2020 Mindstorms set

[pasquentmax]

19 hours ago, Philo said:

A few positive points compared to EV3, not yet mentioned:

• Small size
• Light weight
• Built in rechargeable battery
• Screen is coarse, OK, but large and visible from a distance (try that with EV3!)

But...no more daisy chain, no more data logging, no more screen, no more live debugging...It's the death of mindstorms

[f2k]

42 minutes ago, pasquentmax said:

But...no more daisy chain, no more data logging, no more screen, no more live debugging...It's the death of mindstorms

I've got my fingers crossed, but I fear you might be right.

It's really odd that they finally implement native support for propper programming but then take away the tools you need to make it work.

[GrandiJoos]

I think Daisy chaining and the screen are indeed gone. But why would data logging and live debugging not be possible? You can log the data through Python locally on the brick which is then accessible through your coding environment, for example Microsoft Visual Studio Code. Via your coding environment you can also live debug your program as you can have terminal access to the brick.

[Lok24]

Just now, GrandiJoos said:

I think Daisy chaining and the screen are indeed gone.

It should be possible via python to connect multiple hubs - perhabs?

1 minute ago, GrandiJoos said:

But why would data logging and live debugging not be possible? .

As far as I know the hardware has no file-system....

[AVCampos]

18 minutes ago, f2k said:

It's really odd that they finally implement native support for propper programming but then take away the tools you need to make it work.

The EV3 also has official support for Python.

[Mr Hobbles]

55 minutes ago, Lok24 said:

As far as I know the hardware has no file-system....

There is a file system, using MicroPython you can write to files. I don’t think the space is that big though, possibly just a few MB’s - there’s no microSD expansion slot either.

[Lok24]

3 minutes ago, Mr Hobbles said:

There is a file system, using MicroPython you can write to files. I don’t think the space is that big though, possibly just a few MB’s - there’s no microSD expansion slot either.

Ah, I referred to this page, the paragraph "Saving a program permanently"

https://docs.pybricks.com/en/latest/start_pup.html

Edited June 13, 2020 by Lok24

[Tcm0]

Regarding the file system: it has one and it can be read/ accessed with rshell. There is also a python file that can copy files to the hub in the spiketools github archive.

[GrandiJoos]

3 minutes ago, Tcm0 said:

Regarding the file system: it has one and it can be read/ accessed with rshell. There is also a python file that can copy files to the hub in the spiketools github archive.

Any idea how much space there is? Would like to put some custom sound files for instance. But also for logging this is relevant.

[Oky]

13 hours ago, howitzer said:

So... if I'm new to Mindstorms, should I wait for the new 51515 to be released or stick to the old one? Or maybe go for the Spike Prime? Many people here seem to think that 51515 isn't much of an improvement, but as it's not backwards compatible with EV3, investing in EV3 doesn't feel a very good idea. I've been wanting to get into Mindstorms for a long time now, but the starter sets are expensive so I'd like to make a good choice here.

I am wondering the same. I am not exactly new to Mindstorms as I do have V1 and NXT, but I haven't bought any Mindstorms or Technic since then, so if I wanted to get back into it, what would be the best way to go? V4 does seem disappointing like many have said as it seems to be trading off one thing for another for the most part, making it not much of an upgrade, especially if you don't have any other LPF 2.0 stuff that it would be compatible with like me. Any advice would be appreciated here, especially from anyone who has both EV3 and Spike Prime.

Since the hardware is sadly not backwards compatible, I wonder if the software at least is, i.e. if you can have the new hub communicate with EV3/NXT?

7 hours ago, pasquentmax said:

But...no more daisy chain, no more data logging, no more screen, no more live debugging...It's the death of mindstorms

Where does it say all that? That would indeed be very disappointing if you couldn't daisy chain anymore.

[Lyichir]

2 hours ago, Oky said:

Where does it say all that? That would indeed be very disappointing if you couldn't daisy chain anymore.

Couldn't this potentially do basically the same thing wirelessly by connecting two hubs via Bluetooth? I don't think there'd be anything in the hardware itself that could prevent you from doing so. And the Powered Up app is supposed to be getting an update that lets you use multiple hubs together at some point, so I don't see why they couldn't do the same here.

[GianCann]

16 hours ago, Lok24 said:

Ah, I referred to this page, the paragraph "Saving a program permanently"

A clarification: In PU device (Control+, City, Boost HUB) there is not a storage memory like a "file system" (or "SPIFFS", like ha ESP8822/ESP32).

"Saving a program permanently" mean the possibility to merge a custom main.py program with the Pybricks firmware and load together on the memory of the chip.

I don't know what type of the "file system" feature has the Spike/Mindstorms HUB (eventually if present...), but in every case is not like a SD card inserted into EV3 brick.

11 hours ago, Oky said:

Since the hardware is sadly not backwards compatible, I wonder if the software at least is, i.e. if you can have the new hub communicate with EV3/NXT?

