LEGO Trains 2022

[Tube Map Central]

And now, in modern times, we appreciate that, in a regular job (I.e. not armed forces), dying or even getting seriously injured is absolutely not acceptable in any way, and quite rightly so!

[zephyr1934]

On 3/14/2022 at 7:02 AM, Vilhelm22 said:

I'd almost like them to abolish the trains theme itself altogether and have trains in all sub themes.  There have been various public transport setts in the past - make a theme - the same for cargo sets.  Airport trains for both passenger and cargo could work - a revamped airport shuttle train would be amazing.  

On the point of realism, my favourite train is definitely the crocodile (I don't have Maersk, EN, or HE).  I don't see why there can't be more.

I think a train theme is important (but that's just me). If it were expanded so that every three years there were two city sets and one adult (creator expert) set, then I'd be less worried about what goes in the city sets. We need some gateway for AFOL's to this hobby.

I think it is time for an 0-6-0 in one of the city sets, perhaps reviving 7710/7715 or 7727/7730 in an updated design. (sigh, that is so nice that when you see a set number starting with 77 you know a train is near)

 

 

[Eaglefan344]

I haven't seen 60198 in stock for a very long time and I'm wondering if it's just going to quietly retire

[Lok24]

this will be replaced in July, like the 60197 , I assume.

[Dav1d]

A few years ago on a trip to Billund I spoke to a train designer and said I hoped to see a small train like the ones shown above. I was told children prefer big trains - I was quite disappointed. There is now a new train designer, so we will wait and see....

[Kalahari134]

2 hours ago, Dav1d said:

A few years ago on a trip to Billund I spoke to a train designer and said I hoped to see a small train like the ones shown above. I was told children prefer big trains - I was quite disappointed. There is now a new train designer, so we will wait and see....

Surely parents prefer small prices. You should have a big set and a small set, that way people can choose.

[Feuer Zug]

38 minutes ago, Kalahari134 said:

Surely parents prefer small prices. You should have a big set and a small set, that way people can choose.

You speak logic. Cease and desist immediately. Just kidding. You would think LEGO would understand this and have options like every other line. Smaller stand alone sets that hit one price point, then full sized Powered Up trains at another. Too bad they got burned decades ago and haven't forgotten it.

[Kalahari134]

Quite, have a push-along passenger train on a circle of track (with instructions for fitting PUP, sold separately) at around 50% of the price of 60197 (as per contemporary sets with similar piece counts). Once they're hooked, the kids start begging for the super-duper all-singing, all-dancing freight set.

[Tube Map Central]

And then more trucks, then more track, then a passenger train, then more coaches, then more track, then a proper station, then an engine shed, then more track ...

TLG just doesn't get that train purchases are potentially strongly incremental, but every time I say this I get told off by the TLG worshippers because TLG makes so much money that their marketing department must be all-seeing, all-knowing, all-perfect.

Meanwhile the model railway manufacturers have the kids train market sewn up.

Imagine that TLG sold only two types of City vehicle set. A bus company, with two buses, six road plates, five minifigures and a bus stop. A truck company with three trucks, eight road plates, three minifigures and a small warehouse. That's it, that's all you get for vehicles, except for a road plate pack that contains, amongst other things, curved ones that no one wants and some weird stuff that doesn't work. There was a bus station but it looked like rubbish and it's now been deleted. Now imagine that these vehicle sets are only replaced with new versions every four years.

I think that if this is how TLG catered for City vehicles then sales would be well-and-truly moribund. The TLG worshippers would be telling us that there is no demand for vehicles so we shouldn't expect any better, after all their marketing department is perfect. The people who want more vehicles would be complicitly saying that vehicle enthusiasm is niche and in decline and so we should not expect better.

