LEGO Sci-Fi Ongoing - Rumors, Speculation, and Discussion

[SpacePolice89]

14 minutes ago, danth said:

Hey that's mine! Thanks!

Comparing my MOC with the official remake, wow, they are just totally different takes. My left-side sensor is a fairly sleek, more gun-like design, while the official remake is just a chonky block.

I think my forward protrusions are "industrial" enough but are not meant to look "heavy" or strong because the original structure was so spindly and fragile. But my landing gear suck and they're totally tacked on. I appreciate that the remake bulked up the protrusions to integrate landing gear.

Your MOC is really fantastic! Maybe you can make something similar with the pieces from the new renegade?

Edited December 18, 2024 by SpacePolice89

[Lyichir]

24 minutes ago, SpacePolice89 said:

Maybe it's better during the night? Or is everybody waiting?

Nah, midnight releases on the Lego site can be extremely frustrating due to the heavy web traffic limiting access to the site—especially for a release date like January first, which is not just the first date to get this set but also many others from many other themes.

If you have a Lego store within driving distance it can sometimes be less frustrating to go there in person the next day, that way you can both get a good night's sleep and get the set even sooner overall than if you'd had to have it shipped to you.

[jodawill]

Does anyone else think this is better than the Galaxy Explorer?

[Lyichir]

1 minute ago, jodawill said:

Does anyone else think this is better than the Galaxy Explorer?

Not me, but that probably owes more to the source material than anything else (it's just inherently easier to adapt a simple ship with a big central cockpit, especially if you're scaling it up to add detail). I do like it though.

[Swordy]

I feel very disappointed about the set.

No matter how rough the original sets were (they were produced in the 80s, of course they look unpolished), Blacktron has always spoken to me as cool, sleek, black. That mostly comes from the minimalist, all-black design of the original Minifigures. It’s stealthy; it’s cobbled-together maybe, but not unpolished.

Regardless of any of that, I feel that this set wasn’t given as much love as the Galaxy Explorer, a set which, seemingly, was entirely born out of the designers’ love for Classic Space. (Space lost the 90th anniversary vote, yet we got the GE alongside Lion Knight’s Castle.) The Renegade, on the other hand, looks unrefined; a first draft. It comes down to the amount of visible studs, the overwhelming amount of yellow (which doesn’t even align with the original model’s colourway), and the very basic build of the structure. Compare all of that to GE, which not only perfectly replicate the original, but did so with much more sophisticated design. A couple black tiles and slopes, and a few SNOT techniques, would’ve gone a long way, in my opinion.

The build looks better when displayed like it is on the back of the box, and that alone is convincing me to not skip the set for the issues I have. (There’s several MOCs online that do a better job at capturing Blacktron, in my oh-so-humble opinion.) I do terribly miss the retro box art, though.

$100 feels fine. It looks comparable in size to GE, but missing the fourth minifigure and lacking the display value of the 2022 model. If I can grab it at $90 and a couple black tiles and plates to swap out some of the obnoxious yellow, then I’ll be a happy camper.

It is exciting that Blacktron is back on shelves (in my life time, no less)!

 

What’s more exciting, though, is that soon I’ll be able to army build Blacktron on PaB. Clone Armies can go take a hike; I need a couple hundred of the coolest looking baddies this side of the Federation lines.

[Stereo]

Use of yellow seems off to me, so I looked closer and I think the difference is, the original never has any yellow elements wider than 1 plate thickness on the main body (though some of that is 2x2 tiles with black printed lines, which seem to have turned into yellow grille tiles... fine). The new one brings it up to 2 studs width in some spots.  And it just kinda changes it from 95% black 5% yellow to 70-30 in some spots.

I wonder how hard it'll be to add in Technic pinholes on the octagonal connection points, so City Space modules can be stolen and attached to it.

Edited December 18, 2024 by Stereo

[danth]

1 hour ago, Lyichir said:

I feel like it's more than just those aspects of the Renegade that give the theme that feel—the narrow legs of the Alienator, the rugged off-road suspension of the Battrax, and the large open hangar of the Message Intercept Base also have an industrial feel to them in my opinion. Combined with the yellow and black color scheme and symbols that evoke warning or hazard signage, a lot of Blacktron I's design language feels very function-over-form (at least from the perspective of a 90s space fan who was more used to sleeker, more shapely designs).

I'm of the opinion that all Lego Space was like that. The legs of Walking Astro Grappler, the wings on the Space Dart, the open catwalks of the Intergalactic Command Base. Et cetera.

