LEGO Group in the past has avoided licensing with companies that manufacture arms equipment due to violent characteristics of their products and their use in conflict, however in this particular instance for LEGO Group to build a non-violent, transport version of Bell Osprey true to technical design, LEGO group has to get a license due to its unique design and engineering. We want this LEGO Technic 42113 Bell Osprey (non violent transport vehicle) set released."

 

 

[Rudivdk]

Just sent my support-email to TLG

[XenoRad]

I think we would need something simpler and not going into the whole who/which entity government or otherwise supports the war effort with funds.

Something like "Lego Technic fans urge TLG to release set 42113 as the aircraft depicted has Search and Rescue designation and can be valuable in teaching children and adults alike the inner working of such complex machines. Neither the product as is nor its box and instructions indicate to any military application so TLG can both brink it to market and adhere to its internal guidelines on the type of products they make."

This can of course be expanded upon but again I'd rather not open the can of worms about who funds military operations and the companies making equipment for this purpose.

[pleegwat]

Given how far this set is in production, and the economic impacts of cancelling already discussed, I expect it'll silently show up again in a month or two when everyone's forgot about it. Probably unmodified.

[Rudivdk]

Just now, XenoRad said:

I think we would need something simpler and not going into the whole who/which entity government or otherwise supports the war effort with funds.

Something like.....

+1

[allanp]

This is just sad and typical of today's cancel/sensor/ban culture, always doing more harm than good, always creating more division between us than it removes, and I really wish TLG would stop going along with/supporting such socially harmful non-sense, stay out of politics all together and just stick to making the toys we love. I know they have to be responsible, but feeding this current cancel/sensor/ban culture that is stifling conversation is NOT responsible just because that's what many other big companies are doing. That's the opposite of responsible.

[Timorzelorzworz]

Remember 42100 it is not the first time to delay a set, maybe we will see in october.

Just imagine you're a designer at TLG and spent a lot of time and passion into this model 'cause you love your job. Then this useless shit, how painfull must that be

[grum64]

Just now, allanp said:

This is just sad and typical of today's cancel/sensor/ban culture, always doing more harm than good, always creating more division between us than it removes, and I really wish TLG would stop going along with/supporting such socially harmful non-sense, stay out of politics all together and just stick to making the toys we love. I know they have to be responsible, but feeding this current cancel/sensor/ban culture that is stifling conversation is NOT responsible just because that's what many other big companies are doing. That's the opposite of responsible.

Sir, you are wise indeed 

[AirDolphin]

The reason I mention governments and war is because that's what DFG-VK is arguing, they are saying 

"Due to the deployment of this military aircraft all around the world, innumerable civilians were killed. That is why parents, LEGO® customers and brick fans disapprove of the vehicle’s replication. Companies that produce weapons, which in many countries of the world cause human suffering and death, should not be cooperating with LEGO®" 

The whole argument is based on LEGO licensing with a company that makes military equipment and then implying those companies are responsible for death and destruction. As if grovenrments aren't the ones actually using the equipment. Its so much easier to take your outrage on a company making a toy product then the actual reason why this eqiupment exists and how its used. take your outrage out on the entities that are actually responsible, Not the LEGO group for making a set based on a transport version of a military vehicle. Licensing fees are not used for war. tax dollars are. 

[J_C]

9 minutes ago, XenoRad said:

I think we would need something simpler and not going into the whole who/which entity government or otherwise supports the war effort with funds.

Something like "Lego Technic fans urge TLG to release set 42113 as the aircraft depicted has Search and Rescue designation and can be valuable in teaching children and adults alike the inner working of such complex machines. Neither the product as is nor its box and instructions indicate to any military application so TLG can both brink it to market and adhere to its internal guidelines on the type of products they make."

This can of course be expanded upon but again I'd rather not open the can of worms about who funds military operations and the companies making equipment for this purpose.

+1

[Rudivdk]

Just now, AirDolphin said:

'That is why parents, LEGO® customers and brick fans disapprove of the vehicle’s replication.'

