With the release of the Pirates of Baracuda Bay set and the Medieval Blacksmith on the way, I was thinking... If those Ideas sets end up being very successful, could they result in LEGO bringing back the themes those sets are based on? From what I've seen, a lot of people are willing to go as far as buying multiple copies of those very expensive sets in hopes that LEGO would notice the good sales. So, from a realistic perspective, could the success of those sets result in LEGO bringing back those lines? 

There have been some successful Ideas sets that resulted in LEGO making a whole product line (Minecraft comes to mind) or sets that resulted in LEGO making additional sets based on their IP (such as Back to the Future and Ghostbusters) so I personally think that it's quite possible. 

What do you think? Could the success of those Ideas sets result in LEGO making more sets based off them, or LEGO isn't interested in making more sets either way?

For that to happen, there would have to be some goodass sales data for that pirate ship. 

Edited April 2, 20204 yr by Brandon Pea

From the IDEAS website:

If the LEGO Group releases follow-up products based on the same original concept or licensed property, we produce them ourselves.

That sounds like an answer of "Yes" to the title question.

27 minutes ago, Brandon Pea said:

For that to happen, there would have to be some goodass sales data for that pirate ship.

And given the current and foreseeable global economic climate that's probably a stretch.

I think Ideas sets of retired themes would be a good way to bring back some of the key pieces that helped complete the look of these themes but that reviving the themes as waves of multiple sets is probably unlikely.

You really only need a few specific pieces and figures to compliment what are otherwise fairly universal parts in a given theme, the pirate bay has done just that.

57 minutes ago, koalayummies said:

And given the current and foreseeable global economic climate that's probably a stretch.

....and considering the current state of the situation around the world, I don't consider it likely that they'll return any time soon. The earliest I see them making any attempts would be in like....2022. 

Edited April 2, 20204 yr by Brandon Pea

1 hour ago, Brandon Pea said:

For that to happen, there would have to be some goodass sales data for that pirate ship. 

+ the 3-in-1 Creator ship might be an extra "Test" case, before a full revive.

Edited April 2, 20204 yr by TeriXeri

1 hour ago, TeriXeri said:

+ the 3-in-1 Creator ship might be an extra "Test" case, before a full revive.

Could be. Funny thing about it is that I've always considered Creator the testing ground. It seems that way considering that they make sets for a cheaper price. Brick inflation tax has been left far behind there. 

Personally, I think Creator 3in1 should focus only on civilian infrastructure for a year. Creator's target audience is much older than City so they may like the idea. Heck! I may even be able to finish my town. Friends does the same. 

Edited April 2, 20204 yr by Brandon Pea

I mean, it's possible? But I think the more likely scenario in most cases would be getting one good set based on an Ideas proposal and that's it. Maybe, just maybe, if sales for one were substantial enough it might inspire a follow-up (sort of like how the Ninjago City set got a smaller docks expansion a year later). But a full theme, with the production volume that implies, might risk oversaturating a market of nostalgic adults, many of whom might be more or less content with one big, impressive set rather than seeking to complement it with a larger number of smaller, cheaper, and more kid-focused sets.

Even if the sales of the set did encourage Lego to bring a theme like Pirates back in some capacity (which they were likely to do eventually anyway), it wouldn't necessarily be evidence on its own that a new, non-nostalgia-driven take on themes like Pirates or Castle wouldn't be a safer bet for the rollout of a full theme. After all, the nostalgia well only goes so deep—when you get past almost universally beloved sets like the Black Seas Barracuda, classic themes' tendency to introduce new factions over time means you'd soon wind up trying to wring success out of less popular or more divisive subthemes unless you sailed into the uncharted waters of new concepts instead.

Either way, I think it doesn't affect the goals of a Lego Ideas project creator, which should always be to design the most impressive singular concept they can create. There's no guarantee that a project will inspire a full series of sets, but there's pretty much a guarantee that it won't if it can't even gain enough supporters by standing alone on its own merits.

