[MOC] Frisco #1501 (4-8-2 Mountain Type)

[legonerd54321]

Hello, all! Today I bring you my latest creation, a 4-8-2 mountain type based off of Frisco's 1500 class.

 

I have been able to fall more in love with Frisco locomotives as I've been helping take part in cosmetically restore the Frisco 1501 located in Rolla, Missouri. Not only that, but my great grandfather was one of the engineers of the 1501 before it was retired.

Some history of the locomotive: “Steam locomotive 1501 was once part of a proud stable of thirty such engines on the Frisco Railway system. Built in 1923, the handsome modern machine was the pride of the fleet until dieselization of the system in the late 1940s. The 1501 was part of an initial order for fifteen locomotives placed with the Baldwin Locomotive Works in Eddystone, Pennsylvania in 1923. The order was the Frisco's response to delays in passenger service due to the tortuous Ozark territory west of St. Louis. The oil-buring locomotives were a type nicknamed "Mountain", which has a wheel arrangement of four lead or pilot wheels, eight driving wheels, and two trailing wheels under the cab (4-8-2).”

 

 

Down below you can see the progress of the locomotive from the very beginning. I decided to update this as to help show the final product. 

Edited January 19, 2021 by legonerd54321
Wanted to update and show the final product.

[SteamSewnEmpire]

Wow. Nice.

I do kind of wonder if it wouldn't benefit from inverting the wheels to represent larger, custom drivers? I appreciate that this would require an extensive retooling (lengthening the boiler; re-seating the lead and trailing trucks, etc.), but the 1500s had approximately 70" drivers, which is a bit much to ask of the stock wheel to represent.

*Edit* If those are already custom wheels, I suggest lifting the boiler a plate or two. It may seem unnatural, but you should be able to see "daylight" between the tops of the drivers and the bottom of the cylinder. 

Edited May 20, 2020 by SteamSewnEmpire

[legonerd54321]

3 minutes ago, SteamSewnEmpire said:

Wow. Nice.

I do kind of wonder if it wouldn't benefit from inverting the wheels to represent larger, custom drivers? I appreciate that this would require an extensive retooling (lengthening the boiler; re-seating the lead and trailing trucks, etc.), but the 1500s had approximately 70" drivers, which is a bit much to ask of the stock wheel to represent.

Ah yes, I have definitely thought about using Big Ben's XL drivers. Like you said, it'd require an extensive retooling, though. I'll have to think about it.

[alfredboyer]

Beautiful ! you'll build it with real parts ?

Maybe you could try to hide the sharp line between the red roof and the black boiler ? I think that using a flexible axle/tube put ahead of the cabin could make the general look more curly.

[Pdaitabird]

Wonderful! The details and proportions are spot-on!

[zephyr1934]

That looks spot on! A right proper workhorse. Is the cab roof normal red? If so, you might want to also moc-up a variant with dark red. You might want to swap out the tan axle pins on the blind drives with black axles.

[legonerd54321]

20 hours ago, alfredboyer said:

Beautiful ! you'll build it with real parts ?

Maybe you could try to hide the sharp line between the red roof and the black boiler ? I think that using a flexible axle/tube put ahead of the cabin could make the general look more curly.

Yes, I do plan on building it with real parts! I'll think about trying a flex tube to hide the sharp lines, thanks!

2 hours ago, zephyr1934 said:

That looks spot on! A right proper workhorse. Is the cab roof normal red? If so, you might want to also moc-up a variant with dark red. You might want to swap out the tan axle pins on the blind drives with black axles.

Yes, the cab roof is normal red, or signal red. I haven't thought about the dark red, though. And I'll switch out the axle pins with black axles, thanks!

[legonerd54321]

So I've managed to retool the entire locomotive and give it Big Ben's XL wheels (easier said than done) and I think it solved a lot of scaling issues when it came to the length of the locomotive.

I've also changed out the color of the roof to red like Zephyr suggested, and it looks nice! I wasn't able to get a flex hose to work, though, so I replaced some parts and was able to make it look more natural along the roof.

[SteamSewnEmpire]

25 minutes ago, legonerd54321 said:

So I've managed to retool the entire locomotive and give it Big Ben's XL wheels (easier said than done) and I think it solved a lot of scaling issues when it came to the length of the locomotive.

