BuWizz Motor [Video Test]

[Sariel]

BuWizz has been so kind as to send me a prototype unit of a high-powered motor they're working on. As you can  see, the motor has the same form factor as the legendary LEGO RC buggy motor, except for the permanently attached PF cable. In my tests it proved between 4% and 13% faster than the LEGO RC buggy motor and accordingly more torque-y, and I was unable to trigger its overload protection to cut the power off (something that happens way too often with the LEGO motor). Full test:

 

[Homersapien]

Thump up for BuWizz!!!

[allanp]

Hey that's really cool. This might temp me to go to the BuWizz side! I don't know how much money they have invested into recreating the old buggy motors form factor, but that was the only thing I didn't really like about the old buggy motor. I wonder if the same internal motor would fit into an L-motor like casing, but with a similar internal gear ratio to the buggy motor (maybe only one stage of planetary gearing perhaps, or two stages with different sized sun and planet gears? I can't remember what the ratios actually are) because I think that would be more useful and easier to integrate into builds. 

Edited November 12, 2020 by allanp

[Zerobricks]

Just now, allanp said:

Hey that's really cool. This might temp me to go to the BuWizz side! Just a few things though. I don't know how much money they have invested into recreating the old buggy motors form factor, but that was the only thing I didn't really like about the old buggy motor. I wonder if the same internal motor would fit into an L-motor like casing, but with a similar internal gear ratio to the buggy motor (maybe only one stage of planetary gearing perhaps, or two stages with different sized sun and planet gears? I can't remember what the ratios actually are) because I think that would be more useful and easier to integrate into builds. Second question, has anyone definitively found out what the maximum current limit is on the new powered up hubs are, and if so would a buggy motor with a PU connector be feasible?

We chose this form factor, because:

- It's easy to attach wheels on directly

- The motors can be stacked on one axle

- Slim profile allows for very easy integration into the drive systems

- Motors have high output RPM - something cirent motors lack

- These motors are way more fficient because they don't use double planetary gear reductions

Also idea is to change the shape so it's more compatible, getting rid of the diagonals and such, which will take a bit longer, but the end motor will be easier to integrate into the studless system.

Gear ratios between outputs is 23:17.

Current limit in the hubs is around 800 mA, they ar protected bothy by polyfuses and firmware.

A buggy motor with a PU connector is possible ofc, but running it on the Lego hubs will not allow it to reach it's full potencial.

That is why we used the PF plugs, so the motor can be compatible with PF, PU and the old 9V system

[kbalage]

Thanks for the sneak peek, I hope we can see soon how they behave in a build with load. For me so far the limitation was not really the motor itself but the power source, so it'll be interesting to see if they work better with the BuWizz units than the old version. @Zerobricks did you maybe do some tests already? Is it still limited to one motor per BuWizz unit at full load in high/ludicrous mode?

[allanp]

@Zerobricks Ok, thanks for the clear answers, and to both you and @Sariel for the sneak peak . 

Yeah, the diagonals as you put it, is that the relationship between the mounting holes and output locations? If so do you plan to have mounting holes aligned to both outputs? Also, is the half stud offset something that you think is worth changing? I mean, that section of the motor is two studs wide but the mounting holes are only 1 stud wide, creating that half stud offset. Yes it's easy enough to work around, and it might not be worth it to change, but was wondering what your thoughts were. Having the mounting holes be 2 studs wide with a middle slot (like the engine block or double ended pin connector) would make for easier integration IMHO. 

Edited November 12, 2020 by allanp

[Zerobricks]

7 minutes ago, allanp said:

@Zerobricks Ok, thanks for the clear answers, and to both you and @Sariel for the sneak peak . 

Yeah, the diagonals as you put it, is that the relationship between the mounting holes and output locations? If so do you plan to have mounting holes aligned to both outputs? Also, is the half stud offset something that you think is worth changing? I mean, that section of the motor is two studs wide but the mounting holes are only 1 stud wide, creating that half stud offset. Yes it's easy enough to work around, and it might not be worth it to change, but was wondering what your thoughts were. Having the mounting holes be 2 studs wide with a middle slot (like the engine block or double ended pin connector) would make for easier integration IMHO. 

