Flawed - Mouldking 12001 Qinghai–Tibet Railway Train

[legotownlinz]

I've finally received the Mouldking Qinghai–Tibet railway train (set #12001) and the additional coach (set #12001CX). I received both in one box without nice packaging. Combined, you get the engine and two coaches. The train is 7-wide and is larger than Lego trains.

The quality of the bricks is excellent, the clutch power is better than Lego's and the gate marks are as small as those of Lego bricks. There are scratches on the bricks. No parts were missing, damaged or had a low quality. The instructions are ok, but the dark green color is hard to see. The set comes with a remote control, a rechargeable battery box, LEDs and a XL PF motor. A micro USB cable to charge the battery box is included. The remote control allows off and full speed only. There is a QR code to download an app, but I couldn't install it on my Android phone.

The building experience was good, lots of interesting building techniques are used. As a display model, the train is perfect.

The problems started when I tried to run it. There were lots of cracking sounds from the 90° gears and after a few minutes they were damaged. I could fix that by adding two polyamide washers (see images) to bring the gears closer together. After this modification, there were no issues with the gears anymore, slipping only happens at the wheels but not between the gears. Two 2 x 6 x 2 weight bricks are used to increase the weight of the engine, but they do not prevent slipping. Slipping occurs as soon as a coach is added. The engine doesn't move at all with two coaches.

Here's a video where you can see how the engine handles different track elements and an incline:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWRzCyEosS4

The middle axles of each bogie use the new wheel elements but they are not fixed. There is a high risk they get stuck in switches and derail the train (as can be seen in the video).

I made two changes to the engine to make it more robust. I replaced the transparent brick round 1 x 1 with a plate 1 x 2 and two plate round 1 x 1. This prevents that the power-on knob falls out when you turn the engine around.

And I've inserted several bars to the submodel below the engine's base.

 

In summary, the train looks great, but unfortunately it doesn't work. It can only be used as a display model. To run it, a second motor would be needed as well as ball bearings for all unpowered axles of the engine and the coaches. The derailing issue caused by the middle axles would have to be solved as well.

Therefore I do not recommend to buy it unless you are interested in the parts like the battery box and the weight bricks.

Edited December 13, 2020 by legotownlinz

[Jeffinslaw]

Are there any traction bands on the motor?

-Jeffinslaw

[legotownlinz]

3 minutes ago, Jeffinslaw said:

Are there any traction bands on the motor?

-Jeffinslaw

All powered wheels have o-rings. 

[Ts__]

Ouch, bad. The sound of the engine is not good, but what is not possible: the friction of the car. They don't roll at all.

Swap the axes, Lego axes go. That should improve a lot.

And the traction of the locomotive alone also looks very bad.

Thomas, Lego user ;-)

[zephyr1934]

Wow, how miserable to have to hold the power button the whole time. The train looks great, far better than I would expect from a clone. And to hear that the bricks are good quality, also unexpected.

So it sounds like the electronics are poor. Is the motor PF or PUP compatible? What about the output from the battery box? If so, there might be some use in these parts.

The poor wheels is not surprising, all clone train reviews I've seen have reported high friction. What is the nature of the wheels on the cars- technic axle, metal axle (PF and 9v wheels), or independent plastic wheels (current train wheels)?

What about other parts, does it have black bogie plates? If so, that would be great since Lego is not likely to make them in black again and they are stupid expensive on BL. Does the windshield have corner cheese bricks? Are there any other interesting new parts in the set?

It would be interesting if you could (temporarily?) retrofit it to see if it can be made to run by replacing the problem electrical and mechanical parts. I would definitely ditch the middle axle on the locomotive trucks (you probably have a hard time seeing it from the outside anyway). Replacing the axles on the cars and unpowered loco truck with PF wheel sets would go a long way, and with roller bearings even further. It would also be interesting if you could solve the gear problem using lego parts without using the washers.

If you do such a retrofit or even just speculate, it would be interesting to hear if there is there value after replacing the wheels and electronics?

 

[legotownlinz]

1 hour ago, zephyr1934 said:

So it sounds like the electronics are poor. Is the motor PF or PUP compatible? What about the output from the battery box? If so, there might be some use in these parts.

All the electronics are PF compatible. The motor looks identical to the Lego XL PF motor.

I've connected a Lego IR receiver and train motor to the LiIon battery box and it works. 

 

1 hour ago, zephyr1934 said:

The poor wheels is not surprising, all clone train reviews I've seen have reported high friction. What is the nature of the wheels on the cars- technic axle, metal axle (PF and 9v wheels), or independent plastic wheels (current train wheels)?

