Powered Up Hub not working at all

[MusicaRibelle]

Hello everybody,

After thinking about it for a couple of months, I've decided to invest in the new PoweredUp tech and bought Hub and L-motor for my Crocodile locomotive.<
So far the process of using the new tech has been.. terrible.
The hub, when turned on, shows a blinking pink light (firmware update needed).

The app finds the hub (from the app, I choose the Croc, shows the interface to run the train, and the BLE icon shows a few colors) - I suppose it starts the download of the firmware: it shows full screen a picture of the Hub with  a big 0% - I suppose that it is meant to show progress and go to 100%.. except it doesn't. It stays at 0% for a few seconds, then it shows a list of connected hubs. The list has only one element "Lego bootloader", the app is frozen, the hub is "off", meaning it shows no light, and pressing its green button does nothing.

The only way out is to restart the app, restart the hub (open and close the lid, disconnecting power).

Nothing changed after repeated attempts, I tried on two different smartphones, one Android, one Apple, in case it was a phone problem - it isn't.

I don't know what to do.
Calling Lego is an option, but their traffic volume is high, I am not expected to speak to any human for hours...

Any useful suggestion?

 

[Lok24]

Hi,

yes, I think that's normal (but not ok, of course).
The Bootloader doesn't expect a L-Motor.....

Do the following:

remove batteries (the hub is still on, LED is dark)!
disconnect all motors or sensors
put in batteries
hub should be turned "off"
then press green button 10 sec till led is  blinking pink(bootloader), hold button pressed

start App, process is starting, approx. 1,5 min, LED on Hub changes red, green, blue
(you can now release the green button)
reconnect motor
try app

 

Edited November 30, 2020 by Lok24

[MusicaRibelle]

OMG, it worked! Thank you so much!

But.... why didn't they explain that anywhere?? There are no instructions in the hub packaging, no FAQ about this in the app or on lego.com - I looked through their troubleshooting info several times.

I always think computer-like electronics should behave like a personal computer, but they don't (to flash / upgrade firmware, I don't need to disconnect phisically all peripherals..). 

I feel a bit like an idiot, but I'm glad I got it to work 

 

[Lok24]

Thanks for your response.

Well, the problem is:
The bootloader is seperated from the firmware, which is fine as you can never destroy it.

But when the hub was released there was no L-Motor yet....
And know you can't correct this error, because the FW does not include the bootloader.

About the information from LEGO: I agree to all your points.

[JopieK]

1 hour ago, Lok24 said:

Thanks for your response.

Well, the problem is:
The bootloader is seperated from the firmware, which is fine as you can never destroy it.

But when the hub was released there was no L-Motor yet....
 And know you can't correct this error, because the FW does not include the bootloader.

About the information from LEGO: I agree to all your points.

That still would be a design flaw, the HUB should not look at any peripherals when (trying) to update. But... embedded systems design is not trivial at all (I teach undergraduate embedded systems courses and still find a lot quite challenging myself after having a bachelor in software engineering and master in computer science education).

[MusicaRibelle]

Yes, thanks again for the insightful answers.

I've worked my entire career in computer science, but always a layer above any OS, embedded or not, so I never really considered those design challenges. 

I suppose that the process works fine is there's a train motor connected to the hub, since there are no warnings or instructions for the train sets either, and those were the first application of the new Pup system. 

Anyways, the Croc runs fine, still a bit tight on curves when towing other cars, but it's nice. I am not in a hurry to convert the rest of my stock, though.

 Lego Crocodile freight train (sm) by Federico, on Flickr

 

[Toastie]

On 11/30/2020 at 8:09 PM, JopieK said:

(I teach undergraduate embedded systems courses and still find a lot quite challenging myself after having a bachelor in software engineering and master in computer science education)

Bugs don't care about degrees - learned that the very hard way as well.

And yes: This is a (major) design flaw. 

@Lok24 thanks a lot for that information!

Best
Thorsten

[JopieK]

Haha @Toastie, you are right about that. But at least in Dutch education, vocational education focuses much on the "what" where (under)graduate courses (should) focus on the "why": one needs to be able to have a certain level of abstraction as a cognitive concept in order to make solid designs. So a lot of experience might help better than formal education but if you look at Uncle Bob's wise video on "the future of programming languages" (which is actually much more about programming language history), you notice a phenomenon that is not only software related: too many 'unripe' engineers are flooding companies and there is nothing we can do about it otherwise than trying to let them think first, before making implementation decisions. 

[Jerry_LEGO]

On 11/30/2020 at 11:55 PM, Lok24 said:

Hi,

yes, I think that's normal (but not ok, of course).
The Bootloader doesn't expect a L-Motor.....

Do the following:

remove batteries (the hub is still on, LED is dark)!
disconnect all motors or sensors
put in batteries
hub should be turned "off"
then press green button 10 sec till led is  blinking pink(bootloader), hold button pressed

start App, process is starting, approx. 1,5 min, LED on Hub changes red, green, blue
(you can now release the green button)
reconnect motor
try app

 

Hi @Lok24

Actually I have the same issue with my hub now(it worked fine before).

