Sorry guys, I don't know where on the forum this topic is going to end up but I've decided to quit EB and wanted to share my reasons, in case someone cares.

I've been an active EB member since 2010 and I've enjoyed reading and browsing your MOCs, even if I rarely commented on them. Sadly, over time two things became more and more apparent:

1. Even though we're all supposedly adults here, the prevalent mindset on EB comes down to roughly "any criticism is bad, either praise people or be quiet". It's a perfectly valid way of thinking, the problem is when you're trying to force it on everyone. Personally, I believe that you can't have a proper discussion about someone's creation and fully evaluate it when you can only speak well about it. It's like having only one half of the full dialogue. In order to become better builders we need to work on our flaws, but I've seen topics here where even indicating that flaws exist was a problem. Hell, I remember one very skilled creator repeatedly misspelling a word in English and nobody dared to correct him for like two or three pages. Personally, I believe in respectful criticism, since, again, we're all supposedly adults here. Seeing flaws is what motivates me to try do improve as a builder, and sometimes I miss obvious flaws that others see. For me building is about progress, but if you're told that everything's perfect then there's really no room for progress, is there? But that's just my personal view, and the issue comes down that because of my inability to abandon criticism I have rubbed a number of people here the wrong way and that's never a good thing. I've come to think that maybe my being here brings more harm than good, so maybe it's time I shut up for good. I definitely don't want to see some promising builder to give up on this hobby because I couldn't keep my mouth shut.

2. Secondly, and this is going to be critical of the EB staff so apologies in advance, I'm tired of having my MOCs forcibly kicked out of the Technic forum. I'm a Technic builder at heart, everything I build is Technic with optional dressing for me, but because someone decided to create something called Scale Modelers Forum, I'm essentially no longer allowed to publish my creations at the Technic forum. And I would go along with it if there was a clear, well-defined reason for what makes a Technic MOC and what makes a Scale MOC, but there isn't. Let me quote the official guidelines as to what makes a MOC belong in SMF:

Quote

• Representing a real world counterpart
• Vehicles must be built in minimum scale of around 1:20.
• Ships, planes, and buildings does not have minimum scale requirement,
• Built as advanced Model Team, mainly with bricks, plates and tiles,with high level of details and prime execution.
• Not purely Technic

So in essence if I build a model of any real vehicle, it's no longer Technic. If my model doesn't use exclusively beams & panels, it's no longer Technic. If I build a model with 50 motors and 50 various functions but call it after a real world counterpart and cover it with plates, it's no longer Technic. By these guidelines most larger Technic sets from the last 5 years aren't Technic - they're SMF. So part of the problem is that the line is blurry, and the other part is that the staff makes arbitrary decisions to kick some MOCs from Technic forum into SMF, which may have something to do with SMF being terribly inactive as compared to Technic - and "terribly inactive" is an actual quote from the staff by the way: https://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?/forums/topic/185434-scale-modeling-forum-future/

 

Because the distinction between these two forums is vague at best, I would like to have a choice as to where I publish my MOCs, but I'm denied that choice in the name of trying to keep the SMF at least somewhat active. Which would be a great cause, except that the staff has already decided to give up and merge the SMF with Technic and end this unnatural division - but at the same time the staff continues moving MOCs out of the Technic forum into SMF. I applaud the moderators for working so tirelessly, if pointlessly at this point, I only wish they were as efficient in enforcing "EB is for adults" rule or at least protecting EB from spam that kept popping up a lot recently. EB has quite extensive guidelines on age limits, image sizes, off-topics, English skills and clarity but if you've been here for a while, you know that they are enforced rarely and sparingly at best. I would share some examples but it would be offensive to the authors of such topics, and in any case at least 10% of the content here works as examples. So pardon me if I find it annoying if EB is regularly having trouble with underage users, topics that make no sense, ramblings in broken English, oversized images BUT the real problem is that my MOC has too many bricks in it to be considered Technic - in fact, I got scolded by a mod for just that: https://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?/forums/topic/186860-jeep-willys/&do=findComment&comment=3434908

So, to sum up: I think EB might be better off without me and I'm tired of being denied participation in the Technic forum because of some made-up categories which by the way will soon be removed but in the meantime let's keep kicking people's content around because we have nothing more important to do. I love Technic and I hate to see my creations sent to nowhere because of a rule that the staff essentially admitted makes no sense. If I can't connect with the Technic community here, then it defeats the whole point of using EB for me.

