Do you only buy lego?

[MAB]

5 hours ago, Horation said:

Parts which fit too strongly together are considered imperfect, that is the default position on this issue.

What does fit too strongly together mean? The clutch between two parts depends on how you use them. Take a 16x16 plate and put some bricks on it. They come off easily enough. Put some small plates on it, they are harder to remove but come of with a brick separator. Put another 16x16 plate on it and they are incredibly hard to pull apart as they fit too strongly together when the full area is used. Yet they are not imperfect.

[DonQuixote]

Finally got my Eldorado Fortress. It's my second copy because I want to expand my Eldorado Fortress and make the governors office bigger and closed. Both sets have a missing part and contained a part that was not used in the set. The first Eldorado Fortress is missing a palm leaf and I got a minifigs legs in dark grey. The second Eldorado Fortress is missing a grey 2x2x2 slope and instead I got a black 4studs round brick.

And while the clutch power of Lego is perfect, the color concistancy is not. I notice deviations in the colors turquoise, dark tan, reddish brown and dark red in some of my sets that I got brand new. 

And with the Orient Express xpress they misspelled 2 cities. 

What going on over there? 

Is quality control falling asleep? 

Edited December 8, 2023 by DonQuixote
Spelling mistake. I hope it's correct now

[Horation]

12 hours ago, MAB said:

What does fit too strongly together mean? The clutch between two parts depends on how you use them. Take a 16x16 plate and put some bricks on it. They come off easily enough. Put some small plates on it, they are harder to remove but come of with a brick separator. Put another 16x16 plate on it and they are incredibly hard to pull apart as they fit too strongly together when the full area is used. Yet they are not imperfect.

You appear to be confusing physics and clutch power. If I use one nail to hold a piece of wood, it won't hold very well, if I use 25 spread out over the wood piece, it damn bloody will. 

Take a 2x4 brick and connect it to a 16x16 plate, it will have an 8 stud connection, but it is easy to grab a relatively tall brick and remove it, meanwhile a 2x4 plate will require the use of nails or separators since it is too low to remove easily with fingers.

Now take a 16x16 plate on top of one another, you have a 256 stud connection, are you really going to claim this is supposed to be just as strong as an  8 stud one? No you won't, and you have your answer.

Now give me an example of better clutch by comparing apples to apples, say take a 2x4 brick from Lego and compare it to one from Cobi, some kind of experiment like say how hard it is to take apart a stack of them, and how well they hold a structure with tension points (ex: making a bridge out of one vs the other)? 

7 hours ago, DonQuixote said:

Finally got my Eldorado Fortress. It's my second copy because I want to expand my Eldorado Fortress and make the governors office bigger and closed. Both sets have a missing part and contained a part that was not used in the set. The first Eldorado Fortress is missing a palm leaf and I got a minifigs legs in dark grey. The second Eldorado Fortress is missing a grey 2x2x2 slope and instead I got a black 4studs round brick.

And while the clutch power of Lego is perfect, the color [consistency] is not. I notice deviations with turquoise, dark tan, reddish brown and dark red in some of my sets that I got brand new. 

And with the Orient Express [express] they misspelled 2 cities. 

What going on over there? 

Is quality control falling asleep? 

For missing parts, ask for replacements from customer support, they are considered excellent by most users and I've never had any issue with them.

As for the colours, yeah that's frustrating, I'd say complain, complain and complain. and of course ask for replacements (even if they end up being incorrect as well, the company will note it down since it costs money to make replacements), but that's why I appreciate the competition (even if I don't buy from it), since it'll hopefully force Lego to up their game. 

You are clearly not a native English speaker (neither am I), and as such you made a few mistakes, it is not unreasonable to expect such errors from non-natives on official products, but I do agree that it can be bothersome, again complain, complain and complain, in our world that is the best way to be heard (or complain with your wallet and don't buy the item).

Now I hope I didn't give any impressions of fanatic defense of anyone, I have mostly had MegaBlocks and cheap chinese Knockoffs, so the poor quality does not necessarily translate to say, Bluebrixx or Cobi being bad.

 

 

Edited December 8, 2023 by Horation
clarity

[MAB]

1 hour ago, Horation said:

You appear to be confusing physics and clutch power.