Edited March 17, 2022 by Tube Map Central

[Feuer Zug]

14 hours ago, Kalahari134 said:

Quite, have a push-along passenger train on a circle of track (with instructions for fitting PUP, sold separately) at around 50% of the price of 60197 (as per contemporary sets with similar piece counts). Once they're hooked, the kids start begging for the super-duper all-singing, all-dancing freight set.

 

6 hours ago, Tube Map Central said:

And then more trucks, then more track, then a passenger train, then more coaches, then more track, then a proper station, then an engine shed, then more track ...

TLG just doesn't get that train purchases are potentially strongly incremental, but every time I say this I get told off by the TLG worshippers because TLG makes so much money that their marketing department must be all-seeing, all-knowing, all-perfect.

Meanwhile the model railway manufacturers have the kids train market sewn up.

Imagine that TLG sold only two types of City vehicle set. A bus company, with two buses, six road plates, five minifigures and a bus stop. A truck company with three trucks, eight road plates, three minifigures and a small warehouse. That's it, that's all you get for vehicles, except for a road plate pack that contains, amongst other things, curved ones that no one wants and some weird stuff that doesn't work. There was a bus station but it looked like rubbish and it's now been deleted. Now imagine that these vehicle sets are only replaced with new versions every four years.

I think that if this is how TLG catered for City vehicles then sales would be well-and-truly moribund. The TLG worshippers would be telling us that there is no demand for vehicles so we shouldn't expect any better, after all their marketing department is perfect. The people who want more vehicles would be complicitly saying that vehicle enthusiasm is niche and in decline and so we should not expect better.

This incremental method is exactly how I hooked my nephew on LEGO trains. Got 60198 one year. Added track, switches, and some rolling stock this year. My sister decries the fact that her living room is a freight yard.

And Marketing often has no $&#*@ clue what people want. They do their closed studies and reach the conclusions they want to far too often.

[Tube Map Central]

Well said.

These sorts of threads on the trains subforum often get mixed up. AFOL versus kid requirements.

AFOL demand is split between set builders and mocers, and different tastes and preferences country by country. I don't think that TLG could ever comfortably cope with that sort of fragmented market. Sure, we all bought Crocodile, but if we started getting a couple of 18+ trains every year we might start getting selective, some of us only buying steam trains, others American diesels, that's demand hell for a company that makes money from mass market. As a mocer I don't really want sets anyway, just a better selection of curved slopes, inverted curved slopes and windows, and more parts in traditional train colours.

But switch to the kids market and TLG fails miserably. As a kid I would have loved a steady supply of colourful Thomas the Tank engine locomotives, coaches and trucks. They could come in all sorts of sizes to suit every budget and occasion, and with creative rebuilding strange original creations could be created. As per the books dramatic accidents could be staged. Instead, as a kid all I seem to remember was various black and blue lumps and that was it, not really much to appeal to the UK market, and I wasn't interested.

I don't think that TLG has ever tried seriously to cater for incremental kids purchases of colourful exciting trains, so we really don't know what the possibilities are.

[dr_spock]

Perhaps something like a Ferrovie Autolinee Regionali Ticinesi train can be a good seller for kids. They can have all sorts of fun making different kinds of FART out of it.

FART 52 by silvano vecchi, on Flickr

 

[Phil-B259]

On 3/17/2022 at 8:12 AM, Tube Map Central said:

 

Meanwhile the model railway manufacturers have the kids train market sewn up.

 

 

Except they DON'T

Model railway companies know the growth area in the hobby is actually in highly detailed and expensive models for adult collectors which sell for high prices - NOT the 'cheap models for kids element.

OK some might churn out a range of sets, but overall they are not exactly money spinners and usually feature older tooling that is past its best.

Yes there are are also some things like Markin's 'My World' range for youngsters  but thats a rare exception in the hobby as a whole.

Meanwhile you have to acept the reality that demographically speaking model trains have not bee 'cool' or 'must have' toys for over 60 years now while even things like Thomas the Tank engine are now pitching their shows / products squarely at pre-school kids.