We want our motor to also be backwards compatible, that's why we didn't change the mounting hole positions. This way you can install them in all the current and past MOCs.

 

12 minutes ago, kbalage said:

Thanks for the sneak peek, I hope we can see soon how they behave in a build with load. For me so far the limitation was not really the motor itself but the power source, so it'll be interesting to see if they work better with the BuWizz units than the old version. @Zerobricks did you maybe do some tests already? Is it still limited to one motor per BuWizz unit at full load in high/ludicrous mode?

Yes, there is still such a limit for BuWizz 2.0. But we plan to support 2 motors at once on the 3.0

[kbalage]

2 minutes ago, Zerobricks said:

Yes, there is still such a limit for BuWizz 2.0. But we plan to support 2 motors at once on the 3.0

Can't wait for that ;) 

[allanp]

@Zerobricks well that does make sense. Besides these motors will most likely be bought by enthusiasts who won't have any problems working with the current form factor. But thanks for the replies to my thinking out loud comments  pretty sure I'll be getting some regardless.

[astyanax]

23 hours ago, Zerobricks said:

Also idea is to change the shape so it's more compatible, getting rid of the diagonals and such, which will take a bit longer, but the end motor will be easier to integrate into the studless system.

What's always bothered me is that the "ridge" between the front and rear attachment points is too tall, so you cannot place a beam or frame between them, like so:

 

Do you plan to adapt the shape here?

Edited November 13, 2020 by astyanax
typo

[Zerobricks]

That's the plan, get rid of the ridge and diagonals.

[2GodBDGlory]

Is there any information on pricing for these motors available yet?

[allanp]

15 hours ago, Zerobricks said:

That's the plan, get rid of the ridge and diagonals.

Oh you meant those diagonals 

[amorti]

16 hours ago, astyanax said:

What's always bothered me is that the "ridge" between the front and rear attachment points is too tall, so you cannot place a beam of frame between them, like so:

 

Do you plan to adapt the shape here?

Does that help much? It leaves you with a half stud gap which you can't really bridge.

Genuine question, I've never built with buggy motors.

[astyanax]

1 hour ago, amorti said:

Does that help much? It leaves you with a half stud gap which you can't really bridge.

Genuine question, I've never built with buggy motors.

One could go sideways...

[amorti]

2 hours ago, astyanax said:

 One could go sideways...

Nice thinking.

@Zerobricks@Sariel It's a nice video, but I think the comparison that would be more relevant is between Buwizz motors and Chinese copies.

If people want to buy a buggy motor these days, even the die-hardest Lego fans baulk at 50€+ per piece for a (potentially very) used Lego motor or 100€+ per piece for a new one, with many opting for the cheaper option of Chinese "Monster Motors" at more like 10€ - 15€ per piece brand new.

I know Buwizz motors won't cost 15€. So, in what way are Buwizz motors better than that cheaper option? Are they more powerful, faster, more reliable?

Let's not beat around the bush... the casings, cable clamp, etc. look remarkably similar to these very cheap motors. You'd have to convince a lot of buyers they're not identical inside, or you're asking us to spend more for the Buwizz sticker ;)

Edited November 13, 2020 by amorti

[Zerobricks]

4 minutes ago, amorti said:

Nice thinking.

@Zerobricks

I think the comparison that would be more relevant is between Buwizz motors and Chinese copies.

If people want to buy a buggy motor these days, even the die-hardest Lego fans baulk at 50€+ per piece for a (potentially very) used Lego motor or 100€+ per piece for a new one, with many opting for the cheaper option of Chinese "Monster Motors" at more like 10€ - 15€ per piece brand new.

In what way are Buwizz motors better than that cheaper option? Are they more powerful, faster, more reliable?