I don't think the wheels are worse than the Lego wheels, they are identical. For the coaches, the new plastic wheel type without metal axle is used.

I doubt that replacing the wheels with Lego parts solves the issues. Using the old wheels with metal axles might help a bit, but in general the engine and coaches are too heavy to use axles without ball bearings. I assume MOCers building in 7- or 8-wide also use ball bearings?

The engine definitely needs a second motor, one motor is not sufficient for such a huge train. Other motors or gears should be used to increase the speed, the engine is annoyingly slow, even without coaches.

1 hour ago, zephyr1934 said:

What about other parts, does it have black bogie plates? If so, that would be great since Lego is not likely to make them in black again and they are stupid expensive on BL. Does the windshield have corner cheese bricks? Are there any other interesting new parts in the set?

It has black bogie plates. But those are also available from Bluebrixx. The other interesting parts are the 2 x 6 x 2 weight brick (two are included in the set), the LiIon battery box (it can be used with the PF IR receiver, no need to use the crappy Mouldking remotre control) and the PF XL motor. The LEDs might be of interest, too, but they are not the same as Lego's PF LEDs. They are very delicate and I didn't mount them yet because I'm worried that they get danaged when I open the engine often.

 

1 hour ago, zephyr1934 said:

It would be interesting if you could (temporarily?) retrofit it to see if it can be made to run by replacing the problem electrical and mechanical parts. I would definitely ditch the middle axle on the locomotive trucks (you probably have a hard time seeing it from the outside anyway). Replacing the axles on the cars and unpowered loco truck with PF wheel sets would go a long way, and with roller bearings even further. It would also be interesting if you could solve the gear problem using lego parts without using the washers.

If you do such a retrofit or even just speculate, it would be interesting to hear if there is there value after replacing the wheels and electronics?

 

I'll order metal axles and ball bearings when I make the next order at HABricks / Bricktracks. This should fix the coaches. Not sure what to do with the engine yet. The parts are not the problem, replacing them with Lego parts would neither fix the gear problem nor would it solve the traction issue. The motorization is flawed, there is no easy way to fix it, a redesign of the entire model would be required but I don't have enough time to do it.

Edited December 13, 2020 by legotownlinz

[dr_spock]

Where are the two 2x6x2 weights located?  Are they above the driven wheels?  Maybe the LiPO box can be replaced with LEGO AAA box for extra weight? 

[1974]

What's up with all this non-LEGO crap on this site?

If this is the new way, EB can megabluck right off and boot me out of here!

Ole

Edit : Too childish to accept the wonderfull F:U:C:K word but accept blatant LEGO ripoffs?

No wonder TLG doesn't like to send sets for reviews anymore

Edited December 13, 2020 by 1974

[M_slug357]

1 minute ago, 1974 said:

What's up with all this non-LEGO crap on this site?

Its because we ravenous train fans are tired of waiting around for whenever TLG decides to throw us a bone.

Its because competition to TLG seems to be ramping up in terms of quality (not in all areas of production (yet)).

Its because TLG could and should have better offerings on the shelves, but consistently chooses the lesser option— the LCD if you will.
 

—--|——

 (__7===@
__^__

“Look! Another helicopter”

[dr_spock]

Clone brand discussions are permitted in the Community forum section.

 

[legotownlinz]

I got the app working. Like the remote control, it supports only 0% and 100% speed.

 

Edited December 13, 2020 by legotownlinz

[CaL]

16 hours ago, M_slug357 said:

Its because we ravenous train fans are tired of waiting around for whenever TLG decides to throw us a bone.

Its because competition to TLG seems to be ramping up in terms of quality (not in all areas of production (yet)).

Its because TLG could and should have better offerings on the shelves, but consistently chooses the lesser option— the LCD if you will.
 

—--|——

 (__7===@
__^__

“Look! Another helicopter”

Nicely summarized ;)

[emm]

 

19 hours ago, 1974 said:

 

Edited December 14, 2020 by emm
NOT LEGO RELATED SO DELETED

[CaL]

15 hours ago, legotownlinz said:

I got the app working. Like the remote control, it supports only 0% and 100% speed.

 

 

Looks like Mould King already has discovered that "steeples speed control" is a "state of the art" technology:

 

 

[Lok24]

7 minutes ago, emm said:

IMO I for one find it interesting to see what the competition is doing and glad that other forum members take time to review these products

 

Might be, but EB is the wrong forum for that, as @dr_spock already mentioned.

