Lego Ideas 90th Anniversary Fan Vote

[Aanchir]

4 hours ago, Kingriedak said:

Yeah, but as a constraction mocist, if you threw a disassembled ninjago mech in my bucket of parts you've just put stuff in that I'll have to pick out later, with the exception of a few small parts like mixel joints or fingers. Overall, brick built mechs just aren't constraction. I'm not even sure they have the same range of motion as a normal constraction figure

Depends on the set. For example, some like Miles Morales Mech Armor have MORE articulation than most constraction sets, since they have three points of articulation per limb, plus four more points of articulation per hand (although since the "heads" are just minifig heads, they have just a single axis of rotation, not three like a ball-jointed head piece would). And unlike most mechs its size,  Zane's Titan Mech has three points of articulation per leg, four per hand, AND a ball jointed neck.

By comparison, most large System mechs like the Monkey King Warrior Mech tend to have considerably more limited articulation (especially in their legs) because of the sheer weight those hinges need to support. Articulation is also sometimes sacrificed in order to "bulk up" joint areas that might look bony or gappy if they included a hinge.

I definitely understand how the building style of System mechs and creatures can feel more intimidating than constraction, though, since at larger scales generally have to be built up in a very solid manner, with cosmetic elements woven into the overall structure, whereas constraction models even in the pre-CCBS days often had a lot of their most decorative elements attached ON TOP of a more utilitarian "frame", making it easier to customize existing designs, swap limb designs between different models, or create several varied builds that all have a similar core structure.

As such, I can't fault you one bit for sticking with that very familiar building style for your own MOCs as opposed to trying to learn System mech building — it definitely can have a pretty steep learning curve, and I'm far from as skilled at it as I'd like to be. I'm pretty confident that System builds would be able to do the theme justice, but based on my own experience, coming up with designs of this caliber would be well beyond my OWN creative skills.

[Kit Figsto]

17 hours ago, Roebuck said:

Same here, I have always liked imperials more than pirates. A lot of people probably voted pirates because it sounds like a more general description of the theme even if they would be fine or even prefer imperials or islanders.
It the assumed top 3 are in the last vote, I will vote for pirates, but think classic space will win

Agree, if Pirates were to win, I'd like to see a harbor/pirate village, since we have one and a half pirate ships on shelves right now (Creator and the Ideas thing I'm counting partially as a ship since that's one of the builds).

14 hours ago, MAB said:

Generally believed by who? I think they were not included because of the dated and somewhat stereotypic depiction of Native Americans that would not be popular today.

Agree, especially after there's been a motion in the US to get rid of that kind of stereotyping (renaming sports franchises, etc).  I feel like they could still do Western without worrying about that, and just do basically a remake of Gold City Junction with maybe a stagecoach, sheriff's office/jail, bank and saloon or something with the sheriff and deputies versus cowboys, but who knows, maybe there is logic behind thinking the Ideas set might make it through.

 

[Kingriedak]

57 minutes ago, Aanchir said:

Depends on the set. For example, some like Miles Morales Mech Armor have MORE articulation than most constraction sets, since they have three points of articulation per limb, plus four more points of articulation per hand

I dunno, with the exception of the hands that's just...normal articulation for a constraction fig, unless we're comparing them to say, an av matoran, then yeah, they would have more articulation even without the fingers

and goodness, that monkey kid set makes my eyes hurt

But yeah, I can understand why system folks would wanna stick with mechs, I just personally don't like them aesthetically, or functionally, it seems like a lot more parts to get something that you can achieve with a lot less, still, I'd buy system built Toa Mata anyway, purely for display purposes.

 

[Lego David]

Well, if we make the 90th anniversary set based on only one theme, inevitably a lot of people are gonna be disappointed. So why not just combine all the top 3 highest voted themes into one set? 

[JJ Tong (zfogshooterz)]

Oh man, now that's truly a hodgepodge of the 90th anniversary haha!

also,

On 1/28/2021 at 2:00 AM, Lego David said:

Why does everyone dislike the 2016 Bionicle sets? I personally think they are on par with the 2015 ones, if not better. The fact that they added more piston detailing and such doesn't really bother me personally. 