I wouldn't rule it out. The original Minecraft set sold so well that it turned into its own theme, so I could certainly see a scenario where Barracuda Bay is a catalyst for reviving Pirates. In response to some other users in this thread, if Lego were to bring back an old theme because of an Ideas set, they probably wouldn't be banking on adults buying those products to ensure the theme's success. We know that at some base level kids do like themes such as Castle and Pirates, simply due to how long they've been making those kinds of sets, so if a percentage of adults are willing to back an expensive Ideas set, it would be smart to capitalize on their interest with a theme soon after. Again, they wouldn't be doing the heavy lifting financially, but I would imagine that Lego would consider the fact that a large group of consumers with larger-yet wallets are interested in them bringing something back.

Edited April 3, 20204 yr by BrickJagger

I'm pretty sure Lego knows what adults (AFOLs) want. Because otherwise, they wouldn't had picked the Pirate Bay to begin with. Ideas or not I'm sure that we will see both Castle and Pirates come back when they think the time is right, but they probably won't focus those themes on adults because they never do. And I personally would very much appreciate the new look like what they did with Fantasy Castle back in the day, rather then re-hash of old classic sets. And mentioned above - the ship from the Creator line is a much better testing ground of whether kids are interested in pirates and pirate ships than the expensive expert Pirate Bay.

Baracuda is a nice nod to AFOLs, and I hope that sometime in the future we will see a Western set through the Ideas project, too.

I don't expect that the Pirate Bay sales figures will be the deciding factor in a go/no-go decision for a new Pirates theme, but if sales are good I'm sure we'll get more Pirates-type sets from Ideas, Creator Expert, and Creator 3-in-1 in the next few years, besides just 21322 and 31109.  The only Ideas sets to spin off a full theme were the Minecraft ones, but several others have prompted companion sets and other Ideas sets that "rhyme":

• 21102 Minecraft Micro World ---> Minecraft theme
• 21103 DeLorean Time Machine ---> Back to the Future Dimensions packs
• 21108 Ghostbusters Ecto-1 ---> Ghostbusters Firehouse, Ecto-1 from the new movie.  These were prompted by the 2016 movie, but they wouldn't have happened without the Ideas set paving the way.
• 21110 Research Institute ---> "rhymes" with 21312 Women of NASA and, to a lesser extent, 21320 Dinosaur Fossiles
• 21302 The Big Bang Theory ---> "rhymes" with 21319 Central Perk
• 21309 Saturn V ---> no dedicated NASA theme, but its sales success surely helped green-light 10266 Lunar Lander, 21321 International Space Station, and the 2019 City Space line.  Granted, these were also prompted by the 50th anniversary of Apollo 11 and the 20th anniversary of continuous habitation on the ISS, and the City line was a four-year refresh of the 2015 line, but! It's still quite possible the LM and the ISS wouldn't have happened without the Saturn V paving the way, and the City line might have been much smaller if the Saturn V hadn't been so successful.  (The 2019 wave was HUGE!)

BTW, I'm so glad they changed the name of the Pirate Bay for the set as released.  It wouldn't be a good look to release a set that shares a name with a notorious file-sharing and torrenting website!

18 hours ago, Lego David said:

If those Ideas sets end up being very successful, could they result in LEGO bringing back the themes those sets are based on?

Creating a theme of it? Hard to say, probably not. Creating similar onetimer sets for that niche? Totally.

 

Could it happen? Asking about the possibility? Here is the full statement I quoted above:

If the LEGO Group releases follow-up products based on the same original concept or licensed property, we produce them ourselves.

If we produce your product idea, it is possible the LEGO Group could consider your set as a starting point for a new playtheme, or release additional sets based on the same license. Any follow-up products based on the same concept or licensed property will be developed internally at the LEGO Group and independent from LEGO Ideas. We do not credit or compensate LEGO Ideas members for follow-up products. Read more in Prizes and Rewards.

And:

There is a possibility your product idea and our own new product development will unintentionally overlap.

