Technic General Discussion

[Ngoc Nguyen]

The only good thing so far about the new generation of electronics is the simple hub. Its design is much more intuitive than that of the old battery box. And the fact that you only need to remove one side of it to change battery makes it more useful.

[msk6003]

2 hours ago, Ngoc Nguyen said:

The only good thing so far about the new generation of electronics is the simple hub. Its design is much more intuitive than that of the old battery box. And the fact that you only need to remove one side of it to change battery makes it more useful.

I like it has 2 separate outputs. I use it for my studless 8480.

 

[Jundis]

7 hours ago, kbalage said:

Exactly, that was just speculation.

You did make a video a year ago about a Powered Up roadmap until 2025 :-P

[kbalage]

16 minutes ago, Jundis said:

You did make a video a year ago about a Powered Up roadmap until 2025 :-P

Those were the promises in 2022, most of which weren't fulfilled. The Canvas update was planned for 2022, we got it in mid-2023. I haven't seen any of the features promised for 2023 yet, and there's only one month of the year left.

TLG released a "big update" for Mindstorms in August 2022 with new features and fan models, then suddenly killed the platform and the product in October 2022. Major roadmap changes happen unfortunately. 

[gyenesvi]

1 hour ago, Jundis said:

You did make a video a year ago about a Powered Up roadmap until 2025 :-P

That roadmap did not contain too much actual information anyway, at least for Technic and PU components in general. Basically they only said there will be new products and new features. That could mean anything.

[allanp]

17 hours ago, kbalage said:

Those were the promises in 2022, most of which weren't fulfilled. The Canvas update was planned for 2022, we got it in mid-2023. I haven't seen any of the features promised for 2023 yet, and there's only one month of the year left.

TLG released a "big update" for Mindstorms in August 2022 with new features and fan models, then suddenly killed the platform and the product in October 2022. Major roadmap changes happen unfortunately. 

TBH the poor feedback and lack of development makes me think PU may be retired soon, or at least drastically overhauled. We need physical remotes and not to have any dependency on third party smart devices, and you shouldn't need to know how to code in order to make your own MOCs. However, now that that ability is in Technic, the genie is out the bottle, and some might see it as regressive to remove that now. It's a tricky situation made of their own, it has to be said, admirable ambition, but not every experiment can be a success and I'm sure they'll learn from failed ones. There are solutions but nothing quick and easy. This is pure speculation but I think development on PU v1 has stopped while they work on a proper solution, but it could be a while yet.

Edited November 30, 2023 by allanp

[kbalage]

1 minute ago, allanp said:

However, now that that ability is in Technic, the genie is out the bottle, and some might see it as regressive to remove that now. It's a tricky situation of their own making. There are solutions but nothing quick and easy. This is pure speculation but I think development on PU v1 has stopped while they work on a proper solution, but it could be a while yet.

I don't think you need to remove smart features to add simple abilities that doesn't require coding. Even Powered Up had something similar planned, but as far as I know it never happened. A few years ago we talked to the developers about default behaviors that would be hard-coded into the firmware, similar to how the train motor, City hub and the remote work together out of the box. If you add a configuration possibility to these behaviors through an app, but the functionality can be used afterwards without a smart device, then you can have the best of both worlds. Throw in a physical remote, hard switches and buttons, and we're done. 

[Jundis]

It's sad to see such wasted potential. To introduce a new system after only 4 years would is highly unlikely in my opinion.

[kbalage]

9 minutes ago, Jundis said:

It's sad to see such wasted potential. To introduce a new system after only 4 years would is highly unlikely in my opinion.

It will be 6 years soon, as we turn to 2024. The first 2 sets with the PU system (and the app) were the 76112 App-Controlled Batmobile and the 60197 Passenger Train, both introduced in 2018. Actually Boost was released in 2017, and WeDo 2.0 in 2016, both sharing the same connectors, although the WeDo 2.0 hub was never made compatible with the Powered Up app. But I wouldn't expect any sudden changes, certainly not next year. Hopefully the folks at TLG will take the time to release a mature, fully tested and working system so we don't have to participate in an endless beta program next time.

[Jockos]

Wouldn't it be a solution to reintroduce a similar setup like the PF system but with Bluetooth instead of IR?

[Toastie]

1 hour ago, Jundis said:

It's sad to see such wasted potential

This.