I definitely agree with this. The 2016 line was what got me back to buying Bionicle and CCBS in general (for a few years). I find it better and also an upgrade to 2015 in general. It was one of those lines where almost all of the characters looked good. But also yeah, the only thing that peeved me was that it really could've been marketed better and have a better storyline. Would've been really nice to see a Bionicle 2017. 

2015 for me was also pretty good except the Lord of Skull Spiders was quite terrible and while the Skeletons were cool, they could've been much better. The Toa were definitely equal to their 2016 counterpart. I would've probably jumped in back then but at that time, I was too focused on Ninjago.

[NathanR]

1 hour ago, Lego David said:

Well, if we make the 90th anniversary set based on only one theme, inevitably a lot of people are gonna be disappointed. So why not just combine all the top 3 highest voted themes into one set? 

I would definitely buy that!!

[Lira_Bricks]

Kinda looks like a reboot of Time Cruisers!

[Skulls_Eye_Schooner_Sailor]

Hey all, long time, no post.  I've still kept my interest in LEGO, mostly watching JANG's videos and some others' videos, of course I kept up with the LEGO website.  I still made some MOCs I never got around to posting, and bought some sets here and there.  I don't know why Eurobricks fell by the wayside for me.  I did plan to come back when The LEGO Movie came out, but I just made one post and forgot.  I wanted to come back now to discuss Pirates of Barracuda Bay, which I got for Christmas as a "combined gift" from many family members, and now, this poll.

This poll is something else.  I didn't think about it when I was reading about it and deciding on what to vote, but after reading this thread, I agree it is odd in some ways, the way it was set up.  I agree that that could lead to some issues with votes getting split on themes and causing them to do worse than possibly they should.  I also agree that it is likely this is being done as market research and hopefully not just one set will come out of this.

Though on the other hand, had they not split up some of those themes, I probably wouldn't have voted on them.  I wouldn't have voted on Classic Space, since I don't have an attachment to it and didn't grow up with it.  My first ever LEGO set I got new was the Blacktron II Supernova II.  Probably the oldest set I had back then was Space Police I Message Decoder.  Maybe it was leftover on sale or something.  By the same token, since Blacktron I and Space Police I were depicted, I didn't vote on them.  I might have voted on Blacktron II and Space Police II.  I liked a lot of the different Space themes, including what I mentioned, but also Spyrius, but I decided on Ice Planet for my first vote.

With Castle I first came into it with Black Knights.  I actually used to think Black Falcons were the first generation Black Knights, but they are an entirely different faction.  But at least with Castle, most of the difference is with insignia and color schemes, except with Dragon Masters, Forestmen, Wolfpack, etc.  Royal Knights weren't a choice, and it was hard to choose, I liked Dragon Masters too, but I picked Black Knights for my second vote.  If the only choice was Classic Castle and they put up the same picture of the yellow castle with brick built horses, I definitely wouldn't have voted for that.

I ended up picking Aquazone for my third since that was the last theme I had aside from Adventurers as a kid/teen, before I got back into LEGO years later as an adult.  I enjoyed those sets a lot.

There are some other odd things about the poll.  Why were Town and Trains included when City and Trains are still very much going strong?  They just made an adult-marketed set, Crocodile Locomotive, even though I wasn't personally big on it.  They should make the Union Pacific Big Boy, I would definitely buy that.  I don't understand what would be different about a new Town set from a City set made now.  Would they go back to the old 4 stud wide vehicle scale and the scale and style for buildings?  The only difference being more detail than old Town sets?  

Why was Model Team included when there are still large Creator vehicles being made and released?  I suppose a difference in subject matter?  I can't recall any large Creator semi trucks, off-road vehicles, helicopters, speed boats, etc.  Model Team were more sporting vehicles.  Gotta' say I would have loved to have some of the Model Team sets back then if I could afford them.