The conclusion which Lego draw from this is that there is zero point in offering much more than a couple of token train sets in their kids range - but as with many true model railway companies there is money to be made from Adult collectors who buy expensive models for display.

On 3/17/2022 at 5:57 PM, Tube Map Central said:

 

But switch to the kids market and TLG fails miserably. As a kid I would have loved a steady supply of colourful Thomas the Tank engine locomotives, coaches and trucks. They could come in all sorts of sizes to suit every budget and occasion, and with creative rebuilding strange original creations could be created. As per the books dramatic accidents could be staged. Instead, as a kid all I seem to remember was various black and blue lumps and that was it, not really much to appeal to the UK market, and I wasn't interested.

 

Thomas the tank engine stuff requires the paying of huge sums of money to Matel in licence fees! Yes Lego also have to pay huge sums to the likes of Warner Bros so they can make Harry Potter themed sets but the financial returns make it worthwhile.

As such a huge range of TTE products is unrealistic - particularly as the demographic in terms of audience for Thomas has now dropped firmly into the pre-school market (i.e. Duplo territory).

[Dav1d]

I have been looking back to LEGO train leaks in 2018.

On 6th January 2018 there were very fuzzy pictures.

On 30th April there was as small picture of the cargo train on the cover of the LEGO magazine.

On 12th May there were some poor quality pictures from a Russian Toy Fair.

On 23rd May the first official images appeared.

On 1st July they were launched.

This year LEGO appears to be keeping a tight lid on leaks. I assume LEGO will not be appearing at a Russian Toy Fair (I wonder what their policy is on trading with Russia?). 

  

 

[M_slug357]

Its difficult w/o any leaks because then I don’t know how much money I want to squirrel away…!

[Pop Bumper Pete]

On 3/25/2022 at 1:59 PM, Phil-B259 said:

 

Thomas the tank engine stuff requires the paying of huge sums of money to Matel in licence fees! Yes Lego also have to pay huge sums to the likes of Warner Bros so they can make Harry Potter themed sets but the financial returns make it worthwhile.

this is also why we will never see certain American trains
Union Pacific (not sure who else) require a licensing payment from toy manufacturers 

[Tube Map Central]

On 3/25/2022 at 2:59 AM, Phil-B259 said:

Thomas the tank engine stuff requires the paying of huge sums of money to Matel in licence fees! Yes Lego also have to pay huge sums to the likes of Warner Bros so they can make Harry Potter themed sets but the financial returns make it worthwhile.

What's the point of making stuff up? You don't have a clue what the licence fee might be, nor whether it would be cost effective. I'm not interested in empty guesses. The amount of Thomas the Tank Engine material available to purchase out there might suggest that the the IP holder is happy to negotiate and that the fees are far from disproportionate.

[TeriXeri]

On 3/26/2022 at 11:02 AM, Dav1d said:

I assume LEGO will not be appearing at a Russian Toy Fair (I wonder what their policy is on trading with Russia?). 

 

LEGO stopped shipping products to Russia (LEGO has 81 certified stores in Russia)

https://www.lego.com/en-us/aboutus/news/2022/march/statement-on-ukraine-russia

Edited March 27, 2022 by TeriXeri

[Toastie]

6 hours ago, TeriXeri said:

LEGO stopped shipping products to Russia (LEGO has 81 certified stores in Russia)

We got to be very careful here (on EB that is) but - I wish, I truly wish - and to be honest had hoped for - that this had been phrased (boldly) differently:

"We have paused shipments of products to Russia given the extensive disruption to the operating environment." (cited from the link @TeriXeri provided).

TLG is about toys for children throughout the world, including Russia. Absolutely agreed on. This is also about Russians >not< being responsible for what is happening. However, when a country wages a war - it is the country waging that war. And not the not agreeing folks. This is not how it works. Toys or not.