 

[emm]

9 minutes ago, Lok24 said:

Might be, but EB is the wrong forum for that, as @dr_spock already mentioned.

 

I have deleted my post. Rules are rules.

[Dav1d]

Thanks for posting the review.

[legotownlinz]

3 hours ago, CaL said:

 

Looks like Mould King already has discovered that "steeples speed control" is a "state of the art" technology:

 

 

I completely missed that there are more options when scrolling to the right...

The Mouldking battery box supports more than just on/off indeed when using the app instead of the remote control! This makes it a cheap alternative to the very similar BuWizz.

 

[CopperTablet]

Every time you buy something counterfeit, you always end up disappointed, even though the item looks great on the website.   But, the really annoying thing is when you get sent a clone brand brick in your orders on Bricklink.

Edited December 14, 2020 by CopperTablet

[dtomsen]

15 minutes ago, CopperTablet said:

Every time you buy something counterfeit, you always end up disappointed, even though the item looks great on the website.   But, the really annoying thing is when you get sent a clone brand brick in your orders on Bricklink.

Clone products are not necessarily counterfeit. Not every clone brand is a Lepin. Most LEGO patents ran out years and even decades ago.

Alternatives and add-ons from some clone and most 3rd party brands can be good and even great.

That said I agree with the rest of the statement 

[zephyr1934]

What about the couplers? Mimicking the current design or are they a throwback to the older design, or something completely different?

 

23 hours ago, legotownlinz said:

All the electronics are PF compatible. The motor looks identical to the Lego XL PF motor.

I've connected a Lego IR receiver and train motor to the LiIon battery box and it works. 

Now that is interesting, if the battery box does not burst in to flames.

 

23 hours ago, legotownlinz said:

I doubt that replacing the wheels with Lego parts solves the issues. Using the old wheels with metal axles might help a bit, but in general the engine and coaches are too heavy to use axles without ball bearings. I assume MOCers building in 7- or 8-wide also use ball bearings?

Even when the clones replicated the look and feel of the PF lego train wheel sets they did not appear to get the needle bearing right. The new lego train wheels are definitely a step down from PF wheels, so I bet there is some hope to get the train moving with older lego train wheels. As point of reference, my 7 car train of 52 stud long superliner cars (or 9 units counting the engines) would move when it was on normal wheels but it wasn't happy about curves. It only had two train motors in it.

 

 

22 hours ago, 1974 said:

What's up with all this non-LEGO crap on this site?

If this is the new way, EB can megabluck right off and boot me out of here!

A lot of us are curious about what compatible elements are out there that Lego is not offering us. There are clones of several discontinued elements in this set that I miss: the LiPo PF battery box (a very valuable component discontinued a few years ago and now the PF standard has just been retired, I have a lot of PF in my builds), the train weights that lego discontinued 15 years ago, the black bogie plates that lego discontinued several years ago. I'm not sure I would jump on clone products like this, but it is certainly of interest.

There is another issue with Mould King, at least some folks report that they are also ripping off MOC designs from rebrickable.

 

 

 

[dtomsen]

Mould King was spun off from Lepin so not surprising if they are not totally clean 

[CopperTablet]

deleted for incorrect information about Mould King

Edited December 22, 2020 by CopperTablet

[dtomsen]

33 minutes ago, CopperTablet said:

That's what these companies do.  Lepin rips off TLG shamelessly, and then after TLG gets an injunction, they start a new company, Mould King, doing something slightly different.

Furthermore, it's easy for them to make all of these beautiful MOCs for $150 when they don't have any ESG ( Environmental, Social, and Corporate Governance ) concerns like TLG is obligated to do.   TLG is trying to make sustainable green plastics, pay all their employees a living wage, etc.

Mould King doesn't make bricks but buy them from Gobricks like many other clone brands.

Gobricks looks like a serious manufacturer and not the prototypical Chinese sweatshop described here and elsewhere.

Edited December 15, 2020 by dtomsen

[legotownlinz]

4 hours ago, dtomsen said:

Mould King doesn't make bricks but buy them from Gobricks like many other clone brands.

Gobricks looks like a serious manufacturer and not the prototypical Chinese sweatshop described here and elsewhere.

Very interesting. It explains why the quality of the bricks is on par with Lego's. If only they handled the bricks more carefully to avoid the scratches...

Is Bluebrixx using Gobricks parts?

Edited December 15, 2020 by legotownlinz