This we can easily and directly prove to be incorrect: we are fans, customers and often parents as well here on EB, and WE WANT THAT SET! But discussing who is responsible for war and war-related casualties is far beyond the topic of a LEGO set being possibly cancelled... imho it is even deflecting from the actual reason to start that petition in the first place.

[Maaboo the Witch]

8 minutes ago, Timorzelorzworz said:

Remember 42100 it is not the first time to delay a set, maybe we will see in october.

Just imagine you're a designer at TLG and spent a lot of time and passion into this model 'cause you love your job. Then this useless shit, how painfull must that be

42100 was delayed because of hitches related to CONTROL+. This is political. Waaaaay more serious.

I do feel for Markus, though. 

[suffocation]

13 minutes ago, AirDolphin said:

That is why parents, LEGO® customers and brick fans disapprove of the vehicle’s replication

I'd love to see DFG-VK's extensive polling on the subject. Oh right, there isn't any.

[AirDolphin]

8 minutes ago, Rudivdk said:

This we can easily and directly prove to be incorrect: we are fans, customers and often parents as well here on EB, and WE WANT THAT SET! But discussing who is responsible for war and war-related casualties is far beyond the topic of a LEGO set being possibly cancelled... imho it is even deflecting from the actual reason to start that petition in the first place.

Im not discussing who is responsible for war as in which country or company but that a manufactures of equipment is not responsible, its entities that use the equipment that should face this outrage not LEGO group, i'm simply saying LEGO group and its licensing with Boeing does not cause war and destruction and therefore should be okay to license. The DFG-VK is saying that somehow Boeing is responsible for war and destruction and that by LEGO associating with them makes them responsible. We need to publicly show support in the petition. We want this set, this set has nothing to do with war and destruction. 

Edited July 20, 2020 by AirDolphin

[Jockos]

The 2 (?) people, who started this thing should be forced to stick every non-sold sets' pieces up in their lower end if this ends up cancelling...

[TeriXeri]

There is a big difference between a single aircraft, or labeling the entire Boeing (which has like only 34% of defense revenue according to their 2019 Financial report).

I don't agree with DFG-K painting the entirety of Boeing as off-limits, but I can see criticism of a particular military vehicle when it has a label on it, because that ties LEGO together with real-world users/companies of said aircraft.

And it has been made before under City in 2013, (60021) and even reviews say it's a V-22 but I haven't seen backlash on that set, or even the more recent Creator 3-in-1 "F-35" lookalike.

Now, I am myself fine with the set, there's no Boeing/Bell/V-22 Osprey text anywhere on the model anyway, but I can still understand the slippery slope of linking it to a real world model like that on the box.

Edited July 20, 2020 by TeriXeri

[Rudivdk]

Just now, AirDolphin said:

We want this set, this set has nothing to do with war and destruction. 

No need to say more than this I think, it says all

[J_C]

24 minutes ago, AirDolphin said:

The reason I mention governments and war is because that's what DFG-VK is arguing, they are saying 

"Due to the deployment of this military aircraft all around the world, innumerable civilians were killed. That is why parents, LEGO® customers and brick fans disapprove of the vehicle’s replication. Companies that produce weapons, which in many countries of the world cause human suffering and death, should not be cooperating with LEGO®" 

The whole argument is based on LEGO licensing with a company that makes military equipment and then implying those companies are responsible for death and destruction. As if grovenrments aren't the ones actually using the equipment. Its so much easier to take your outrage on a company making a toy product then the actual reason why this eqiupment exists and how its used. take your outrage out on the entities that are actually responsible, Not the LEGO group for making a set based on a transport version of a military vehicle. Licensing fees are not used for war. tax dollars are. 

these are cheap argument fauls sentence 1 - that is not due to deployment (false claim), setence 2 - there is no proof, sentence 3 - it is not the companies who causes... (false claim). 

but the petition should not be argument with DFG-VK (newly established NGO with no background - I think of 2 people) - the argument is not the point. It is not who wins the argument will decide about 42113 Lego set. 

All we want to say is that there is strong group of people who do not find Lego Osprey offensive and we want it and we want us to make our decision about buying it.