Great minds think alike! If you get an idea for a new LEGO set, it’s possible our team of designers has had a similar idea on their own.

If the LEGO Group introduces a product similar to an idea submitted on LEGO Ideas, you understand and acknowledge that any coincidence is unintentional and release the LEGO Group against any claims of infringement.

The site plainly says follow up material is possible without offering any specifics. I take this to mean that yes, it's technically possible for a set to revive a theme, although I'm guessing the likelihood of that happening is pretty poor. Do I expect it in the case of Pirates? Heyww naww. They know the market pretty well and seem to have a schedule of every so many years for the theme. Apparently there isn't as consistent of a market as there is for, say, Ess-Dubya.

15 hours ago, Lyichir said:

I mean, it's possible? But I think the more likely scenario in most cases would be getting one good set based on an Ideas proposal and that's it. Maybe, just maybe, if sales for one were substantial enough it might inspire a follow-up (sort of like how the Ninjago City set got a smaller docks expansion a year later). But a full theme, with the production volume that implies, might risk oversaturating a market of nostalgic adults, many of whom might be more or less content with one big, impressive set rather than seeking to complement it with a larger number of smaller, cheaper, and more kid-focused sets.

Even if the sales of the set did encourage Lego to bring a theme like Pirates back in some capacity (which they were likely to do eventually anyway), it wouldn't necessarily be evidence on its own that a new, non-nostalgia-driven take on themes like Pirates or Castle wouldn't be a safer bet for the rollout of a full theme. After all, the nostalgia well only goes so deep—when you get past almost universally beloved sets like the Black Seas Barracuda, classic themes' tendency to introduce new factions over time means you'd soon wind up trying to wring success out of less popular or more divisive subthemes unless you sailed into the uncharted waters of new concepts instead.

Either way, I think it doesn't affect the goals of a Lego Ideas project creator, which should always be to design the most impressive singular concept they can create. There's no guarantee that a project will inspire a full series of sets, but there's pretty much a guarantee that it won't if it can't even gain enough supporters by standing alone on its own merits.

Agreed. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the only scenario I'm familiar with has been getting the singular Ideas sets and nothing more.

Your last paragraph pretty well echoes some of what's on the Ideas site. Agreed.

38 minutes ago, Captain Dee said:

Could it happen? Asking about the possibility? Here is the full statement I quoted above:

If the LEGO Group releases follow-up products based on the same original concept or licensed property, we produce them ourselves.

If we produce your product idea, it is possible the LEGO Group could consider your set as a starting point for a new playtheme, or release additional sets based on the same license. Any follow-up products based on the same concept or licensed property will be developed internally at the LEGO Group and independent from LEGO Ideas. We do not credit or compensate LEGO Ideas members for follow-up products. Read more in Prizes and Rewards.

And:

There is a possibility your product idea and our own new product development will unintentionally overlap.

Great minds think alike! If you get an idea for a new LEGO set, it’s possible our team of designers has had a similar idea on their own.

If the LEGO Group introduces a product similar to an idea submitted on LEGO Ideas, you understand and acknowledge that any coincidence is unintentional and release the LEGO Group against any claims of infringement.

The site plainly says follow up material is possible without offering any specifics. I take this to mean that yes, it's technically possible for a set to revive a theme, although I'm guessing the likelihood of that happening is pretty poor. Do I expect it in the case of Pirates? Heyww naww. They know the market pretty well and seem to have a schedule of every so many years for the theme. Apparently there isn't as consistent of a market as there is for, say, Ess-Dubya.

Agreed. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the only scenario I'm familiar with has been getting the singular Ideas sets and nothing more.

Your last paragraph pretty well echoes some of what's on the Ideas site. Agreed.

Oh, and don’t forget this one!

Please only suggest new ideas. No ideas to “bring back” old LEGO sets.

