Swapping Lego motors 50X power?

[Aerolight]

I know that people have tried this a few times before (with some success). And out of all the methods the only only I considered was a straight swap (same size higher quality motor) but I struggled to find any aside from some used in mini 4w4. 

Then some time ago someone suggested to use aftermarket foam dart gun motors, though I think most discounted this as they are 130 size motors which are used in the m motors, I mean how powerful can they really be... 

Well after checking the ratings of these motors I was amazed to find that their max peak output is FIFTY WATTS that's approx. FIFTY times what a m motor puts out and 20-30 times a xl motor WOW.

Now before u go and buy out all the stock to build a plane, they put out their peak power at 15 Amps and IR receives max out at about 1 amp, so their actual power on Lego electronics would be conservatively an xl motor (2 watts) (due to efficiency losses but could be more like 2 xl motors but I don't have the curves for the motors to check this) Although those with a BUWIZZ could expect to see around 10-15 watts (5-7 times an xl motor).

In concussion, maybe, but to get the full 50 times power you would have to home make a full power system (easy but illegal rip) and I doubt that the m motors planetary gears could take it. On the topic of said gears I don't know how much faster the output would spin (if impractical to reduce). And remember it is often easy to fit 2 m motors than it is to fit 1 xl motor (btw the same motor is used in the m powered up motor). I will probably order one just for the fun of it, <£10, shipping will take a month or two tho .

 

[Maaboo the Witch]

7 minutes ago, Aerolight said:

In concussion, maybe

If injuries are guaranteed, I'd rather not...

[FoxOne]

@Aerolight Do you have a link to the datasheet?

I wonder if it will trigger a current protection immediately, due to reduction gear's resistance only.

Please share the results!

[Sadap]

If you can solder, you can make a H-Bridge out of four discrete MOSFETs. That would eliminate the power issue.

[roeleman]

Yes, do you have a datasheet?  

I dismantled a buggy motor to check the motor and if it could be swapped with a 12V rated motor.  In the buggy it seems to be a 260 motor, but I don't find these motors with a proper datasheet where voltage, amps, rpm and torque are specified.

With the 130 motors, there seems to be more documentation.

[Aerolight]

Small update, 

The motors have arrived (neodymium magnets go clonk and real ball bearings go burrr) and my Buwizz 3.0 should come in a week or two. 

The Buwizz 3.0 is more powerful than I thought and with these motors ,according to the data sheets of the two, an sustained output of  25 watts and a peak of over 30 whatts! from a single m size motor.

For perspective a original rc motor at 10.5v (Buwizz ludicrous mode is 11.2) gets only 6.1 watts of power output, and a stock m motor on standard Lego electronics only puts out just over 1 watt, 25 times power is realistic!!!!

All that's left is to solder the new motors in and wait for the Buwizz, although I do hope swapping the main shaft gear from the original m motor to the new will be as easy as prying it off and a bit of lock tight. (could always bypass the planetary gears altogether I guess)

I have already got the parts to build something rather special so I hope it works...

 

[Toastie]

10 hours ago, Aerolight said:

For perspective a original rc motor at 10.5v (Buwizz ludicrous mode is 11.2) gets only 6.1 watts of power output, and a stock m motor on standard Lego electronics only puts out just over 1 watt, 25 times power is realistic!!!!

What gets me always in trouble in these discussions: You can ramp up the voltage to levels you see fit - but when we are talking about wattage it is always (at least) voltage x current. And the current is not supplied by the controller but the "battery". Regardless of type. Then of course comes the max. current provided by the motor drivers. When these are capable of delivering unlimited amounts of current, you still need a power source to sustain that current (at a voltage that adjusts).

So what are your wattage numbers based on? What is your power source? I am just curious!

Best
Thorsten 

Edited April 10, 2021 by Toastie

[Aerolight]

 

The 25 watts of (theoretical) output come from:

The motor manufactures data of; max efficiency (69 percent) 8.4v at 4.5amps is 24 watts of mechanical output, max power 8.4v at 15 amps is 48 watts of mechanical output. 

Buwizz 3.0 has a sustained output of 4 amps at 11.2 volts (20 watts would be conservative given the given pervious ratings) and a peak output of 6 amps at 11.2 volts (25+ watts of peak power I would guess)

Buwizz 3.0 is a monster (from their website) each power functions channel has a continuous electrical power output of 48 watts (peak 60) while the total output for 1 brick is rated at over 100watts

 

[Aerolight]

Finally installed the new motors, the thing you notice most is the 5 kilos of force required to separate the motors from each other when aliened . 

The installation was easy only requiring a little cutting due to different terminal position.

But I still don't have a buwizz and the Lego rechargeable brick does not have enough power to even start 1 lol though It does become easier to start by hand (the problem with powerful magnets)