I guess my point is, I reject the argument that "The original Blacktron was the blockiest and most industrial theme to ever exist, so the remake has to look ugly". I know I know, nobody is saying that...except they kinda are. Implying it anyway. I would have preferred a sleeker, sexier take, but it's fine if others don't.

Actually, that's a good way of putting it. I wanted sleeker and sexier. The way 10497 was sleek and sexy. I would even go so far to say that 18+ Icons sets should be sleek and sexy. This looks more like a 7+ set from an action theme.

But hey. No stickers, great prints, and a new trans-yellow windscreen. Those are all major wins.

I forget who it was, but I wonder if the guy who complained about the new Galaxy Explorer being too sleek and fightery likes this Renegade remake.

Edited December 18, 2024 by danth

[danth]

41 minutes ago, Swordy said:

The Renegade, on the other hand, looks unrefined; a first draft. It comes down to the amount of visible studs, the overwhelming amount of yellow (which doesn’t even align with the original model’s colourway), and the very basic build of the structure. Compare all of that to GE, which not only perfectly replicate the original, but did so with much more sophisticated design. A couple black tiles and slopes, and a few SNOT techniques, would’ve gone a long way, in my opinion.

Pretty much how I feel.

37 minutes ago, Stereo said:

Use of yellow seems off to me, so I looked closer and I think the difference is, the original never has any yellow elements wider than 1 plate thickness on the main body (though some of that is 2x2 tiles with black printed lines, which seem to have turned into yellow grille tiles... fine). The new one brings it up to 2 studs width in some spots.  And it just kinda changes it from 95% black 5% yellow to 70-30 in some spots.

Glad I'm not the only one noticing.

[SpacePolice89]

1 hour ago, jodawill said:

Does anyone else think this is better than the Galaxy Explorer?

I think that they are equally good. I like both very much and I really appreciate the way they have brought back Space sets with original minifigs and colors that are the same as the original sets. The new sets can easily be placed next to the old ones without looking out of place.

1 hour ago, Swordy said:

The Renegade, on the other hand, looks unrefined; a first draft. It comes down to the amount of visible studs, the overwhelming amount of yellow (which doesn’t even align with the original model’s colourway), and the very basic build of the structure. Compare all of that to GE, which not only perfectly replicate the original, but did so with much more sophisticated design. A couple black tiles and slopes, and a few SNOT techniques, would’ve gone a long way, in my opinion.

I think Lego should have visible studs, especially retro sets. Without the studs the sets would look like any other toy.

[jodawill]

I don't get the complaint about visible studs. This is Lego. There's supposed to be studs.

[Swordy]

30 minutes ago, SpacePolice89 said:

I think Lego should have visible studs, especially retro sets. Without the studs the sets would look like any other toy.

I believe you and I may have a fundamental disagreement. I see LEGO as a way of modeling, overcoming its blocky limitations through willpower and imagination. I choose LEGO because of its ability to be rebuilt. The models which have impressed me the most are those whose designers challenge my perception of what I can build, and excite me for what I can create on my own.

LEGO sets will always have visible studs; that’s a given due to the medium of the brick. That doesn’t necessitate an overwhelming amount of studs, though, and such studage which isn’t done artfully. I believe this is the case with the Renegade.

As for the case of retro sets as a whole, LEGO has evolved so much since those sets hit shelves; thus, I believe these retro remakes (for they are remakes, not reproductions) should reflect that fact. If someone wants a retro look, then he could easily buy an older set, or swap out the tiles for plates.
 

26 minutes ago, jodawill said:

I don't get the complaint about visible studs. This is Lego. There's supposed to be studs.

I’ll clarify my stance: it’s not the fact there are visible studs with which I take issue; rather, it’s the amount of unnecessary studs. (Galaxy Explorer strikes a better balance, I feel.) I believe more care could’ve and should’ve been taken for an 18+ model in 2025, that’s all.

 

To be clear, I don’t seek absolute, studless perfection. I also don’t want to see LEGO regress without calling it out.

Edited December 18, 2024 by Swordy

[Lyichir]

1 hour ago, Stereo said:

Use of yellow seems off to me, so I looked closer and I think the difference is, the original never has any yellow elements wider than 1 plate thickness on the main body (though some of that is 2x2 tiles with black printed lines, which seem to have turned into yellow grille tiles... fine). The new one brings it up to 2 studs width in some spots.  And it just kinda changes it from 95% black 5% yellow to 70-30 in some spots.