Don’t submit product ideas requesting we re-release or “bring back” discontinued LEGO products or themes in their original form, and don’t submit product ideas that are “modifications,” “improvements,” or “expansion sets” to existing or past LEGO sets. If you’re submitting a product idea based on a discontinued LEGO theme or brand (for example Blacktron or Octan), it must be your own new, creative work.

@MatthewRC Octan is still around though. 

11 minutes ago, Brandon Pea said:

@MatthewRC Octan is still around though. 

@Brandon Pea As an Easter Egg, as far as I know.

54 minutes ago, MatthewRC said:

@Brandon Pea As an Easter Egg, as far as I know.

....and in pretty much every service station ever made (the 2020 one included). Though Shell has gotten lots of fame in Lego too. Octan even has OctanE now, which is it's new EV branch. 

Edited April 3, 20204 yr by Brandon Pea

19 hours ago, Brandon Pea said:

Personally, I think Creator 3in1 should focus only on civilian infrastructure for a year.

Nah, no way, the last thing Creator's Three-In-One line should do is narrow its focus now. The way I see it, they should continue broadening their horizons, making every year's offerings more diverse than the last, having the line be to playsets what the Collectable Minifigure theme is to minifigures. 

Maybe, maybe not.  One successful product may not translate into a successful theme with follow on offerings.  I think it needs to be assessed on a case by case basis. There is wishful thinking and then there is the hard reality of making a business case of it for Lord Business' approval and getting Kragled. 

 

3 hours ago, MatthewRC said:

Don’t submit product ideas requesting we re-release or “bring back” discontinued LEGO products or themes in their original form, and don’t submit product ideas that are “modifications,” “improvements,” or “expansion sets” to existing or past LEGO sets. If you’re submitting a product idea based on a discontinued LEGO theme or brand (for example Blacktron or Octan), it must be your own new, creative work.

It's funny how The Pirate Bay started out as a completely new idea, yet LEGO ended up making a re-release of the Black Seas Baracuda instead, therefore going against their own rule .

Edited April 3, 20204 yr by Lego David

The case can be made for nearly every IDEAS set that's come along, with Ghostbusters and the Back to the Future Dimensions pack being the only two exceptions I can think of off the top of my head, that these sets are generally singular releases. There's been no more Tron, no more Voltron, no Back to the Future aside from the Dimensions, no NASA space stuff outside of IDEAS, and no Classic Space revival after Pete Reid's Exosuit and the few LEGO Movies' sets. As a mecha fan, I'd love to see more versions of Voltron released, and most certainly more Classic Space inspired stuff, but I've come to the sober conclusion that it's just not going to happen. Bear in mind that many of the current set designers grew up with and are huge fans of Classic Space, and yet even with that much influence behind the scenes, the amount of CS we've gotten over the years has been a dribble rather than the deluge many of us wish for. I'm thankful for those dribbles, though. Benny's Spaceship was such a wonderful surprise when it was revealed, and of course, my mind went into overdrive thinking of the possibilities of what's to come, but Benny's ship was a one-off for the first LEGO Movie. When space was rumored to be a main setting for LM2, again, I dared hope for more CS goodness, and we got some, but, sadly, not in the grandiose scale of Benny's ship. So, as the saying goes, I believe that the classic themes' ships have sailed so far as any real strong representation on shelves going forward. IDEAS is a great venue to that end, as it provides a potential doorway for bringing those old themes back to life, if ever so briefly. I wasn't really aware of the Barracuda Bay submission until pics of the actual IDEAS set were revealed, and having watched the designer vid and read early blogger reviews, I love what they did with the final model compared to the submission, which was a great idea itself. But taking the ship elements out of the playset to create a modern facsimile of the classic Black Seas Barracuda, as well as infusing the entire model with the classic Pirates look and feel, was a brilliant creative direction, IMHO. I'm not really a Pirates fan (although I jumped on board, pun fully intended, when the theme was revived back in 2009, culminating in the most impressive Imperial Flagship, which I still have displayed b/c it's awesome). I haven't really bought any Pirates stuff after that, but I did very much enjoy that particular line of sets, and I believe I bought just about every set in the '09-'10 line. I'm on the fence for the Barracuda Bay set, although, I must confess, it looks pretty great. I'd love to see something in this vein done with Classic Space themes for an IDEAS set.