No I am not, I am talking about clutch power of an object as a whole, rather than clutch power of a single stud.

 

[Horation]

3 hours ago, MAB said:

No I am not, I am talking about clutch power of an object as a whole, rather than clutch power of a single stud.

Yes, you are. I stated plainly that parts which fit too tightly are not in fact moulded correctly. 

You then stated that the clutch of an object as a whole changed if you assembled it differently, correct? 

This is clearly referring to structural integrity, here's another example with nails : if I take THE WHOLE OBJECT of a piece of wood with one nail driven through it and onto another piece of wood, it is poor compared to a piece of wood with 10 nails driven through it, since that one will hold much more tightly, but this has nothing to do with the perfection of the wood or the nails, it is a physical property of such an object. I was NEVER talking about the strength of a single stud. 

Here's your original post (I've underlined a key part of your argument):

12 hours ago, MAB said:

What does fit too strongly together mean? The clutch between two parts depends on how you use them. Take a 16x16 plate and put some bricks on it. They come off easily enough. Put some small plates on it, they are harder to remove but come of with a brick separator. Put another 16x16 plate on it and they are incredibly hard to pull apart as they fit too strongly together when the full area is used. Yet they are not imperfect.

So what you are saying here is that the clutch power has increased, but not because of an imperfect mould, which is true, but you clearly say that when you have fewer connections, the clutch power changes, in fact it is not the clutch power but the strength of the connection which changes, again explain to me how the clutch power of the whole object is changing here, it should not be affected by how you use it. The physical connection of the whole object is what matters here, and I was doing some simple math explanations of why what you were describing was happening, if you somehow understood it to mean that I was talking about a single stud's connection (when I clearly said I was talking about ALL the connections involved), let me know.

Edited December 8, 2023 by Horation
clarity

[MAB]

On 12/8/2023 at 8:56 PM, Horation said:

Yes, you are. I stated plainly that parts which fit too tightly are not in fact moulded correctly. 

You then stated that the clutch of an object as a whole changed if you assembled it differently, correct? 

This is clearly referring to structural integrity, here's another example with nails : if I take THE WHOLE OBJECT of a piece of wood with one nail driven through it and onto another piece of wood, it is poor compared to a piece of wood with 10 nails driven through it, since that one will hold much more tightly, but this has nothing to do with the perfection of the wood or the nails, it is a physical property of such an object. I was NEVER talking about the strength of a single stud. 

Here's your original post (I've underlined a key part of your argument):

So what you are saying here is that the clutch power has increased, but not because of an imperfect mould, which is true, but you clearly say that when you have fewer connections, the clutch power changes, in fact it is not the clutch power but the strength of the connection which changes, again explain to me how the clutch power of the whole object is changing here, it should not be affected by how you use it. The physical connection of the whole object is what matters here, and I was doing some simple math explanations of why what you were describing was happening, if you somehow understood it to mean that I was talking about a single stud's connection (when I clearly said I was talking about ALL the connections involved), let me know.

If a part is regularly meant to be connected to one other part via multiple studs, then it is better for the clutch of individual studs to be lower than if they were connected through a single stud, so that the parts can be taken apart.

[Black Falcon]

2 hours ago, MAB said:

If a part is regularly meant to be connected to one other part via multiple studs, then it is better for the clutch of individual studs to be lower than if they were connected through a single stud, so that the parts can be taken apart.

Which wouldn´t make sense, since you don´t know how the parts will be connected, nor will they always be connected the same way. For instance you can put two 4x4 plates on another or you could just put them together using only 4 studs - or even less.

[MAB]

2 hours ago, Black Falcon said:

Which wouldn´t make sense, since you don´t know how the parts will be connected, nor will they always be connected the same way. For instance you can put two 4x4 plates on another or you could just put them together using only 4 studs - or even less.

LEGO or other brands know how they regularly use their parts. In fact, with digital models it is fairly quick to determine the distribution of the number of studs on a part used to connect it to other parts. Plus designers typically avoid connecting parts in such a way that they are hard to pull apart and likely to end in breaking them. 

