[REVIEW] 42131 - CAT D11T Bulldozer

[Polarlicht]

Is there an alternate control UI?

[Maaboo the Witch]

1 minute ago, Polarlicht said:

Is there an alternate control UI?

Yeah, you control it using your mind.

[allanp]

51 minutes ago, M_longer said:

It's not simple, but overcomplicated. All it needed were two sliders on both sides of the screen for tracks control.

I wonder if it's replicating the real D11s controls. But yes it does look awkward to control on a small touch screen.

[TeamThrifty]

4 hours ago, Gimmick said:

Maybe I'm thinking too simple, but:

Edit: Gear switch is wrong, it changes the interface modes.

 

Looks pretty simple to be honest.. pretty sure the average 6 yr old would grasp it rapidly, so us grown-ups should have no issues. Honestly don't the see the drama. Obviously Sariels review was negative, thats just normal. 

[Gimmick]

1 hour ago, M_longer said:

All it needed were two sliders on both sides of the screen for tracks control.

I have to disagree on this. A while ago I created a PU interface for a bulldozer (with additional remote, but that's not important) and after serveral changes, the most convenient solution was: Slider for speed, horizontal slider for steering, button for reverse (+ things on the remote).

All you basically do is: Lower the blade -> drive slowly and straight -> rise the blade -> go backwards -> drive to new position and repeat....

Using two sliders for the speed of each track makes it unnecessary uncomfortable to drive straight, because you have to keep it that way for a while. It's slow anyway, if you map the steering on one slider you can go full throttle and steer it with one thumb.

Different story for tanks or other more 'variable driven' tracked vehicles of course.

[allanp]

Indeed for an RC model you could have one vertical slider to drive and a horizontal one to steer, but that's not how this official app appears to be set up. Usually you hold your phone with your fingers and only your two thumbs are easily usable to manipulate the touch screen controls. It looked to me initially that with the app you are being asked to control three separate sliders with only two thumbs. How are you supposed to manipulate the two separate track brake sliders with only your left thumb? But it could be that you don't need to, and you only have to work one at a time. It could be that moving one track brake slider all the way not only brakes one side but reverses it also, so with a little practice you can control it just fine and perhaps more comfortably that the usual two individual track sliders, as you only need one to drive in a straight line. 

[Maaboo the Witch]

The sliders on the left control track direction and the large slider on the right is the throttle.

[Gimmick]

@allanp

Yes for flexible steering the two sliders are not great and two seperate sliders for throttle are not optimal, too.

TLG tried to solve this by adding an option to switch between the three sliders on the image for 'long term movements' and a joystick-control for more direct control. And I think there is a third option?

Depends on how you like it I guess... joystick, sliders, PU-Remote, Gamepad, whatever... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Edited September 21, 2021 by Gimmick

[Maaboo the Witch]

1 hour ago, TeamThrifty said:

 

I don't think familiarization is the problem under discussion - rather, the awkwardness of the setup is the issue. And TLG have screwed up the basic layout yet again; the throttle should be on the left, and the steering should be on the right.

Granted, we haven't seen the alt-control setup yet, so that might be easier to use. Although if previous examples are any indication, that's doubtful.

[kbalage]

44 minutes ago, Maaboo35 said:

Granted, we haven't seen the alt-control setup yet, so that might be easier to use. Although if previous examples are any indication, that's doubtful.

It's actually easier :) You can find the details here. 

[dr_spock]

3 hours ago, Polarlicht said:

Is there an alternate control UI?

I think you can create your own control profile using the LEGO Powered UP app. 

There are hardware/software like Legouino (ESP32), pybricks, etc. you can use to build your own solution. 

[Maaboo the Witch]

3 hours ago, kbalage said:

It's actually easier :) You can find the details here. 

Yeah, that actually looks like a vast improvement.

[gyenesvi]

3 hours ago, kbalage said:

It's actually easier :) You can find the details here. 

Been waiting for that video, thanks :) The controls do look complicated, but maybe it's like the real thing. However, I am disappointed by the gearbox switching, 4 seconds is dead slow, I'd guess the hardware can do it faster, let's hope it's just a software thing and gets better with the final release..

