So I was working on a trophy truck/buggy sort of thing with powered up in Bricklink Studio and I was wondering if it is possible to use a buggy motor with an adapter cable together with the large technic hub or train hub. If someone has the proper components to test this idea out, I would really appreciate it. Here is the sort of thing I am trying to build.

I think you need a custom cable, buggy motors were made to be compatible with power functions.

You won't be able to use the full potential of the buggy motor, power will be cut at moderate load already. If you want to mix PU with buggy motors then BuWizz 3 is the best way to go.

7 minutes ago, kbalage said:

You won't be able to use the full potential of the buggy motor, power will be cut at moderate load already. If you want to mix PU with buggy motors then BuWizz 3 is the best way to go. 

As the Buwizz3 has 2 PF connections, you can even use 2 buggy motors or is there a lack of power?

6 hours ago, IA creations said:

I think you need a custom cable, buggy motors were made to be compatible with power functions.

Yes, I am aware that I will need an adapter cable, I was just wondering if anyone could test this out to see what the performance was like

 

2 hours ago, kbalage said:

You won't be able to use the full potential of the buggy motor, power will be cut at moderate load already. If you want to mix PU with buggy motors then BuWizz 3 is the best way to go.

I assumed so, but Buwizz 3.0 is WAY over my budget. Maybe if I use more powerful batterys it will work better? 

34 minutes ago, whitepen said:

I assumed so, but Buwizz 3.0 is WAY over my budget. Maybe if I use more powerful batterys it will work better? 

My guess is that the limiting factor is in the electronic protection in the hub. Even though PU motors theoretically have more power than PF ones, I feel  that the electrical system always lets down PU models compared to PF ones.

Is your draw to PU for the long range and proportional control? If these things don't matter, PF works fine with buggy motors (as long as only one is used per channel), but if these are requirements for you, my only recommendations (assuming Buwizz is too expensive) are to rig up a DIY setup or check out some of the Chinese battery/receiver setups, which are cheap and (at least some of which) have the long range and proportional control.

Buwizz is too expensive for me, so my current high-performance setup for my (Chinese) buggy motors is a custom battery of three 3.7V cells (from an electric jacket battery) in series, running a (Chinese) 2.4 GHz PF-style receiver.

27 minutes ago, 2GodBDGlory said:

My guess is that the limiting factor is in the electronic protection in the hub. Even though PU motors theoretically have more power than PF ones, I feel  that the electrical system always lets down PU models compared to PF ones.

Is your draw to PU for the long range and proportional control? If these things don't matter, PF works fine with buggy motors (as long as only one is used per channel), but if these are requirements for you, my only recommendations (assuming Buwizz is too expensive) are to rig up a DIY setup or check out some of the Chinese battery/receiver setups, which are cheap and (at least some of which) have the long range and proportional control.

Buwizz is too expensive for me, so my current high-performance setup for my (Chinese) buggy motors is a custom battery of three 3.7V cells (from an electric jacket battery) in series, running a (Chinese) 2.4 GHz PF-style receiver.

Yes, My draw to PU is the long range and proportional control, but also being able to use motors as servos. I have a bunch of PF motors and stuff but no servo motors so I have to use an medium motor with a worm gear for steering. Maybe the solution is just to use 3 or 4 PU Motors for drive. About the chinese electric stuff, it doesnt seem very reliable.

2 hours ago, whitepen said:

Yes, My draw to PU is the long range and proportional control, but also being able to use motors as servos. I have a bunch of PF motors and stuff but no servo motors so I have to use an medium motor with a worm gear for steering. Maybe the solution is just to use 3 or 4 PU Motors for drive. About the chinese electric stuff, it doesnt seem very reliable.

Yeah, there probably isn't a perfect solution. Both CADA and Mouldking have longer range hubs and proportional servos at reasonable prices, but I understand that many people prefer to stay away from that stuff. My only experience with Chinese electronics is with cheaper, no-name stuff, but nothing has broken yet, and their low prices should ensure that I at least get what I paid for. This is the best advice I can think of, but I don't mean to push this stuff too strongly!

There is one way to find out.  Test it out.  The limiting factor could be the type of motor drivers in the PU hubs and any protection circuitry.  Or maybe make your own high power driver circuit with appropriate battery supply and use the PU hub PWM signals to control it.

20 hours ago, 2GodBDGlory said:

Yeah, there probably isn't a perfect solution. Both CADA and Mouldking have longer range hubs and proportional servos at reasonable prices, but I understand that many people prefer to stay away from that stuff. My only experience with Chinese electronics is with cheaper, no-name stuff, but nothing has broken yet, and their low prices should ensure that I at least get what I paid for. This is the best advice I can think of, but I don't mean to push this stuff too strongly!

Yeah, I have thought about getting a Cada battery but I am concerned about it exploding. I think the best solution with PU is just to use the spike hub with a motor for steering and 4 motors for driving.

 

14 hours ago, dr_spock said:

There is one way to find out.  Test it out.  The limiting factor could be the type of motor drivers in the PU hubs and any protection circuitry.  Or maybe make your own high power driver circuit with appropriate battery supply and use the PU hub PWM signals to control it.