On the one hand that is certainly a change, but personally I kind of prefer the expanded use of yellow. One issue with classic Blacktron sets is that black-on-black is not the most photogenic color scheme—unless you take special care to light it a lot of depth and detail can get visually lost. Breaking it up more with yellow allows more of the shaping of this set to stand out. I particularly like the use of yellow around the edge of the windscreen, which makes it look like it's practically glowing.

5 minutes ago, Swordy said:

I believe you and I may have a fundamental disagreement. I see LEGO as a way of modeling, overcoming its blocky limitations through willpower and imagination. I choose LEGO because of its ability to be rebuilt. The models which have impressed me the most are those whose designers challenge my perception of what I can build, and excite me for what I can create on my own.

LEGO sets will always have visible studs; that’s a given due to the medium of the brick. That doesn’t necessitate an overwhelming amount of studs, though, and such studage which isn’t done artfully. I believe this is the case with the Renegade.

As for the case of retro sets as a whole, LEGO has evolved so much since those sets hit shelves; thus, I believe these retro remakes (for they are remakes, not reproductions) should reflect that fact. If someone wants a retro look, then he could easily buy an older set, or swap out the tiles for plates.
 

I’ll clarify my stance: it’s not the fact there are visible studs with which I take issue; rather, it’s the amount of unnecessary studs. (Galaxy Explorer strikes a better balance, I feel.) I believe more care could’ve and should’ve been taken for an 18+ model in 2025, that’s all.

Personally I feel like the use of studs in this set is effective, especially since there are also tiled sections. Using texture variation like that between the smooth raised sections and connections between the hubs and the studded surface used for the lowered sections along the central struts and on the wings helps the black parts of the build not look quite as uniform as they would if they'd covered up as many of the studs as possible. Plus it creates spaces for minifigures to stand atop the ship when it's grounded, so that they can more easily service or repair the vessel.

Edited December 18, 2024 by Lyichir

[danth]

2 minutes ago, Swordy said:

I’ll clarify my stance: it’s not the fact there are visible studs with which I take issue; rather, it’s the amount of unnecessary studs.

Don't worry, you said the amount of visual studs originally. The responses are ignoring that.

30 minutes ago, jodawill said:

I don't get the complaint about visible studs. This is Lego. There's supposed to be studs.

I think the studs on the new Galaxy Explorer look good. I think the studs on the new Renegade look bad. It's about distribution and balance.

[jodawill]

7 minutes ago, danth said:

Don't worry, you said the amount of visual studs originally. The responses are ignoring that.

I think the studs on the new Galaxy Explorer look good. I think the studs on the new Renegade look bad. It's about distribution and balance.

I'm not ignoring it. I just don't see why the number of studs would be off putting. It's a matter of preference, of course, but my personal preference is to not even consider stud placement at all when building. Let the studs fall where they will.

I suppose there would be some exceptions even for me. The Lightyear ship would look really weird if those rounded engines were covered in studs facing random directions. But for me, that's the exception. Studs on top are always welcome to me.

[Stereo]

29 minutes ago, Lyichir said:

On the one hand that is certainly a change, but personally I kind of prefer the expanded use of yellow. One issue with classic Blacktron sets is that black-on-black is not the most photogenic color scheme—unless you take special care to light it a lot of depth and detail can get visually lost. Breaking it up more with yellow allows more of the shaping of this set to stand out. I particularly like the use of yellow around the edge of the windscreen, which makes it look like it's practically glowing.

Yeah, with the much higher part count it's probably also important for the build experience that there's not too much "bag of small black pieces", I'm just thinking about the changes they made.  Personally my 'big sets I admired from a distance' era starts with Blacktron II and Space Police so I probably have to wait 3-4 more years to get an Icon that I feel strongly about.  This one I'm going to wait until I hear how interesting it is to build before I decide.  I wasn't really into the non-fluorescent Blacktron II/Ice Planet cmfs so I'm not actually optimistic though.

Edited December 18, 2024 by Stereo

[danth]

45 minutes ago, Lyichir said:

Personally I feel like the use of studs in this set is effective, especially since there are also tiled sections. Using texture variation like that between the smooth raised sections and connections between the hubs and the studded surface used for the lowered sections along the central struts and on the wings helps the black parts of the build not look quite as uniform as they would if they'd covered up as many of the studs as possible.