[Black Falcon]

41 minutes ago, MAB said:

LEGO or other brands know how they regularly use their parts. In fact, with digital models it is fairly quick to determine the distribution of the number of studs on a part used to connect it to other parts. Plus designers typically avoid connecting parts in such a way that they are hard to pull apart and likely to end in breaking them. 

The point is the regular use goes from one Stud connection to several studs connection on the same part. Let´s say we have a 16x16 plate. They build 1x1 bricks on that aswell as 1x16. Or plates and several other pieces. 

[Mikdun]

On 12/7/2023 at 10:59 PM, Horation said:

it is obviously a cheaper mould used to make the part that makes it less reusable (a high quality mould will make a part fit pretty much perfectly, meaning without too much friction and without too much looseness), of course if you have some evidence that parts which fit too tightly are a sign of quality moulds, let me know...

Thing is, high quality moulds have nothing to do with clutch force - it's design thing.

High quality mould will allow high and repeatable quality, but this is only 1/3 of the equation. You still must have good and stable injection machines (which will allow for stable process) and proper plastic resin.

[Brickander Brickumnus]

I've bought 21322 Pirates of Barracuda Bay and the 31109 Creator Pirate Ship (I found an incredible deal for a slightly dented sealed box), but I also have about 15 Chinese brands Pirates ships and hundreds of Chinese brands minifigures and I'm very happy and satisfied from the quality of these products and the money I spent on them.
I also buy some of the LEGO CMF I like when there are on sales.

I'll continue to buy both LEGO and Chinese brands sets. 

I don't mix parts.

Edited December 13, 2023 by Brickander Brickumnus

[DonQuixote]

Ordered the fantastic looking medieval castle from Mork yesterday on the Bluebrixx website. I am curious what the quality is. So far I have only a couple of sets from Mouldking, Megablocks Construx and Bluebrixx. And their quality is way better then I expected. 95-100% Lego quality. It depends on the brand. And newer sets are better because those brands are quite new and still improving. Lego is doing sometimes the reverse. (color deviations) 

I could not find a review for the medieval castle of Mork. So I guess I will have to do it myself. 

The reason I buy non Lego brands is that Lego doesn't make much medieval and pirate sets. They are mostly interested in making Starwars and Harry Potter sets 

Also looking forward to the Lego medieval market. 

[DonQuixote]

Just opened the 8+kg box from castle Mork. The bricks seem good. A little higher clutch power but I am fine with it. Can't complain for that price.... 310€ and 8600+ pieces 

[ks6349]

Yes because I do not want to fuel copy-cats at all.

[DonQuixote]

On 1/10/2024 at 4:58 PM, ks6349 said:

Yes because I do not want to fuel copy-cats at all.

Lego did not invent the plastic brick with studs. Lego is a copy-cat themself.

Competition is good. A monopoly is bad.

It's like saying only Ford cars are true cars and the rest are copy-cats. Are you driving a Ford car? No? Then you are a copy-cat yourself. 

[Horation]

1 hour ago, DonQuixote said:

Lego did not invent the plastic brick with studs. Lego is a copy-cat themself.

Competition is good. A monopoly is bad.

It's like saying only Ford cars are true cars and the rest are copy-cats. Are you driving a Ford car? No? Then you are a copy-cat yourself. 

That's a strawman, this user is (correctly) pointing out that most modern construction brick companies are directly copying Lego, and many copy-cats make outright copies of real Lego sets.

Meanwhile you are saying that this is the same as saying that Ford are the only true carmakers, even though modern car companies tend to make fairly different vehicles (say, their SUVs and trucks look different).

 Also, someone can't be a copycat themselves just for using a product that is a copy-cat, that's a really annoying grammar mistake.

[icm]

Five to ten years ago, most modern construction brick companies were directly copying Lego and making outright copies of real Lego sets.

Today, there are still some that do, but most don't. Most have their own designs and their own parts libraries that allow them to do different things suited to their niches in the market.

[El Garfio]

Before the last price increases only poor quality and copycat companies can offer sets

It was the time of 1 or 2 euro sets in supermarkets and 15 euro sets in toy stores for Xmas

But with the actual prices and due to the LEGO policy of sets everytime bigger and more expensive, the margin for compatible brands is huge

There is people paying more than 100 euros for FO sets and other brands with their own designed sets

[Murdoch17]

1 hour ago, icm said:

Five to ten years ago, most modern construction brick companies were directly copying Lego and making outright copies of real Lego sets.