24 minutes ago, Lego David said:

It's funny how The Pirate Bay started out as a completely new idea, yet LEGO ended up making a re-release of the Black Seas Baracuda instead, therefore going against their own rule .

Well, they make the rules, and they can break them if it suits their whim. Personally, as I said, I think it was good decision, as the final set, to me anyway, has a much more fun inviting look to it than the darker submission. And, too, the ability to assemble the broken ship into a complete model, based off the classic Black Seas Barracuda, is just a great play feature. I think the final model has a broader appeal. That may not be to everyone's liking, but from a sales perspective, it's the way to go. Too, I think the nostalgic appeal will certainly entice a lot of older folks who still carry a fondness for their old Pirates sets. I really have no nostalgia for Pirates, and it's appealing to me. :)

1 hour ago, Lego David said:

It's funny how The Pirate Bay started out as a completely new idea, yet LEGO ended up making a re-release of the Black Seas Baracuda instead, therefore going against their own rule .

It's not against their rule. That rule is about submissions, not finished products. And anyway, the form the set took (a pirate base built from a shipwreck that can be converted into a more polished update of the original ship) is still a very different concept than the original set on its own (much like how the large scale and modular nature of the Saturn V set made it substantially different from the previous set version of said spacecraft). It's what I would call "transformative"—using the original set as inspiration but creating something wholly unique with it.

I think a lot of people don't realize how many of the Ideas guidelines are less about what Lego could or couldn't do as a set and more about making the service more usable in general. If not for that rule, for instance, Ideas would likely be glut with "remake" ideas that were barely changed from their original releases if at all, to the point that original, unexplored concepts like the program was designed for would have a harder time getting attention. So this rule was introduced to weed out those kinds of proposals. Nothing would prevent Lego from exploring that sort of "remake" concept on their own, but straightforward remakes are not what the Ideas program was intended for and there is little benefit to Lego for soliciting concepts based entirely on their original sets from the community.

On 4/2/2020 at 6:04 PM, Lego David said:

So, from a realistic perspective, could the success of those sets result in LEGO bringing back those lines?

Long and short: No. It's one thing for some people to indulge in their nostalgia or movie fandom and buy an ugly 200 Euro pirate ship or a 300 Euro Ghostbusters HQ, but a whole different thing to turn this into a whole series that can sustain itself. Putting on the rose-tinted glasses usually is a bad business adviser. And let's be honest with regards to the specific issue: Pirates (and some other subjects) are dead in the overall pop culture, so assuming LEGO would go out on a limb to transform this into an all out theme seems to me more than a major stretch of the imagination.

I would also argue that Ideas more or less has become a place for "Here's your tree house set, now shut up." fast turnaround solutions where they can quickly cash in on highly demanded singular sets, not a test bed for the viability of long-term series. In fact as per my own casual observations I tend to think that most themes wouldn't last long, given how quickly sales numbers seem to drop off after a while and how little some of those sets are even being discussed on social media or forums like this very one, which to me is pretty much an issue with a lot of LEGO's releases these days. They don't appear to "have legs" anymore and perhaps that#s also why LEGO have fallen into this "more,more,more; bigger, bigger, bigger" pattern on some level...

Mylenium

On 4/3/2020 at 11:26 AM, Lyichir said:

It's not against their rule. That rule is about submissions, not finished products.

I think you're really missing the irony here. They have a rule about not submitting remakes of existing sets, but they turned an original submission into a remake of an existing set.

Edited April 4, 20204 yr by danth

11 hours ago, danth said:

I think you're really missing the irony here. They have a rule about not submitting remakes of existing sets, but they turned an original submission into a remake of an existing set.

Well put!

Mylenium