2020 Mindstorms set

[Toastie]

22 hours ago, jonwil said:

Its clear that one of the goals when making the new Mindstorms programmable brick was to reduce the cost of the programmable brick over the one in the EV3 (lower spec microcontroller, not having an LCD, stuff like that)

Well, I believe I have voiced this before, so my apologies of being somewhat acid:

The cost of electronics, once fully developed, is next to nothing, as compared to any other assembly aspect. Which may include assembly time, number of individual major "pieces" to be put together, etc. But it is never the microcontroller, the PCB board, the number of parts soldered to it (surface mounted that is, so a Chinese machine does it anyways).

It is much more so: Firmware, operating system, accessibility, etc. 

I believe this new Mindstorms line is much more aimed at addressing a different target audience. The EV3 needs serious multilevel attention and awareness. Sure, folks here program that thing into the heavens, but you know what? There are only a "few" freaks here - as compared to a "general audience". Few is relative and the general audience is relative. But TLG has to sell sets. Regardless of how much a set costs in production - it eventually pays off >only< in sales, and not in "likes".

I believe there is no "downgrade" here - it is simply a smart move to generate more revenue on this type of line of product. PLUS: It is a very attractive approach. I personally like it very much. Will not go there - simply because I took the long way - RCX, NXT, EV3 and everything in between. And now Boost/PUp/Spike. So the differentiation becomes - well - almost arbitrary. But not with the line of RCX/NXT/EV3; this one is straight and clear.

In my perception, the new Mindstorms set is diverting into another branch. Let's see how that evolves!

Best
Thorsten

 

 

   

[JintaiZ]

1 hour ago, sulu86 said:

Its not just the lower specs. The whole experience is like a downgrade if you're interested in more than casual toylike use.  What I mean is that the EV3 is being used in so many different environments. It can be used at home as well as education environments from beginner stages with graphical programming to very very advanced robotic stuff. There are custom operating systems, universities are using them for computer science. Master thesis have been written on projects that were built on Ev3. Autonomous robots that can scan rooms and make maps. You could attach a couple of them together to have more input/output options or you can interface them via python modules to more powerful pcs to offload some serious calculation work. Theres been mapping projects with useage of lidar scanners, depth sensing cameras etc, You can connect them to a single board computer like the raspberry pi via usb and basically use the ev3 as a pure i/o adapter if you want. Custom ev3dev linux gives you all the options. 

The newer product offers minor improvements in sensors/peripherals but is lacking all of the versatility of the old product.

 

What I dont get is Legos strategy. On the one hand the 31313 set has been taken off the shelves here, but on the other hand the marketing guys are advertising this as a product sitting between wedo and ev3 thats acting as a sort of preparation for the ev3. Afterall it says so pretty clearly on the lego website. But if that was the case, why discontinue 31313?

I wouldn't really call it a downgrade... the older one might be more complicated, but the new one might be more suitable for younger builders. Therefore I wouldn't say any of them is worse than the other.

One obvious upgrade is that the new one has better value...

[Lok24]

11 hours ago, sulu86 said:

I What I mean is that the EV3 is being used in so many different environments.

 

Yes, and why shouldn't that all happen with Spike/mindstorms as well?

[AVCampos]

My hunch is that TLG thought that MINDSTORMS, with the evolution RCX > NXT > EV3, was starting to become too powerful and complex for kids to dip their toes in robotics, so they decided to launch this easier-to-use system.

The discontinuation of the 31313 doesn't necessarily mean the end of the EV3 ecosystem: just like the RCX and the NXT got "refresh" sets, it's possible that a new EV3-based set is in the works.

[jonwil]

There is no reason they couldn't have made software for the EV3 (using Scratch or whatever else) that was just as easy to program as whatever the software for this new brick is.

 

[GrandiJoos]

I have a question where you might be able to help: I'm looking for the installer file for the 51515 software for Windows (10, 64 bit). The Microsoft store link is blocked on my (employer provided) laptop, but I can install executables.

I've found the education Spike prime software, but that's not what I'm after of course.

Does any of you have an idea where to get the software? If not, I'll post back the reply from Lego which I hope to receive in 4-7 working days...

Update 19-10-2020: the Spike education software works without the need to change firmware on the brick.

Edited October 19, 2020 by GrandiJoos
Update wrt spike software

[angelool]

Really nice. Official look of Mindstormrized Land Rover Defender.

 

[Jim]

Since they are using 6 color sensors, it makes me wonder whether there's a second hub in the vehicle.

It looks very cool! Would love to see more detailed pics.