Yes, it's possible (at least with EV3)

 

[Tcm0]

11 hours ago, Oky said:

I am wondering the same. I am not exactly new to Mindstorms as I do have V1 and NXT, but I haven't bought any Mindstorms or Technic since then, so if I wanted to get back into it, what would be the best way to go? V4 does seem disappointing like many have said as it seems to be trading off one thing for another for the most part, making it not much of an upgrade, especially if you don't have any other LPF 2.0 stuff that it would be compatible with like me. Any advice would be appreciated here, especially from anyone who has both EV3 and Spike Prime.

The EV3 can use the NXT's sensors (and RCX sensors if you use low level programming (EV3DEV) and have an adapter cable).

[GrandiJoos]

And regarding the 'non' replaceable batteries: there seems to be a solution with Lego's "large hub battery" (#45610):

https://education.lego.com/en-us/products/lego-technic-large-hub-battery/4561

[Lok24]

Just now, GrandiJoos said:

And regarding the 'non' replaceable batteries: there seems to be a solution with Lego's "large hub battery" (#45610):

 

That doesn't solve my problem:

beeing on en event, having robots moving around.
This must of course be possible without a cable, cause they are moving.

Sure I could replace an empty battery with a second - loaded-  battery. -
But where should I load them? I would need a second Hub just for loading.
Loading is only possible in the hub, the battery has no USB connector.

[Lok24]

@GianCann @Tcm0 @Mr Hobbles

thanks for clarification about saving files.
I did not find any commands for that in the SPIKE app yet, my fault.

[GroundskeeperWillie]

Did anyone explore the possibility of bluetooth connectivity between the smarthub and NXT or EV3? It seems it should be possible, right? I'm kinda fond of using Lejos and its workflow but would of course like to be able to integrate the new stuff.

[JaBaCaDaBra]

On 6/14/2020 at 12:17 PM, Lok24 said:

But where should I load them

I suppose it's a matter time before loading cradles will appear from third party's

[Lok24]

Just now, JaBaCaDaBra said:

I suppose it's a matter time before loading cradles will appear from third party's

I'm over the year on events playing with the things and recommend the systems (EV3 and Boost) to parents.
I will not do that with such an inclompete system.
No charger, no extension cables....

It was hard enough the last years to "explain" Powered Up.

 

 

[Jim]

I'm a bit late to the party with this topic AND Spike Prime. But I am working on a Spike Prime review as we speak.

[Munchkin255]

I have primarily used Mindstorms to build mobile robots and to take on the challenges of First Lego League.

Based on my usage of Mindstorms I am thrilled about Spike Prime - so much that I am selling my old NXT and EV3 - only to use Spike Prime.

My only reasons for using the SD-card reader on the EV3, was to run Python - and that is now the built in operating system of the Spike Prime. The USB-port was likewise only used for a WIFI-adaptor in order to make up for the unstable BT connection, that I experienced with EV3.

The Spike Prime display might not be the same resolution of the EV3 display, but I honestly never found the EV3 display that great. Hard to read on stationary robots and impossible to read once the robots were driving around.

Lately I have been programming the EV3 using Python and Microsoft Visual Studio Code. For all my debugging it has been fully sufficient to have the EV3 send values back to my PC for debugging. This I expect will also be possible with Spike Prime.

I will without a doubt recommend Spike Prime (or set 51515) to all children and their parents.

 

[Navity]

looks cool

[Jim]

On 6/20/2020 at 2:59 PM, Munchkin255 said:

Based on my usage of Mindstorms I am thrilled about Spike Prime - so much that I am selling my old NXT and EV3 - only to use Spike Prime.

Agreed.

On 6/20/2020 at 2:59 PM, Munchkin255 said:

My only reasons for using the SD-card reader on the EV3, was to run Python - and that is now the built in operating system of the Spike Prime. The USB-port was likewise only used for a WIFI-adaptor in order to make up for the unstable BT connection, that I experienced with EV3.

Agreed.

On 6/20/2020 at 2:59 PM, Munchkin255 said:

The Spike Prime display might not be the same resolution of the EV3 display, but I honestly never found the EV3 display that great. Hard to read on stationary robots and impossible to read once the robots were driving around.

Agreed.

On 6/20/2020 at 2:59 PM, Munchkin255 said:

Lately I have been programming the EV3 using Python and Microsoft Visual Studio Code. For all my debugging it has been fully sufficient to have the EV3 send values back to my PC for debugging. This I expect will also be possible with Spike Prime.

Agreed.

On 6/20/2020 at 2:59 PM, Munchkin255 said:

I will without a doubt recommend Spike Prime (or set 51515) to all children and their parents.

Agreed.

 

[msk6003]

I wonder if spike has external display module... It will be useful If anyone want use display for something.

[nikzagvit]

I think the display may be a tablet or smartphone screen, but this feature has not been implemented yet. I'm not making a statement, just an assumption.