Today, there are still some that do, but most don't. Most have their own designs and their own parts libraries that allow them to do different things suited to their niches in the market.

Don't forget of all the MOC's being stolen by copycat companies! That still happens to this day...

[icm]

That's true. MOC theft is still a big problem. Outright set copying isn't as much of a problem as it used to be.

[Black Falcon]

1 hour ago, icm said:

That's true. MOC theft is still a big problem. Outright set copying isn't as much of a problem as it used to be.

I wouldn´t agree on that. While of course there are more different Sets now that are based on own builds aswell as of Mocs (both just copied and with agreement of the Designer) there are still plenty of Copied Sets out there, especially for bigger Sets like Rivendell. I would actually say that also increased, however with more overall sets produced from other companys it might seem less. 

And then there are Sets based on intellectuall property that are sold without the agreement of the IPs owner.

[SpacePolice89]

21 hours ago, DonQuixote said:

Lego did not invent the plastic brick with studs. Lego is a copy-cat themself.

Competition is good. A monopoly is bad.

It's like saying only Ford cars are true cars and the rest are copy-cats. Are you driving a Ford car? No? Then you are a copy-cat yourself. 

That isn't even a comparable situation. All cars are different, they have different doors, engines, hoods, steering wheels etc. What the fake brick manufacturers are doing is directly copying Lego bricks. If they would make bricks that are a little different it would be okay, just like all cars are a little bit different. I drive a Chevy Cruze and it looks about the same as a Toyota Corolla sedan but if you look closer they are completely different and the parts aren't interchangeable. Imagine if I would build an identical car to the Ford Focus and call it Dorf Fosuc and sell it to people. That wouldn't be okay and that's exactly what the fake brick producers are doing.

[Yperio_Bricks]

I don't understand how people constantly ignore the fact that Lego is a fake brick producer themselves? Why the hell have Lego bricks the same dimensions as Kiddicraft bricks? Oh, and as you all know because it was written here before, Kiddicraft had bigger sized bricks too. The size Duplo uses... Buy your logic Lego had to choose a different size for their bricks, no?

I only buy Lego because my brain likes it this way but i don't have to constantly twist everything to make it fit a narrative.

[icm]

18 minutes ago, SpacePolice89 said:

That isn't even a comparable situation. All cars are different, they have different doors, engines, hoods, steering wheels etc. What the fake brick manufacturers are doing is directly copying Lego bricks. If they would make bricks that are a little different it would be okay, just like all cars are a little bit different. I drive a Chevy Cruze and it looks about the same as a Toyota Corolla sedan but if you look closer they are completely different and the parts aren't interchangeable. Imagine if I would build an identical car to the Ford Focus and call it Dorf Fosuc and sell it to people. That wouldn't be okay and that's exactly what the fake brick producers are doing.

There's great value in having the same brick dimensions as an industry standard. Imagine if all the connectors in your Dell computer were proprietary and none of your Dell peripherals could plug into your Toshiba. Fact is, Ford and Chevy and Toyota cars all share a lot of common industry standard connections, even though many of the parts are different. Likewise, almost all brick companies use the industry standard size, even though many of them have somewhat different parts libraries.

[Horation]

19 minutes ago, Yperio_Bricks said:

I don't understand how people constantly ignore the fact that Lego is a fake brick producer themselves? Why the hell have Lego bricks the same dimensions as Kiddicraft bricks? Oh, and as you all know because it was written here before, Kiddicraft had bigger sized bricks too. The size Duplo uses... Buy your logic Lego had to choose a different size for their bricks, no?

I only buy Lego because my brain likes it this way but i don't have to constantly twist everything to make it fit a narrative.

From what I seem to remember, there were a ton of plastic brick companies across Europe in those early days, so it does not really shock me all that much that Lego's original designer was inspired by kiddicraft ; tons of companies were being inspired by one another at the time. However, and do correct me if I am wrong, but I seem to remember Lego being the first to add tubes to their bricks, making it possible to make larger and much sturdier designs.