I saw Pirates and Imperials were on the poll.  Pirates is probably my favorite theme, but we just had Pirates of Barracuda Bay and the Creator Pirate Ship, I feel Pirates probably aren't going anywhere.  There is also already an Imperial (Bluecoats though) MOC that got 10,000 votes in the Ideas pipeline.  If LEGO makes that set we will be getting a new Imperials set anyways.  So yeah, my favorite theme, but it seemed like overkill to me to vote on them in this poll.

I honestly didn't expect the Bionicle factor.  And yeah it is pretty funny LEGO used that crappy picture of the canister.  If it wins, it is what it is.  LEGO already said they won't necessarily make what wins anyway.  But, like I said before, I don't think I have to worry about Pirates and Imperials getting more sets, and probably not Castle or Space, either.  
 

[Agent Kallus]

Well this poll has just made me really want a 'Legacy theme' like Ninjago legacy but for any unlicensed sets, it wouldn't even get in the way of new or revived themes cause they could just pick sets that wouldn't 'compete' as much with the new theme, like if they're having a new cowboy theme then they could do legacy sets from kingdon, atlantis and UFO or something.

17 hours ago, MAB said:

Haven't you missed the superheroes ...

Let's not forget these  . Superheroes, Star wars and Chima rounds off the other theme CCBS ultrabuild figures. 

                                           

[Lego David]

1 hour ago, JJ Tong (zfogshooterz) said:

Oh man, now that's truly a hodgepodge of the 90th anniversary haha!

also,

I definitely agree with this. The 2016 line was what got me back to buying Bionicle and CCBS in general (for a few years). I find it better and also an upgrade to 2015 in general. It was one of those lines where almost all of the characters looked good. But also yeah, the only thing that peeved me was that it really could've been marketed better and have a better storyline. Would've been really nice to see a Bionicle 2017. 

2015 for me was also pretty good except the Lord of Skull Spiders was quite terrible and while the Skeletons were cool, they could've been much better. The Toa were definitely equal to their 2016 counterpart. I would've probably jumped in back then but at that time, I was too focused on Ninjago.

I absolutely agree, I think the 2016 sets were an obvious upgrade from 2015. I don't get why so many Bionicle fans were disappointed with those... Was it because of the slightly different aesthetic compared to 2015? That change didn't bother me at all personally. 

[General Magma]

16 hours ago, Scarilian said:

As for the nonsense that they would not adapt it because it potentially depicts Native Americans. These are from 2016, 2011 and 2010. Lego can easily create a new Western theme and simply portray the Native Americans as kind/peaceful - honestly that seems exactly what they are going for with the CMF Native American inspired figures.

 

 

I didn't know spears and arrows were used to conduct peace treaties

But yes, they could easily just do that, no problem. Thing is that they might still be treading on tightropes then what with the current political climate.

[ProfSrlojohn]

1 hour ago, General Magma said:

I didn't know spears and arrows were used to conduct peace treaties

But yes, they could easily just do that, no problem. Thing is that they might still be treading on tightropes then what with the current political climate.

I mean, maybe a hatchet would probably have been a better choice. That's where the term "bury the hatchet" comes from. Several groups would bury a war hatchet after hostilties ended to show that the matter was settled.

[Lyichir]

2 hours ago, General Magma said:

I didn't know spears and arrows were used to conduct peace treaties

But yes, they could easily just do that, no problem. Thing is that they might still be treading on tightropes then what with the current political climate.

Getting slightly off-topic, but I think a big issue that people seem to be glossing over re:depiction of Native Americans is not just that the depiction of the Natives themselves can be offensive, but also that a depiction of relations between Native Americans and white settlers as hunky-dory and peaceful could be EQUALLY offensive. The ugly reality of "Cowboys vs. Indians" play scenarios isn't just that the cowboys, for the most part, were the AGGRESSORS, displacing the native population and eventually finishing the job via genocide (as exemplified by the "Trail of Tears", where natives were marched to reservations against their will with many dying along the way). Sugar-coating that reality would be an offensive whitewashing of history, but not doing so would result in a grim and unsettling scenario unfit for a children's toy.