In my opinion, the PUp hardware including (tacho) motors, sensors, and hubs AND their firmware - is simply amazing. I believe all the hassle really originates with the other side of the BLE connection. I know that this is quite the task with Android etc. For one, there is all the graphical stuff; more importantly though, the correct functionality of these "blocks". Android systems may not be the best choice for this purpose and I firmly believe this is the reason, why PUp in general is regarded as failure.

When you use BLE stacks in Windows, and follow closely TLGs LEGO Wireless Protocol 3.0 - there is hardly any problem with the combination "PUp + Windows". However, this needs a computer as server. And fairly good programming knowledge. You can sign up the PUp remote (or many such remotes) to control a lot of motors/actuators and (automatically) respond to things that happen. But again, this is programming heaven (or hell, depending on which side you live).

The same thing is true for the combination: PUp (LWP3.0) - Legoino (freeware, running on a $10 ESP32 device) as server - and then optionally a couple of PUp remotes and hubs as clients. The remotes transparently talk to the hubs via the server - and blistering fast. Again, you need to have some - if not a bit more - programming knowledge - here it is C++

This is where TLG failed: Providing a stable and user-friendly human interface to the other end of the PUp connection. And I bet they have massively underestimated the task of doing that. PUp hardware and firmware and the whole concept of PUp is, in my opinion, the top product line in the evolution of smart devices TLG made (beginning with the RCX).

Then we have PyBricks - in this case though, you create a new firmware for the hubs. That is a totally different thing. In the end this is the best solution, as the firmware is tailored towards your needs, which translates to "best efficiency". But this may not be what TLG wants to pursue.

So as far as I am concerned, they should stick with the BLE approach, stick with the hub+firmware, develop even more PUp actuators and sensors. But they should put a huge effort is making that remote (or even different kinds) many of you wish to have, and in creating a stable human programming interface aimed at a) children, b) beginners in programming, c) people who find it fun to program. Well, delete c) we have that already. This latter system is rock-solid. It never failed on me (Windows system+BLE and Legoino+ESP), it was always me who failed.

Best regards,
Thorsten

[Lego Tom]

Smart phones are everywhere. There are many who own a smart phone and that is the only "computer" they own. LEGO undoubtedly took this into consideration when they developed Control+ and PU. Then there is the fact that not having to include a separate controller lowered the cost of the product and in many cases appealed to buyers. After all, look at all the products offered today that are controlled via our phones. Will LEGO reverse course and re-introduce controllers? Probably not.

[kbalage]

39 minutes ago, Lego Tom said:

After all, look at all the products offered today that are controlled via our phones. Will LEGO reverse course and re-introduce controllers? Probably not.

There is a good reason why most RC vehicles today still use dedicated controllers instead of touchscreens. Without tactile feedback, precise motion control isn't possible, and you have to look occasionally at the screen to see where the virtual buttons and sliders are, so you're not watching the vehicle you're controlling. LEGO offers a separate train controller, they could do the same thing with a PS4/Xbox style controller easily. 

It's one thing to offer advanced features with smart devices, but you also have to cater to the needs of the user. This (or lack thereof) is clear to see with the Control+ profiles - they've released several vehicles over the years, but haven't bothered to add the ability to swap the throttle and steering controls. This is clearly not a cost issue, but an ignorance of user feedback and understanding how people actually use their products.

[Jockos]

Seeing the space "collaboration" between Technic and City, this should be repeated again in an other scenario.

[Maaboo the Witch]

12 minutes ago, Jockos said:

Seeing the space "collaboration" between Technic and City, this should be repeated again in an other scenario.

Animal Crossing on Mars!

[Ngoc Nguyen]

RIP Technic B Models: 1990 - 2023.

[Jockos]

5 hours ago, Ngoc Nguyen said:

RIP Technic B Models: 1990 - 2023.

Yeah, I just realized that at the bulldozer. It was predictible, I think... I hope they won't leave out the paper instructions in their next move..

[Jundis]

6 hours ago, Ngoc Nguyen said:

RIP Technic B Models: 1990 - 2023.

Gladly, the community will come up with plenty :-P

[Frequenzberater]

I must admit, that I really like the 1H24 Wave so far. Finally some Innovation is noticable. 

The space sets are great and the orrey will be a nice father&son project. 

[allanp]

On 11/30/2023 at 3:04 PM, Lego Tom said:

Smart phones are everywhere. There are many who own a smart phone and that is the only "computer" they own. LEGO undoubtedly took this into consideration when they developed Control+ and PU. Then there is the fact that not having to include a separate controller lowered the cost of the product and in many cases appealed to buyers. After all, look at all the products offered today that are controlled via our phones. Will LEGO reverse course and re-introduce controllers? Probably not.