I've also changed out the color of the roof to red like Zephyr suggested, and it looks nice! I wasn't able to get a flex hose to work, though, so I replaced some parts and was able to make it look more natural along the roof.

I think I'd still attempt to raise the boiler a plate or two, but leave the cab as-is. It's your model, and I am not trying to drive the car for you, but to my eyes, she still looks a bit too low. Ideally, the tops of the drivers (not the over-sized flanges) should be either where the boiler begins, or a plate above. Also, it looks like your cab actually has a couple of plates of height to "give" to the boiler, relative to the detailing (the cab shouldn't go any higher - just the boiler).

I know this may seem overly anal, but everything else about the model is first-rate, so I am guessing you're probably pretty picky about details, too. Plus, I have done these massive "oh fudge" reworks on engines of my own, so it's not like I am advocating for some punishment I haven't suffered in turn.

*Edit* Just noticed something else: if you hope to run this engine, you are going to want to give yourself more clearance on the cow-catcher. It's riding directly on top of the rail heads, and that's a no-go for running. You'll need at least one plate of clearance, and possibly more.

You might also want to rework the trailing truck and try to include one of big ben's medium drivers. On the prototype, the wheel in that truck is noticeably larger than those of the lead bogie or the tender. This is a pretty small change and could probably be accomplished relatively easily (and if you are tackling the other stuff, why not bag it all at once?). 

Edited May 21, 2020 by SteamSewnEmpire

[zephyr1934]

Looking good!

18 hours ago, SteamSewnEmpire said:

I think I'd still attempt to raise the boiler a plate or two, but leave the cab as-is. It's your model, and I am not trying to drive the car for you, but to my eyes, she still looks a bit too low.

I don't know, if I were going to tweak anything, it would be to try to capture the conical expansion of the boiler between the sand dome and steam dome. However, this gentle change is something that is VERY tricky to do in lego. I would think you only need to capture the increase in height and can ignore the increased width as you move back along the boiler since the width would be hard to see from most angles and insignificant from the few angles where you could see it. The best I've ever managed is doing the rise in half plate steps.

 

 

[legonerd54321]

21 hours ago, SteamSewnEmpire said:

I think I'd still attempt to raise the boiler a plate or two, but leave the cab as-is. It's your model, and I am not trying to drive the car for you, but to my eyes, she still looks a bit too low. Ideally, the tops of the drivers (not the over-sized flanges) should be either where the boiler begins, or a plate above. Also, it looks like your cab actually has a couple of plates of height to "give" to the boiler, relative to the detailing (the cab shouldn't go any higher - just the boiler)

Oh no, it's alright! I was back at the locomotive when you wrote that and was able to see what you mean by that she was too low. This is my first attempt at a steam locomotive in 8 wide so I'm taking any and all tips/ideas into consideration. Raising the boiler up by a stud allowed me to add more details like a builders plate (which was just recently cleaned and polished, it's shiny!)

I replaced some of the plates and used 2x2 inverted slopes for a placeholder as I figure out how to properly replicate the suspensions.

3 hours ago, zephyr1934 said:

I don't know, if I were going to tweak anything, it would be to try to capture the conical expansion of the boiler between the sand dome and steam dome. However, this gentle change is something that is VERY tricky to do in lego. I would think you only need to capture the increase in height and can ignore the increased width as you move back along the boiler since the width would be hard to see from most angles and insignificant from the few angles where you could see it. The best I've ever managed is doing the rise in half plate steps

The only successful way I was able to come up with to replicate the conical expansion was by raising it by a plate with the 1x2 slope pieces with a left/right notch.

[SteamSewnEmpire]

2 hours ago, legonerd54321 said:

Oh no, it's alright! I was back at the locomotive when you wrote that and was able to see what you mean by that she was too low. This is my first attempt at a steam locomotive in 8 wide so I'm taking any and all tips/ideas into consideration. Raising the boiler up by a stud allowed me to add more details like a builders plate (which was just recently cleaned and polished, it's shiny!)

I replaced some of the plates and used 2x2 inverted slopes for a placeholder as I figure out how to properly replicate the suspensions.

The only successful way I was able to come up with to replicate the conical expansion was by raising it by a plate with the 1x2 slope pieces with a left/right notch.