It's been a pleasure and privilege to be part of this community, this is where I've come across some of the best MOCs I've ever seen (THIS GUY! https://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?/profile/32589-brunojj1/ ) and I apologize anyone I made uncomfortable here in any way. I'll keep doing my thing, I just won't be publishing any of it on EB - if you're interested, I'm easy to find. Maybe you'll be happier without my posts and maybe I'll have more time to build - a win for everyone. And because EB does not provide any way of deleting an account, all the stuff I've published and written will stay here, for better or worse. I hope you guys are going to thrive, honestly. Keep building!

 

7 minutes ago, Sariel said:

the prevalent mindset on EB comes down to roughly "any criticism is bad, either praise people or be quiet"

I have stopped making comments on people's MOCs, because any advice about improving model, straight and without "cool, keep it up" was treaten as insult :))

Gonna miss the hamsters on here, but will see them on YT. I understand your frustration of your long work in a MOC being moved to an inactive part that will be moved here soon anyway. Can't we have a grey zone until then and just leave the 'maybe' SMF MOC's here as they will be put here soon anyway? Still hope things might calm down and you stay here, always been reading your topics, even though I don't post much. Keep calm and keep bricking.

34 minutes ago, Mr Jos said:

a MOC being moved to an inactive part that will be moved here soon anyway.

@Sariel So what's the rush? I mean, these forums will be joined and most of your reasons to leave evaporate, don't they?

Yes, there is this "don't criticize" thing here - to hell with them. Just do it, stir it up and enjoy the show. That is my take, at least. As you said: This is a forum for - huh - "adults", whatever that means. +18 maybe? Phew. You know, when I turned 18 I was not even close to becoming an adult. After more than 40 years passed since then - I am still nor sure.

Oh well. So long then - and thanks for all the fish. (There are two distinct perspectives on this)

All the best - and keep on rocking.

Thorsten

 

Allways sad to see good guys leave.

Sorry to see you leaving Sariel.
I rarely comment on MOC topics or any other topics for that matter anyway, but your reviews are always interesting and informative to watch.

When it comes to the "no criticism" part it seems to be a natural aspect of society today where everything will always offend someone.
I don't understand this mentality, I sometimes feel offended by something, but I don't bother making a big deal out of it.

Spoiler

Although it's mostly stupid people doing stupid/illegal stuff that offends me, but that's something else.

Anyway, wish you all the best Sariel, and your pets as well of course.

2 hours ago, Sariel said:

1. Even though we're all supposedly adults here, the prevalent mindset on EB comes down to roughly "any criticism is bad, either praise people or be quiet". It's a perfectly valid way of thinking, the problem is when you're trying to force it on everyone. Personally, I believe that you can't have a proper discussion about someone's creation and fully evaluate it when you can only speak well about it.

Before all the snowflakes here get riled up over being told that it’s good to be nice to others, I’m gonna address this point.

Unless something happened really recently and I missed it, then the last time this happened was MONTHS ago. The last time the forum had an argument over this the consensus was that yes you can criticise, but in the spirit of maintaining a welcoming environment you should also compliment people for their work. I VERY MUCH disagree that the general mindset here is what you claim it is, and I think you’re misrepresenting the opposing side. I don’t remember ever seeing people say that criticism isn’t allowed.

For example, if someone were to pour their effort into building a MOC that they’re proud enough of to go to the effort of taking photos and posting them here, and all you can muster up is “The wheels are too small” or “This doesn’t look like X” without so much as an effort to make them feel welcome for contributing to the forum then sorry but that’s just behaving like a rude piece of shit.