Yeah but these are premium products at premium prices, not a cheap Chinese light switch you can control with your phone. I'm sure they took their profits into consideration when thinking about not including everything you need in the box and that's about it. Thanks to smart devices the world of a child today is so different and they can be exposed to so many dangers through owning a smart device, from thinking their lives are somehow inadequate compared to the highly edited highlights people present on facebook, to far far worse physical dangers, as well as being bullied if their parents aren't rich enough to buy a smart device for their child. They are damned if they do and damned if they don't. Lego was a way to bring things back from the virtual computer world and into a more important reality. So what do they go and do? Mess it all up in the name of even more profits. Now the child can't even play with the biggest and most badass Technic sets without being on a smart device. It's disgusting that Lego put profits above a child's mental and physical health. Oh but they do care, look, they put 4 small metal screws on the battery box to prevent swallowing a AA battery. How nice of them 

[Ngoc Nguyen]

8 hours ago, Ngoc Nguyen said:

RIP Technic B Models: 1990 - 2023.

To B or not to B,

that is no longer the question.

[johnnytifosi]

8 hours ago, Ngoc Nguyen said:

RIP Technic B Models: 1990 - 2023.

*1977-2023

A sad day indeed. Personally, I will just vote with my wallet and move to Creator 3-in-1 for rebuilding fun, but unfortunately System just doesn't scratch the same itch as Technic.

Edited December 2, 2023 by johnnytifosi

[Maaboo the Witch]

3 minutes ago, johnnytifosi said:

*1977-2023

A sad day indeed. Personally, I will just vote with my wallet and move to Creator 3-in-1 for rebuilding fun, but unfortunately System just doesn't scratch the same itch as Technic.

I'm thinking of jumping ship and swimming to Animal Crossing.

[johnnytifosi]

I sent today an email to Lego to complain about the elimination of B-models in Lego Technic. I encourage anybody who cares to do the same.

Quote

Dear Sir/Madam,

With great disappointment I read today articles about your new 2024 releases for the Technic product line, in which for the first time in the line's 46 year history no alternative builds, or B-models, are offered at all.

I am a lifelong fan of Lego Technic since I was little kid in the 90s, owning more than 70 sets currently. B-models or back-of-the-box builds were a defining characteristic of Lego for me, offering endless fun rebuilding between different variants, and better value for my parents back then and for me nowadays. It just showed how much care was going towards designing a quality product.

However, the direction that your company has taken in the past few years, not only with Technic but also with most product lines, is the one of large scale, expensive, single use display sets with little functions that defeat the original spirit of Lego Technic, being a creative toy that encourages actually rebuilding it and playing with it. Obviously, the ultimate goal is to make more disposable sets and boost sales, which is admittedly the ultimate purpose of any business, and it seems to be working according to your revenue stats. But my humble opinion is that this short sighted strategy is unlikely to win any lifelong Lego fans in contrast to the past.

While I had already limited my purchases with the decline of B-models the past few years, it is with deep regret that I won't purchase any Lego Technic this year out of principle. I realise that my lonely email won't make that much of a difference, but I hope someone in the Technic team will read the thoughts of a lifelong fan and become aware that a few of us are utterly disappointed.

Kind regards,
....

 

[1gor]

11 hours ago, allanp said:

Yeah but these are premium products at premium prices, not a cheap Chinese light switch you can control with your phone. I'm sure they took their profits into consideration when thinking about not including everything you need in the box and that's about it. Thanks to smart devices the world of a child today is so different and they can be exposed to so many dangers through owning a smart device, from thinking their lives are somehow inadequate compared to the highly edited highlights people present on facebook, to far far worse physical dangers, as well as being bullied if their parents aren't rich enough to buy a smart device for their child. They are damned if they do and damned if they don't. Lego was a way to bring things back from the virtual computer world and into a more important reality. So what do they go and do? Mess it all up in the name of even more profits. Now the child can't even play with the biggest and most badass Technic sets without being on a smart device. It's disgusting that Lego put profits above a child's mental and physical health. Oh but they do care, look, they put 4 small metal screws on the battery box to prevent swallowing a AA battery. How nice of them 

I agree completely; instead of making more and more PU sets, IMHO it would be better to introduce more parts variety (and live PU for most expensive sets); something lime 75.3mm tires with treat like on Audi, 94mm tractor tires, more flip-flop beams; 7 x 15, or 5 x 11 frame ...