Well, I don't want to buy a buggy motor just to test something out, and I also do not have the proper skills to make my own circuit driver. 

2 hours ago, whitepen said:

Well, I don't want to buy a buggy motor just to test something out, and I also do not have the proper skills to make my own circuit driver. 

I'd test it with my Chinese buggy motors, but I don't have any spare PU cables. Maybe I can think of something, but I wouldn't count on it.

56 minutes ago, 2GodBDGlory said:

I'd test it with my Chinese buggy motors, but I don't have any spare PU cables. Maybe I can think of something, but I wouldn't count on it.

Thanks! Could you just stick wires into the port on the hub and the wire of the buggy motor?

1 hour ago, whitepen said:

Thanks! Could you just stick wires into the port on the hub and the wire of the buggy motor?

I just tried doing that, sticking bits of paper clip into the hub, but all I got was a single sputter from the motor one time. I think I just couldn't get a good enough connection to run it, and I definitely don't think I can get anything secure enough for real stress testing. I think you're going to have to hold out for someone with an actual loose PU plug...

21 hours ago, 2GodBDGlory said:

I just tried doing that, sticking bits of paper clip into the hub, but all I got was a single sputter from the motor one time. I think I just couldn't get a good enough connection to run it, and I definitely don't think I can get anything secure enough for real stress testing. I think you're going to have to hold out for someone with an actual loose PU plug...

Maybe someone who has the pv productions adapter cables can test this out? @kbalage

14 hours ago, whitepen said:

Maybe someone who has the pv productions adapter cables can test this out? @kbalage

I did a quick test with two original LEGO RC buggy motors and IKEA LADDA rechargeable batteries in the battery boxes.

Unloaded speed on faster output:

• PF AA battery box - 1400 RPM
• PU AA battery box - 1400 RPM
• BuWizz 3.0 Pro - 2300 RPM

I don't have anything built at hand at the moment, so I simply attached a Power Puller wheel to the faster output of the buggy motor and tested how it spins up, and what happens if I fully reverse the output of the battery box / hub, which produces a very violent load considering the weight and momentum of the spinning wheel.

With a single motor / wheel attached the PF battery box and the PU hub behaved similarly, they could take 5+ direction switches without slowing down. BuWizz handled it also without a problem, and the speed was proportionally faster.

With 2 motors / wheels attached the PF battery box did shut down after 2 switches. The PU hub practically stopped after a single switch, so there seems to be a protection there that is more sensitive than the one in the PF battery box, but the difference is not that significant I think. The BuWizz 3.0 Pro was pretty impressive, with the 2 buggy motors attached to one of the PF outputs it handled 5 direction switches without any apparent issue, I did not do more as I did not want to damage anything.

So based on this I'd say using a PU hub will have some disadvantage under heavy load compared to a PF battery box if you use more than 1 buggy motor, but not a huge difference. With a single motor it's probably not even noticeable. But if you want to use the full potential of the buggy motors then BuWizz is the obvious way to go.

*Edit - to make a PU -> PF adapter the cheapest way to go is to sacrifice a PU light and a PF extension cable, here's how it works.

5 hours ago, kbalage said:

I did a quick test with two original LEGO RC buggy motors and IKEA LADDA rechargeable batteries in the battery boxes.

Unloaded speed on faster output:

• PF AA battery box - 1400 RPM
• PU AA battery box - 1400 RPM
• BuWizz 3.0 Pro - 2300 RPM

I don't have anything built at hand at the moment, so I simply attached a Power Puller wheel to the faster output of the buggy motor and tested how it spins up, and what happens if I fully reverse the output of the battery box / hub, which produces a very violent load considering the weight and momentum of the spinning wheel.

With a single motor / wheel attached the PF battery box and the PU hub behaved similarly, they could take 5+ direction switches without slowing down. BuWizz handled it also without a problem, and the speed was proportionally faster.

With 2 motors / wheels attached the PF battery box did shut down after 2 switches. The PU hub practically stopped after a single switch, so there seems to be a protection there that is more sensitive than the one in the PF battery box, but the difference is not that significant I think. The BuWizz 3.0 Pro was pretty impressive, with the 2 buggy motors attached to one of the PF outputs it handled 5 direction switches without any apparent issue, I did not do more as I did not want to damage anything.

So based on this I'd say using a PU hub will have some disadvantage under heavy load compared to a PF battery box if you use more than 1 buggy motor, but not a huge difference. With a single motor it's probably not even noticeable. But if you want to use the full potential of the buggy motors then BuWizz is the obvious way to go.

*Edit - to make a PU -> PF adapter the cheapest way to go is to sacrifice a PU light and a PF extension cable, here's how it works.

Thanks for testing this out! I probably am going to use just one buggy motor in my trophy buggy with the wheels and tires fron the buggy/raptor. Also, thanks for the tip regarding the adapter cable!

Live up this topic.

Did someone do some experiments after discussion?

3.0 is too expensive for regular user ...

On 10/24/2023 at 4:47 AM, DKTechnik said:

Live up this topic.

Did someone do some experiments after discussion?

3.0 is too expensive for regular user ...

I think that kbalage did test it. It is somewhat confusing, especially without the bricks in front of me.