I just realized. I think tiles on the edges with studs in the middle, like on the wings of 10497, look nice and polished.

But studs on the edges with tiles in the middle, like on the new Renegade, look messy and ugly.

[RichardGoring]

2 hours ago, jodawill said:

Does anyone else think this is better than the Galaxy Explorer?

No, but that doesn't mean it's bad. I do wonder whether we've had a peak around 2022 in the current LEGO era.

Galaxy Explorer followed by the new Renegade

Lion Knight's Castle followed by Medieval Town Square

Rivendell followed by Barad Dur

Titanic followed by Endurance

All of the newer sets are fine in their own right, but not as good as their predecessors in comparison. Another thing about those comparisons is, I think, all of the 2022-ish sets were designed by teams of people, but the newer ones by a single person, and maybe that collaboration helps? Also, Mike Psiaki was involved in all of the earlier ones, but not in the current sets?

2 hours ago, danth said:

Actually, that's a good way of putting it. I wanted sleeker and sexier. The way 10497 was sleek and sexy. I would even go so far to say that 18+ Icons sets should be sleek and sexy. This looks more like a 7+ set from an action theme.

Yes, I think that's a good way of expressing it. it's a good 7+ action theme set. Maybe not as good as an 18+ Icons set.

 

The increased use of yellow doesn't bother me though. I think it's proportional to the original enough. When you are doing things in the LEGO system and want to scale something up, going from one stud wide to two studs wide is as good as you can get. I think it looks balanced as-is, but I can see the argument from the other side too.

[jodawill]

It will be interesting to see the New Elementary article on this. That black wedge hasn't appeared since the Armada Flagship. (The green window frame from that set was also recently rereleased.)

My only disappointment with this set is that I was really hoping for them to bring back trans yellow hoses and printed slopes. My hope for the hoses obviously dwindled when I saw it was going to be the Renegade. But it would have been nice to have a decorated slope, especially if it was the same as the crappy sticker in the last Blacktron set. But the set itself is otherwise better than I was hoping for. I'm very glad this isn't yet another shelf warmer.

[danth]

1 minute ago, RichardGoring said:

Mike Psiaki

They need to triple that guy's salary and make him head designer for all of Lego, or at least for all System sets.

[Black Falcon]

Honestly, on the first look I was kinda disappointed with the Set, but the more I´ve seen of it the better I like it. I don´t think that the amount of visible studs is actually much more than with the Galaxy Explorer, just the distribution is different, while the Galaxy Explorer actually has a lot of them, the sleek fringe helps a lot that it doesn´t catch the eye so much - while the renegade has them more on the substructure, while the superstructure is mostly sleek. There are one or two spots where a little detail or something would have been good, but tiling those places out would have just increased the price of the Set without changing much for the set to me.

However there are two parts I am not really sold to, one is the plate with the Blacktron Logo, since you can easily see there is some hollow space underneath it and the second one is the other side you could switch with the cockpit - no idea what that is supposed to be and it just doesn´t look good to me. The two small jets are a fun idea, but not sure if I like them or not. Kinda remind me on the small vehicles they used to do in the past.

Is the Renegade better than the Galaxy Explorer? No. Is it worse? I woudln´t say so either, but for sure it is different, and the Galaxy Explorer was surely the easier overall Design to do, than the oddly shaped Renegade. 

 

 

[Lyichir]

34 minutes ago, danth said:

They need to triple that guy's salary and make him head designer for all of Lego, or at least for all System sets.

A thing about "head designers" is that being in charge of other designers' sets means less hands-on time to work on their own. This isn't always a bad thing, since after all senior designers like Jamie Berard can help foster the talents of the next generation of designers. But I do wish typical discussion of Lego designers was less focused on a select few "greats" as if their talent was unparalleled and more appreciative of the personal, individual touches all Lego designers bring to their projects. Mike Psiaki does great spaceships and cars but I don't know if he'd be as good at mechs as Niek Van Slagmaat, or as great at buildings and dollhouses as Wes Talbott, or as good at Creator animals as Aaron Newman. And it's not uncommon for me to see a new set that impresses me only to find that it's from some up-and-coming designer I'd never followed before.