As for your other points, I really feel for you. I find it stupid that they’re arbitrarily enforcing posting rules that are obsolete even by their own admission. If SMF is to be merged with Technic, then just hurry up and get it over with. Lock SMF up and move the active posts over.

Now that Milan’s let the cat out of the bag by admitting that they will indeed be merged, maybe he’ll realise there’s no reason to keep enforcing the rule.

2 hours ago, M_longer said:

I have stopped making comments on people's MOCs, because any advice about improving model, straight and without "cool, keep it up" was treaten as insult :))

Is it really that difficult for you to compliment someone’s efforts to hopefully encourage them to post more often?

Edited July 31, 20213 yr by Bartybum

We made a discussion topic about merging the SMF with the Technic forum, and there it was agreed they will be merged. Until that happens (it is scheduled some time after the contest), the rules of both forums still apply.

On 7/31/2021 at 3:18 AM, Milan said:

We made a discussion topic about merging the SMF with the Technic forum, and there it was agreed they will be merged. Until that happens (it is scheduled some time after the contest), the rules of both forums still apply.

Well yes, we know that (unless you’re posting it here to inform others).

I’m just expressing my opinion that I think it’s an arbitrary choice to keep enforcing the old rules, now that you’ve decided that they’re obsolete.

2 hours ago, N-4K0 said:

When it comes to the "no criticism" part it seems to be a natural aspect of society today where everything will always offend someone.
I don't understand this mentality, I sometimes feel offended by something, but I don't bother making a big deal out of it.

People need to remember that no matter what you do, you will always have one or two people that will be "that person". Just shrug them off and keep on rolling.

I would like to write lines and lines about Technic but my english is too bad. Not being many Technic builders it is always a shame to see people leave and we will be more if Lego does not change something.

Once again, the merging cannot be done sooner than it was scheduled. The SMF forum has been fully functional, for the last four years, and still is. We can all wait a few more weeks.

On 7/31/2021 at 3:29 AM, Bartybum said:

I’m just expressing my opinion that I think it’s an arbitrary choice to keep enforcing the old rules, now that you’ve decided that they’re obsolete.

It was "we" (members and staff) who decided, in the discussion topic.
Please read the discussion again. The rules are not obsolete, until the forums are merged.
I would also appreciate if you could try not to say that you think it is "stupid" for the staff to do something, from your first post in this topic. You ofc, don't have to agree with every decision, but I am sure you agree you can find a better word than "stupid".

 

On 7/30/2021 at 11:48 PM, Sariel said:

BUT the real problem is that my MOC has too many bricks in it to be considered Technic - in fact, I got scolded by a mod for just that: https://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?/forums/topic/186860-jeep-willys/&do=findComment&comment=3434908

On 7/30/2021 at 11:48 PM, Sariel said:

EB has quite extensive guidelines on age limits, image sizes, off-topics, English skills and clarity but if you've been here for a while, you know that they are enforced rarely and sparingly at best.

You complain about the rules being enforced rarely, yet when the very same EB rules and guidelines are applied to you and your model, you feel you are being scolded.
Regarding the decision to move the Jeep to SMF, besides the forum rules you quoted, I have also taken into account that you yourself had posted this very Jeep into the "LEGO Scale Modelers Association" (RLUG for dedicated LEGO® scale modelers).

Yet, when we moved the same Jeep to SMF, you said it doesn't belong in SMF, and that you were scolded because it had too many bricks.
It fits in the Scale Modeler Group, but not in the Scale Modeling forum?

Okay, let's leave now Pawel's announcement at peace and drama free, and continue discussion of the two main points in the appropriate topics:
1. "Any criticism is bad" discussion topic: https://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?/forums/topic/181403-decreasing-number-of-mocs/
2. "SMF merging with the Technic forum" discussion topic: https://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?/forums/topic/185434-scale-modeling-forum-future/