[kbalage]

20 minutes ago, gyenesvi said:

Been waiting for that video, thanks :) The controls do look complicated, but maybe it's like the real thing. However, I am disappointed by the gearbox switching, 4 seconds is dead slow, I'd guess the hardware can do it faster, let's hope it's just a software thing and gets better with the final release..

I wouldn't expect miracles from the final release. The problem is with the whole concept - whenever you touch a controller, the gearbox needs to switch the function while you are already expecting to be operating that function. Even if some fine tuning manages to bring it down to 2 seconds, you'll be waiting there, pushing e.g. the blade tilt joystick and nothing happens for 2 seconds. I think adding a function selector could have been way better, you select your function, the gearbox does its job, you see e.g. a green light showing that the function is active and then you can start to operate the function. More steps, but shows much better what is going on. Luckily it can be relatively easily implemented with Powered Up or Pybricks :) 

[Jim]

I just tested the app and I am actually quite satisfied with it. Driving is pretty fast and the functions work better than I expected (maybe because of my low expectations hehe). There is downtime between switching a function and operating it, but I simply press the button once, wait for the function to be selected and operate the function. 

I guess it's time to finish the functions section 

[gyenesvi]

16 minutes ago, kbalage said:

I wouldn't expect miracles from the final release. The problem is with the whole concept - whenever you touch a controller, the gearbox needs to switch the function while you are already expecting to be operating that function. Even if some fine tuning manages to bring it down to 2 seconds, you'll be waiting there, pushing e.g. the blade tilt joystick and nothing happens for 2 seconds. I think adding a function selector could have been way better, you select your function, the gearbox does its job, you see e.g. a green light showing that the function is active and then you can start to operate the function. More steps, but shows much better what is going on. Luckily it can be relatively easily implemented with Powered Up or Pybricks :) 

I don't think there's a problem with the concept, I do believe it could be much better, kind of expecting switching time under 1 second. The Volvo hauler was that fast if I remember well, and it's the same thing, isn't it? At least I don't see any difference, and the L motor can be positioned fast and accurately. Furthermore, the simultaneous operation of functions should simply be disabled, the other buttons could be faded out, so that you see that you cannot press them while another function is being operated.

[Jim]

1 minute ago, gyenesvi said:

Furthermore, the simultaneous operation of functions should simply be disabled, the other buttons could be faded out, so that you see that you cannot press them while another function is being operated.

That is a valid point!

1 minute ago, gyenesvi said:

I don't think there's a problem with the concept, I do believe it could be much better, kind of expecting switching time under 1 second. The Volvo hauler was that fast if I remember well, and it's the same thing, isn't it? At least I don't see any difference, and the L motor can be positioned fast and accurately. 

It seems like switching function does a mini-calibration each time.

[Gimmick]

1 minute ago, Jim said:

It seems like switching function does a mini-calibration each time.

Maybe someone mixed the ports in the code xD

Instead of: turn the drive motor a bit back and turn the selector at the same time.

It does: turn the selector a bit back and turn it .. at the same time :D

[Polarlicht]

11 hours ago, Maaboo35 said:

Yeah, you control it using your mind.

Oh, useful answer!

[Maaboo the Witch]

9 hours ago, Polarlicht said:

Oh, useful answer!

Oh, have a sense of humour.

[kiwimtnbkr]

21 hours ago, allanp said:

I wonder if it's replicating the real D11s controls. But yes it does look awkward to control on a small touch screen.

https://www.manualsdir.com/manuals/268463/milton-cat-d11t-cd.html?page=7

[Bricktrain]

3 minutes ago, kiwimtnbkr said:

https://www.manualsdir.com/manuals/268463/milton-cat-d11t-cd.html?page=7

The remote control for the D11 does have a setup similar to the control plus app, there are a few vids on you tube showing them 

[Jim]

I have completed my review and have come to the conclusion that this is my new #1.

[Foes86]

Basically I find it very beautiful and cool, so I'm going to buy it.  But after your review which is just awesome, you convinced me even more to get this splendid set.

[Jim]

3 minutes ago, Foes86 said:

Basically I find it very beautiful and cool, so I'm going to buy it.  But after your review which is just awesome, you convinced me even more to get this splendid set.

You won't regret it. It's a very cool set and if you are into MOC'ing or C-model building, this set gives you ample possibilties. Can't wait to see the cool alternative models on Rebrickable.