So - TLG phrased it in an absolutely passive way: "Disruption" (i.e. others) is causing the 'pause of shipments'. So, TLG cannot do anything about it. Hell, if the war did not disrupt the operating environment, then TLG would still ship to Russia??? What??? It seems so. McDonald's, and myriads of other companies have >seized< servicing/trading with Russia >because< of the war; Russia (not the Russians) began - for whatever reason.

So our beloved TLG is doing this due to the disruption of the operating environment. I won't say anything here. But believe me: That is ... much more than underwhelming. Which is not phrasing it correctly. But again: Not here.

 

Mods: Please remove post if inappropriate.

Thorsten

 

[Matt Dawson]

@Dav1d

The information we have so far seems to be:

#60335 Train Station $99.99  
#60336 Freight Train $189.99
#60337 High Speed Passenger Train $179.99

Now, there WAS an additional number (60334 I think) which is currently unallocated but follows the sequence, which might be a level crossing, which makes sense owing to the new road plates. 

We are unlikely to see any photo or other leaks until much closer to release owing to the new anti-leak team. Most leaks seem to be <24 hours, and normally because someone broke (or misinterpreted) the release time/date, e.g. local time at midday rather than at Denmark at midday.

[zephyr1934]

16 hours ago, Matt Dawson said:

We are unlikely to see any photo or other leaks until much closer to release owing to the new anti-leak team. Most leaks seem to be <24 hours, and normally because someone broke (or misinterpreted) the release time/date, e.g. local time at midday rather than at Denmark at midday.

Any forecast on a release date for these set numbers?

 

[Aanchir]

On 3/27/2022 at 5:17 AM, Tube Map Central said:

What's the point of making stuff up? You don't have a clue what the licence fee might be, nor whether it would be cost effective. I'm not interested in empty guesses. The amount of Thomas the Tank Engine material available to purchase out there might suggest that the the IP holder is happy to negotiate and that the fees are far from disproportionate. 

As of a few years ago, Mattel IS the IP holder, and that creates some major complications since they see LEGO as one of their biggest competitors.

The rumors of a licensed Transformers set later this year (an IP owned by Hasbro, another major toy company) suggests that licensing agreements between these toy industry power players is not entirely out of the question like it once seemed to be. But there's still a conflict of interest that would make it much harder for LEGO to secure a license from Mattel than from other entertainment companies that aren't also toy companies themselves, like Disney, WB, Universal, etc.

It's definitely unfortunate — Back before Mattel acquired full ownership of the Thomas the Tank Engine IP, LEGO was able to create officially licensed Thomas & Friends Duplo sets, and I know that's the sort of thing I would have LOVED if it had come out during my own preschool years.

Moreover, even if a licensing agreement were easier to acquire, there's still the issue of Thomas the Tank Engine's core popularity being with the preschool/kindergarten age range, as @Nabii mentioned here — it's hard to maintain that appeal with kids in first grade and beyond, who tend to experience a lot of peer pressure to abandon those "little kid" interests like children's educational TV shows, Dr. Seuss books, etc.

That definitely also aligns with my own experience. It's great to encourage kids to stand up to people who would bully or ostracize them for their interests, but even then it's still extremely hard to overcome that sense of shame that comes from being told again and again that you're enjoying things that you shouldn't.

Edited March 29, 2022 by Aanchir

[Dav1d]

Release date is 1st June

Edited March 31, 2022 by Dav1d

[Ondra]

Probably we are month away to see trains for next four years.

Im very interested in freight train, there was leak on reddit that locomotive is red similar to last one, train has three wagons consisting of flatbed with two containers, large wagon(?) And car carrier. Side builds are crane truck and ramp for cars if I understood that.

I really hope its true, because it sounds very interesting. Im not fan of 2018 freight train.

 

 

 

 

 

[Toxic43]

Some more from the rumour mill on Reddit.

NEWS ON THE TRAINS!!

Cargo train similar to 2018 but red, with a car carrier plus a station using the road plates. More in the link above.