Much better. 

[zephyr1934]

20 hours ago, legonerd54321 said:

The only successful way I was able to come up with to replicate the conical expansion was by raising it by a plate with the 1x2 slope pieces with a left/right notch.

Okay, brickshelf is back up. I don't have any great photos of the stepping up, but here's a mediocre shot, look under the bell.

If you went up half a plate in 2 stud long steps it might actually work.

[legonerd54321]

1 hour ago, zephyr1934 said:

Okay, brickshelf is back up. I don't have any great photos of the stepping up, but here's a mediocre shot, look under the bell.

-snip-

If you went up half a plate in 2 stud long steps it might actually work.

Oh yeah I totally see and understand it now! How were you able to achieve that?? 

[zephyr1934]

22 hours ago, legonerd54321 said:

Oh yeah I totally see and understand it now! How were you able to achieve that?? 

In the olden days the easiest way was probably a sequence of headlight bricks, but now brackets make it even easier, e.g.,

 

 

 

[coaster]

I was able to get a little more granularity at the expansion by coupling zephyr's headlight/bracket trick with sideways jumper plates.  The headlights offset by 1.6mm, but a half-stud being 4mm allows for a difference of 0.8mm/step.  Picture's not the best, but you can kinda see it here.

 

[legonerd54321]

Alright so I've been tinkering with the techniques that @zephyr1934 and @coaster have shown and I've found a way that's okay for now. My hardest thing was trying to figure out the half plate gap that would show on the sides, but I'm satisfied with it for right now.

[ALCO]

This is a really nice locomotive!  I'd love to see this IRB.

[zephyr1934]

15 hours ago, legonerd54321 said:

My hardest thing was trying to figure out the half plate gap that would show on the sides, but I'm satisfied with it for right now.

Handrails are good for hiding things like that (grin). If you have curved slopes on the side you can line them up to cover the gap: there is a half plate lip on the end of all of the curved slopes, if you place the studs out slope to completely cover the lip on the first step of the expansion, the next lip back will be seen but it will not look out of place. In the case of just half plate offsets you can mix studs up bricks with studs out tiles (a sideways 1x tile is 2.5 plates tall). In the case of coasters 1/4 plate offset most of the above would still work, or 1x2 tiles are amazing because they are not locked into a particular stud position, or simply leaving a 1/4 plate gap is approaching the size of the nail groove on the bottom of tiles.

At any rate, your build is looking even better!

[Roadmonkeytj]

@legonerd54321 loving the progress 

11 hours ago, ALCO said:

This is a really nice locomotive!  I'd love to see this IRB.

X2

[ALCO]

@legonerd54321 just looking at your prototype and thinking the boiler might look too low. I wonder if you were to raise the boiler by a plate if that might help. Also, are you planning to have this handle r40 curves? If so you might want to check the clearance on the front wheel of your leading truck with the inside of your cylinders. 

[Vilhelm22]

I’ve been watching this for almost the entire time, though not commenting, and I can really see how much you’ve progressed.  This is an amazing MOC - congratulations!

[legonerd54321]

On 5/25/2020 at 11:14 PM, ALCO said:

@legonerd54321 just looking at your prototype and thinking the boiler might look too low. I wonder if you were to raise the boiler by a plate if that might help. Also, are you planning to have this handle r40 curves? If so you might want to check the clearance on the front wheel of your leading truck with the inside of your cylinders. 

I've raised the boiler about two plates whenever SteamSewn suggested it, and I'm planning on it handling r54 and above curves, as my other locomotive that I have won't be able r40 (Brick Train Depot's Big Boy).

On 5/26/2020 at 3:15 AM, Vilhelm22 said:

I’ve been watching this for almost the entire time, though not commenting, and I can really see how much you’ve progressed.  This is an amazing MOC - congratulations!

Thanks!

[BurkusCircus]

This is truly beautiful. Great job!

[steele]

I'd be interested in seeing more of the tender trucks----so many MOCs seem to just use the pre-made bogies under the tender, even when it's quite inaccurate.  (I'm trying to do trucks for a Daylight----I'm surprised I've never seen a three-axle Buckeye truck done by anyone AFAIK, when so many different things used them).  

Edited June 4, 2020 by steele