I tried to follow your instruction ”...then press green button 10 sec till led is  blinking pink(bootloader), hold button pressedstart App...”

The hub is now blinking pink but staying in this state even if UP app is reopened. 

How can it go to red/green/blue? It could go to red/green/blue(firmware updating) 2 years ago but not today :( 

 

Thank you anyway, I tried to mail to Lego service team but obviously I can’t get help from them...

Edited March 27, 2021 by Jerry_LEGO

[Lok24]

30 minutes ago, Jerry_LEGO said:

The hub is now blinking pink but staying in this state even if UP app is reopened.

Perhaps my description is incomplete .....

After just starting the app it is required to set up any BT-Connection, it should be sufficient to click one of the predefined icons like "Piano" or "Cargo Train"
Just tried, for me it works, app version is 3.6.0

 

Edited March 27, 2021 by Lok24

[Jerry_LEGO]

27 minutes ago, Lok24 said:

Perhaps my description is incomplete .....

After just starting the app it is required to set up any BT-Connection, it should be sufficient to click one of the predefined icons like "Piano" or "Cargo Train"
Just tried, for me it works, app version is 3.6.0

 

@Lok24Thank you for your time.

Yes, I clicked Desney train but nothing happened. Please take a look for the video just uploaded if you don’t mind.

 

Is something wrong?

 

[Lok24]

Hi,

no, nothing wrong except the behavior.

Mine starts with the disney train when touching the landscape without even touchoing the BT button upper left.

Hm. No more ideas.

 

[Jerry_LEGO]

Hi @Lok24

 

Alright, too bad.

BTW, can you find “PowerUp APP” in “ios>setting>privacy>location service”?

 

I found another post indicated that “BT” and “Location Service” should be enabled.

 

Ican’t find it on my iPhone, I guess that’s why my phone can’t find the hub.

Edited March 27, 2021 by Jerry_LEGO

[Lok24]

Ah, I've got an Android device....

Is there such a device available, familiy members, neighbours ?

The "location Service" is, as far as I know, only required with android devices, but not sure.

 

[Jerry_LEGO]

@Lok24

Yeah, I will try it with an android phone.

 

Location Service is also available for iPhone, since I found BrickController2 in location service and there is a tip in the app description : “location access is required to use SBrick, BuWizz or Powered-UP device”.

I installed app : BrickController2 and tried to connect the hub without UP, but my life is harder than I expected

 

Thank you for your help anyway.

Edited March 27, 2021 by Jerry_LEGO

[Tcm0]

I think that the location permissions might be in the connection or bluetooth settings, but I don't own an ios device myself.

[Jerry_LEGO]

1 hour ago, Tcm0 said:

I think that the location permissions might be in the connection or bluetooth settings, but I don't own an ios device myself.

I wish that I could find it on my iPhone, but I couldn’t. Actually this iPhone and the same hub is connected successfully 2 years ago and the only difference now is the version of ios and PowerUp app. So I guess something wrong with the new PUp app with ios.

[zephyr1934]

Contact Lego customer service, they SHOULD offer support for this sort of thing.

[Lok24]

1 hour ago, zephyr1934 said:

Contact Lego customer service, they SHOULD offer support for this sort of thing.

Yes, they should, but my experinec is poor.  Didn't even get any answers to four error reports sent incl. videos, as desired by LEGO.

That was in January. Last year January.

[Jerry_LEGO]

Yes, they should provide the support but they’re too slow.

 

BTW, I just used an android phone to test it but nothing help. I gave up.

 

Anyway, thank you all for giving the advise, that’s encouraging.

Edited March 29, 2021 by Jerry_LEGO

[zephyr1934]

On 3/28/2021 at 12:30 PM, Lok24 said:

Yes, they should, but my experinec is poor.  Didn't even get any answers to four error reports sent incl. videos, as desired by LEGO.

That was in January. Last year January.

Oh, I wasn't thinking of them giving you any useful info on how to make it work. I was thinking they might be able to replace it. I've had a couple of occurrences where they sent a replacement part with no questions asked (one was a 9v train motor, but that was 15 yrs ago). I think I heard that for the expensive bits like a hub that they will still send out replacement parts but want you to send in the defective one, but I do not know first hand and they are always changing. My info might be wrong, but if you haven't done so already, for a $50 part it is worth a call to try.

[Lok24]

4 minutes ago, zephyr1934 said:

 I think I heard that for the expensive bits like a hub that they will still send out replacement parts but want you to send in the defective one, but I do not know first hand and they are always changing. My info might be wrong, but if you haven't done so already, for a $50 part it is worth a call to try.

Yes, it's different. Sometines I hat to send back (i.E. PF IR receiver), but this year I got two complete new EV3 Bricks without sending the old ones back.
I agree, it's worth trying the service

[Jerry_LEGO]

Just update the information.

 

Lego customer-supporting team had contacted me after 11 days and they will send me a new hub after discussion with them. That’s great service since I bought this set two years ago...

[Lok24]

That's really a good solution!

[dr_spock]

That's good news.  I had to send my NXT back after one of its capacitors exploded with a loud bang and puff of smoke. I shipped it after receiving the replacement.