The reason why the Native American figures in the CMFs work is that they are presented in a vacuum, as examples of their culture that are not framed by their interactions with a colonial power. They have spears and arrows because, culturally, those are what they used to hunt and to protect their homes. Inserting them into sets with cowboys and other settlers, on the other hand, creates a tension that can't be resolved in a way that both works for a toy and does justice to the reality of that scenario.

[Alexandrina]

17 minutes ago, Lyichir said:

Inserting them into sets with cowboys and other settlers, on the other hand, creates a tension that can't be resolved in a way that both works for a toy and does justice to the reality of that scenario.

This is absolutely true. That said, there's plenty of ways to do a full Western theme without ever placing cowboys and natives together - Lego achieved this themselves in the 1990s. Western is never going to be an evergreen theme, or even likely part of the second tier of themes that run for a long time (the Pirates/Ninjago/Bionicle class). It's not even like Castle where it can be given a new life just by changing the insignia on the minifigures and designing new versions of all the sets. While the two-year run of the original Western is not enough to bleed the theme dry, imo, it's probably not something that could last longer than four years tops. The most likely length of a Western theme before they ran out of sets to do is three years - and then it would be time to retire it again for a spell. Lego could easily incorporate Native Americans into sets entirely separate from Cowboys (and have those sets be well-researched and respectful). If they didn't feel like they could do that justice, there's easily two years worth of Western sets without even touching on Native Americans. The alternative is essentially a moratorium on historical sets full stop. Any blanket reason that Western is off the cards regardless of the content of the sets could be applied to any period in history where atrocities were committed.

In any case, I don't believe Lego are any more averse to bringing Western back than any other 1990s theme. I suspect it's more likely that they have something planned - whether that be the Ideas set or a revival of the theme - that they don't want to coincide with the 90th Anniversary set. We've seen through the Collectible Minifigures, as well as sets from licensed properties such as the Lone Ranger and certain Toy Story sets, that Lego have been willing within the last decade or so to make sets with the Western aesthetic. There was even a Wild West area in the Lego Movie, which I suspect wouldn't have happened if Lego had made an internal decision to disavow Western as a theme.

[Lira_Bricks]

Do people want natives in Western sets, or just the aesthetics of the Western time?

And the bad treatment of natives is not just history, it is currently happening both in the VS and in Canada.

There is also a lot of representation of Chinese people in new lego sets like Ninjago, Chinese New Year, Monkey Kid,..., even though there is currently ethnic cleansing going on.

[Robert8]

One way to solve that is release them in separte sets

 

One set with cowboys in a old west town and a separte set with natives, similar to 6763. If you want to put them together, that's up to you

 

 

Same with pirates/islanders

[Alexandrina]

12 minutes ago, Lira_Bricks said:

Do people want natives in Western sets, or just the aesthetics of the Western time?

I can't speak for anybody else, but I'm hankering for the aesthetics. I love the look of the old Western sets with their abundance of log palisades (and had a hankering for Fort Legoredo for nearly eighteen years before I was finally able to pick up a copy at a reasonable price last summer) and I desperately want an updated version which can fill in the gaps - a good steam train, saloon, female minifigures that fit the time period. It's the cowboys and bandits I'm after.

[pombe]

8 hours ago, Lego David said:

Well, if we make the 90th anniversary set based on only one theme, inevitably a lot of people are gonna be disappointed. So why not just combine all the top 3 highest voted themes into one set? 

I approve of this so hard.

[Aanchir]

6 hours ago, Skulls_Eye_Schooner_Sailor said:

There are some other odd things about the poll.  Why were Town and Trains included when City and Trains are still very much going strong?  They just made an adult-marketed set, Crocodile Locomotive, even though I wasn't personally big on it.  They should make the Union Pacific Big Boy, I would definitely buy that.  I don't understand what would be different about a new Town set from a City set made now.  Would they go back to the old 4 stud wide vehicle scale and the scale and style for buildings?  The only difference being more detail than old Town sets?  