Let's not beat around the bush... the casings look remarkably similar to those cheap motors. Without knowing if they're identical inside, you'd have to convince a lot of buyers to spend more for the Buwizz sticker ;)

if you have read my replies, you would see that this was just a test sample and that we will redisign the housing.

Again advantages are:

- higher current compared to either solution

- higher RPM comapred to either solution

- higher power compared to either solution

- changed housing which will be easier to integrate into studless system but still backwards compatible

[Sariel]

12 minutes ago, amorti said:

It's a nice video, but I think the comparison that would be more relevant is between Buwizz motors and Chinese copies.

Sorry, I don't spend my days browsing shady Chinese online shops of stolen designs so up until yesterday I had no idea Chinese copies of these motors even existed.

[amorti]

30 minutes ago, Sariel said:

 Sorry, I don't spend my days browsing shady Chinese online shops of stolen designs so up until yesterday I had no idea Chinese copies of these motors even existed.

You've heard of eBay though, right?

36 minutes ago, Zerobricks said:

if you have read my replies, you would see that this was just a test sample and that we will redesign the housing.

 Again advantages are:

 - higher current compared to either solution

 - higher RPM compared to either solution

 - higher power compared to either solution

 - changed housing which will be easier to integrate into studless system but still backwards compatible

Cool, then it's not just what it looks like ;)

Humbly I submit that presenting a prototype that seems to be in the same casing as a very cheap competitor might be a faux pas.

Just to be clear I have no issue spending money on good stuff - I have 2x buwizz and some half dozen Chinese battery blocks in my collection.

In theory they're the same; 2.4Ghz remote control LiPo units with 4x PF-compatible plugs, designed to power block toys. But in fact the buwizz are far superior - they have analogue control, they work with BrickController2, the actual batteries are better quality and I've yet to have one fail. Even with the differences, there are also plenty of cases where "good enough" is indeed good enough.

The buwizz motor just has to deliver some similar level of "better" to make it a genuine premium product. Although it's hard for me to quantify what performance gains could be offered, I think a lot will be on how well you guys warranty the product.

 

Edited November 13, 2020 by amorti

[Sariel]

14 minutes ago, amorti said:

You've heard of eBay though, right?

I don't go to eBay looking for Chinese counterfeit c**p either, which is perhaps why I haven't found it there.

[amorti]

1 hour ago, Sariel said:

 I don't go to eBay looking for Chinese counterfeit c**p either, which is perhaps why I haven't found it there.

There's not as much difference between Buwizz releasing an updated Buggy motor and the above-mentioned Chinese buggy motors as you'd like to think.

Especially when it seems apparent by the identical casing, that the Buwizz motor is coming from the same factory as the Chinese copy.

Doesn't mean they're identical products. Certainly it's possible buwizz would spec higher quality internals and zero has already stated the case will be different.

But, it does leave your moral outrage on shaky footing if buying a buwizz lego-compatible product supports the same factory as buying a Chinese Lego-compatible product.

Edited November 13, 2020 by amorti

[amorti]

Wonder if it's coincidence that buwizz has the top comment on this video. 

Edited November 13, 2020 by amorti

[Sariel]

6 hours ago, amorti said:

But, it does leave your moral outrage on shaky footing if buying a buwizz lego-compatible product supports the same factory as buying a Chinese Lego-compatible product.

As I have already explained, up to the point of publishing my video I've never come across these Chinese-made motors. Forgive me for not being so up-to-date with what the Chinese are copying at the moment as you gentlemen clearly are. It's certainly possible that for the purpose of making the prototype quickly and cheaply, a Chinese-made casing was used. BuWizz team clearly stated that they are going to use a different casing for the finished products.

Edited November 13, 2020 by Sariel

[nicjasno]

I am following this development with great interest.  My future plans do include a supercar with 6 or 8 of these. And the Sierra might be also suitable for a stack of 3 or 4 to make it drift.

[roeleman]

What will be the maximum voltage that can drive them? 3S lipo?