[GrandiJoos]

28 minutes ago, Jim said:

Since they are using 6 color sensors, it makes me wonder whether

... It'll be a real set. 6 color sensors just for lights might be a bit of overkill, right? So although it looks really cool, it could be a signal to the community that Lego heard/read about our 'white land rover' wish and topped it with a white mindstorms rover. 

If they are going this path I hope it will be expansion packs on top of the basic mindstorms set.

[Jim]

Just now, GrandiJoos said:

... It'll be a real set.

Do you mean real set or not a real set?

[GrandiJoos]

I was continuing your sentence: I'm wondering whether it'll be a real set, 6 sensors is a bit much.

[AVCampos]

1 hour ago, Jim said:

it makes me wonder whether there's a second hub in the vehicle.

Either that, or there's a single hub for the lights only. Now there's overkill!

Or... and I'm putting on my tinfoil hat for this, there could be a hub in the horizon, that allows the user to connect multiple sensors in the same port on the Prime?

[JintaiZ]

On 10/19/2020 at 4:43 AM, GrandiJoos said:

I was continuing your sentence: I'm wondering whether it'll be a real set, 6 sensors is a bit much.

I'm assuming it's a prototype...

[Toastie]

On 10/19/2020 at 9:35 AM, GrandiJoos said:

6 color sensors just for lights might be a bit of overkill, right?

Well, I guess this is rather nicely phrased; 6 sensors and no actor undermines the whole idea, doesn't it? And yes, it is a waste of resources - just lighting up things. For that purpose, a $2,50 RGB LED controller (including remote and built in color changing sequencing), along with a 12V wall wart for $5 for endless operation is more appropriate. 

No, this must be ... oh well. Whatever. I also believe that the firmware in the Spike will flash: "I want to do something else" in Morse code when you attach 6 color sensors.

Wait: (just to make sure)

Best
Thorsten 

[msk6003]

On 10/19/2020 at 5:56 PM, AVCampos said:

Either that, or there's a single hub for the lights only. Now there's overkill!

Or... and I'm putting on my tinfoil hat for this, there could be a hub in the horizon, that allows the user to connect multiple sensors in the same port on the Prime?

I agree with this. Those color sensor's LED is to much bright than it need and turn on when hub is on. 

[Jim]

I read on Facebook that someone had issues using a grey motor on the Spike Prime hub, but he could use the blue version. I have both sets, so I need to try for myself, but I was wondering if someone had tested this?!

Same goes for the Volvo motor, which has a different part number than the one used in Spike.

[Oky]

Does anyone know if it's possible to trigger sounds/music using the remote controls in the new Mindstorms app? I tried placing a "play sound" or "play note" block under the "when button is pressed" block and nothing happens.

Also, is there any way to remove any added extensions from the blocks library or remove sounds from the list that you added to the canvas?

I'm using the app on an iPhone 11.

[GrandiJoos]

1 hour ago, Oky said:

Does anyone know if it's possible to trigger sounds/music using the remote controls in the new Mindstorms app? I tried placing a "play sound" or "play note" block under the "when button is pressed" block and nothing happens.

Also, is there any way to remove any added extensions from the blocks library or remove sounds from the list that you added to the canvas?

I'm using the app on an iPhone 11.

Hi Oky,

I guess 'when button is pressed' only triggers on the physical buttons on the hub, not on the remote buttons. Could you try with a specific remote button (or by pressing the physical buttons)?

In my experience notes are played through the hub, and sounds are played through the smart device or laptop :(

PS: there is a Lego IDEAS contest ongoing until December 8 where everyone can submit their sixth EV3 or Robot Inventor (51515) model.

Edited November 11, 2020 by GrandiJoos

[Oky]

28 minutes ago, GrandiJoos said:

Hi Oky,

I guess 'when button is pressed' only triggers on the physical buttons on the hub, not on the remote buttons. Could you try with a specific remote button (or by pressing the physical buttons)?

In my experience notes are played through the hub, and sounds are played through the smart device or laptop :(

The "[button] is [pressed]" block is one of the options under the remote control blocks, so I don't think it relates to the physical buttons. I've tried other controls like the joystick, but nothing produces a sound.

As I understand it, only beeps and the sounds under "Sounds on Hub" are played through the Hub. Everything else is through your device. When I put the "play sound" or "note" blocks under "when program starts" block, it does play it through my phone.

It's possible that it's because I'm not connected to a hub since I don't actually have the set which is why I wanted to see if it worked for anyone else. I'm just playing around with the app to get a better understanding of the new software for the contest you mentioned.