I think that in the very least the idea for those would have been SOME sort of throwback style. There's a lot more ways of making a set look 'retro' than just reducing the level of detail. I think a good comparison is the Pirates of Barracuda Bay set. Certainly, it has a lot of modernized, parts, colors, graphics, and building techniques. But compared to Brickbeard's Bounty from 2009 or The Brick Bounty from 2015, it's a much more direct homage to old-school Pirates sets like Black Seas Barracuda. It very carefully recreates the Barracuda's color scheme, general structure, and even several of its specific decorative elements.

Similarly, if Town or Trains had won, it wouldn't be too hard for the designers to create a set that specifically called back to the aesthetics of those old-school Town and Train sets, even while maintaining the higher standards of complexity, detail, and authenticity that would be expected in a modern, AFOL-targeted set.

For instance, for Trains, they could create a much more detailed passenger train that retains the 1990s Amtrak-inspired style and livery of the Metroliner and Railroad Club Car, or a train station in the ornate early 20th century style of Metro Station. And for Town, it would not be too hard to create a modernized version of sets like Big Rig Truck Stop or Sail & Fly Marina, maintaining familiar aspects of the structure, color schemes, and graphics, but with much more detailed and modernized parts and building techniques.

Some of these sorts of builds that would be highly unlikely in a theme like City, which typically tends to focus on much more modern vehicles and architecture that kids of the 21st century are likely to be familiar with. And even in cases where City sets DO recreate the same sort of subject matter as Town or Trains sets of the 80s and 90s, it tends to end up looking very different from earlier renditions of that subject matter, not just more detailed. The mere intent of creating a modernized rendition of an older set or theme (not just a new set which happens to depict similar subject matter) makes a big difference to the eventual outcome.

Also, with regard to your comments about the Crocodile Locomotive and Barracuda Bay, keep in mind that whatever set we get as a result of this poll would come out in 2022. It's not weird at all to get AFOL-targeted exclusives from the same theme just two years apart — after all, the Emerald Night, Maersk Train, and Horizon Express came out in 2009, 2011, and 2013, respectively. The only reason this feels any different is that using a public poll to help decide on a 2022 anniversary set has got us thinking much further ahead than we're used to as fans, and so exclusive sets from 2020 still seem a lot more recent than they will by the time any sets based on this poll actually get released.

[koalayummies]

10 hours ago, General Magma said:

I didn't know spears and arrows were used to conduct peace treaties

Hunting. Defense was really secondary.

7 hours ago, Lyichir said:

They have spears and arrows because, culturally, those are what they used to hunt and to protect their homes. Inserting them into sets with cowboys and other settlers, on the other hand, creates a tension that can't be resolved in a way that both works for a toy and does justice to the reality of that scenario.

Yes.

[JintaiZ]

I think a Classic Space pirate ship could work.  Not sure if Bionicle could be combined with any of these themes, though...

[insightinner]

my votes are up for classic castle, adventurers and imperials

[Lord-Vorahk]

4 hours ago, JintaiZ said:

I think a Classic Space pirate ship could work.  Not sure if Bionicle could be combined with any of these themes, though...

The crew are Bonkles.

[Lego David]

7 hours ago, JintaiZ said:

I think a Classic Space pirate ship could work.  Not sure if Bionicle could be combined with any of these themes, though...

The ship has a large Bionicle figurehead on the bowsprit, and the crew is a combination between Pirates, Classic Spacemen, and Bionicle characters. 

[MAB]

On 1/28/2021 at 7:26 PM, Scarilian said:

 

As for the nonsense that they would not adapt it because it potentially depicts Native Americans. These are from 2016, 2011 and 2010. Lego can easily create a new Western theme and simply portray the Native Americans as kind/peaceful - honestly that seems exactly what they are going for with the CMF Native American inspired figures.

 

 

They appeared individually and not as opposition to white people.