[icm]

I like it. That brings to four the list of fairly sizable spaceships I need to pick up next year: the City spaceship, the Technic spaceship, the new Renegade, and the Skeleton Crew ship - plus the ARC-170, but that's a starfighter and not a transport. (We'll see about the U-wing and anything else that may come up later in the year.) I like the amount of visible studs, the amount of visible yellow, the use of the girders in the central frame, the retractable landing gear, and the cluster of sensors in front of the windscreen. However, I think the designer should have kept the asymmetric lengths of the beams on either side of the frame, and I think it was a mistake to have a single large rover instead of a rover inside a storage container, because that reduces the modularity and play opportunities. I hope they continue to make these remakes of classic Space, Castle, and Pirates sets as long as they're good, not clearly half-hearted like the GWP Majisto set.

[Lyichir]

One thing I saw someone mention on Brickset is that since the connections on the front and back seem to be the same, and the center section is symmetrical unlike the original, you could theoretically chain together multiples of the central section to make a loooooooong Renegade. I'm not sure whether that was the reason they opted to make the two central struts the same length—probably not—but it is pretty funny to imagine.

[Aanchir]

Really impressed with this redesign! It definitely takes more liberties from the original with regard to color blocking and such than the Galaxy Explorer did, but the end result is very effective IMO. And also like that set, it makes some nice improvements on the original in terms of playability/functionality, such as adding detachable energy cells, retractable landing gear, and a "dropship" function. One small but significant change I greatly appreciate is having one universal coupling design between modules, instead of some modules only having "male" pins or "female" pin holes. This expands the customization potential quite a bit: for example, if you wanted, you could flip the body front-to-back, attaching the cockpit and sensor/comms array to what's normally the "back" and the engines to what's normally the "front" — something that the original design didn't allow without modding.

The decision to replace the cargo bay containing a small rover with a larger rover that can be dropped directly to the surface definitely adds to the playability IMO (and helps the rover build stand out more from the one that came with the Galaxy Explorer). But I think it's a bit of a missed opportunity not to give the rover itself modular connections like those on the spaceship — especially since in the original build, the cargo bay was yet another modular unit that could be attached to the body, cockpit, and/or engines. It's also a shame not to have any hoses along the body, since those were a detail from the original that was quite distinctive (and I suspect, very exciting for kids of the generation that got to experience Blacktron when it first came out). Moreover, fuel lines or cables like that are the sort of detail that could've complemented the new energy cells really nicely!

 

I am not nearly as impressed with the Alienator/Strider alt build as with the main build. I certainly respect the effort to give this set at least one alt build, since that was a super impressive bonus feature of the Galaxy Explorer, but the leg supports feel awkward to me, and the use of arch bricks in particular makes it feel almost a little too obvious that the design is making do with parts selected with an entirely different type of model in mind. They seem flimsy and decorative, rather than sturdy and utilitarian like the trusses, lattices, and solid armor plating that makes up the rest of the build.

Also, compared to the Galaxy Explorer alt builds, which all felt nearly as faithful to their predecessors as the main build did, this revamp takes a lot more liberties (particularly due to keeping the beefy cockpit and engine modules the same as in the main build). It's possible that the legs might look better from a different camera angle, though, and I appreciate that the very classic function has been maintained! I also quite like the service mech built with some of the leftover parts, despite it not being based on any existing Blacktron set. And who knows? Maybe I can take this opportunity to try and MOC an upscaled Alienator/Strider that's more to my tastes, using some of the features of this one that I do like as a starting point.

Edited December 19, 2024 by Aanchir

[Lord Insanity]

This looks like a fantastic modern re-imagining of the worst Blacktron set.  It certainly looks like a wonderful parts pack.  Unfortunately on the main build the color balance is all wrong.  It is supposed to have a yellow stripe with a few yellow accents.  The large yellow color "blocking" on parts of the ship throws off the whole Blacktron aesthetic.  The solid yellow immediately around the trans yellow cockpit is by far the worst offender.  The trans yellow needs to be up against black with the solid yellow stripe away from the trans yellow.

Despite the color scheme the overall build is very good.  The only major critique I have there is the main body of the ship is missing.  The rover "dropship" function is very good but why isn't the top covered?  It just looks incomplete.  That missing section then causes the re-imagined Alienator to also be missing it's main body above it's legs.

Maybe my preference for Space ships having large interiors is to blame here.  To me a re-imagined Renegade should have had "corridors" connecting the command section on the starboard side and the science lab on the port side to the cargo bay and engineering section in the back.  I'll probably buy several copies of the set just to support the printed parts and overall selection of "parts in the right color" for what I want to build.  Overall it is a massive win on that point.