"dear Lego, osprey is OK, we think "rescue service" is enough to make it civil and enough to cut it from military background and we want it, thank you"

That is all.

 

Edited July 20, 2020 by J_C

[Rudivdk]

This whole panicky looking rushed statement from TLG makes me wonder if there already was an internal struggle going on inside TLG about this set/licence. I can't imagine TLG being thrown off by some random group that easily. Maybe this was the final straw that broke the camels back. That would mean internal war (pun intended)...

[Maaboo the Witch]

2 minutes ago, Rudivdk said:

This whole panicky looking rushed statement from TLG makes me wonder if there already was an internal struggle going on inside TLG about this set/licence. I can't imagine TLG being thrown off by some random group that easily. Maybe this was the final straw that broke the camels back. That would mean internal war (pun intended)...

No, something deeper is going on here.

[AirDolphin]

updated draft of petition, anything to add or remove?

will include a picture of set 42113 as well 

 

"LEGO fans urge LEGO Group to releasee the LEGO Technic set 42113 Boeing Bell Osprey. LEGO set 42113 Bell Osprey as depicted has Search and Rescue designation and can be valuable in teaching children and adults alike the inner working of such complex machines. Neither the product as it depicted nor its box and instructions indicate to any military application. This set does not include any weapons or promote violence. The LEGO Group can release this set  as it adheres to its internal guidelines on the type of products they make. LEGO Technic 42113 will adhere to company policy of not creating military sets, the same way LEGO technic Air Race Jet 42066 was not military and did not break company policy. This will be a great opportunity for LEGO fans to build a licensed complex airplane which is true to life. The “Rescue Vehicle” designation is enough to satisfy its civilian use in the real world and as a LEGO set separating it from military use. We want this set. Please release LEGO set 42113 Bell Osprey."

[J_C]

10 minutes ago, AirDolphin said:

updated draft of petition, anything to add or remove?

will include a picture of set 42113 as well 

 

"LEGO fans urge LEGO Group to releasee the LEGO Technic set 42113 Boeing Bell Osprey. LEGO set 42113 Bell Osprey as depicted has Search and Rescue designation and can be valuable in teaching children and adults alike the inner working of such complex machines. Neither the product as it depicted nor its box and instructions indicate to any military application. This set does not include any weapons or promote violence. The LEGO Group can release this set  as it adheres to its internal guidelines on the type of products they make. LEGO Technic 42113 will adhere to company policy of not creating military sets, the same way LEGO technic Air Race Jet 42066 was not military and did not break company policy. This will be a great opportunity for LEGO fans to build a licensed complex airplane which is true to life. The “Rescue Vehicle” designation is enough to satisfy its civilian use in the real world and as a LEGO set separating it from military use. We want this set. Please release LEGO set 42113 Bell Osprey."

I think it is well said. 

Edited July 20, 2020 by J_C

[AirDolphin]

Final Draft, any more editions? 
How many petitions should be the target? 250?

Petition to The Lego Group ()

Tell The LEGO Group to release LEGO Technic set 42113 Bell Boeing V-22 OSPREY

Faz A Canada

Dear Lego Group 

LEGO fans urge LEGO Group to release the LEGO Technic set 42113 Bell Boeing V-22 Osprey. LEGO Technic set 42113 Bell Boeing V-22 Osprey as depicted has Search and Rescue designation and can be valuable in teaching children and adults alike the inner working of such complex machines. Neither the product as it is depicted nor its box and instructions indicate to any military application. This set does not include any weapons or promote violence. The LEGO Group can release this set as it adheres to its internal guidelines on the type of products they make. LEGO Technic set 42113 Bell Boeing V-22 Osprey will adhere to company policy of not creating military sets, the same way LEGO Technic set 42066 Air Race Jet was not military and did not break company policy. This will be a great opportunity for LEGO fans to build a licensed complex airplane which is true to life. The “Rescue Vehicle” designation is enough to satisfy its civilian use in the real world and as a LEGO set separating it from military use. We want this set. Please release LEGO Technic set 42113 Bell Boeing V-22 Osprey

 

Edited July 20, 2020 by AirDolphin