42146 - Liebherr LR13000

[Anio]

4 hours ago, R0Sch said:

Here is a quick and dirty summary of price/gramm for all Technic sets from 42000 to 42158 based on the part weights taken from brickmerge (don't know how accurate those are).

Very interesting study.
However, I think that the weight and the approx value of electronic parts (motors, hubs) should be deducted from the total weight and the price so as to truly calculate the value of plastic.

To some extend, the same should be done with pneumatic parts (cylinders, pumps, switchs) as they are expensive parts.

Edited July 28, 2023 by Milan
Removed quoted image and text from the same page.

[R0Sch]

29 minutes ago, Anio said:

Very interesting study.
However, I think that the weight and the approx value of electronic parts (motors, hubs) should be deducted from the total weight and the price so as to truly calculate the value of plastic.

To some extend, the same should be done with pneumatic parts (cylinders, pumps, switchs) as they are expensive parts.

But then you'd also have to take out the rims and tires, etc.

[Anio]

1 minute ago, R0Sch said:

But then you'd also have to take out the rims and tires, etc.

Nah. They don't change the value that much. I mean, compared to electric parts.

[R0Sch]

11 minutes ago, Anio said:

Nah. They don't change the value that much. I mean, compared to electric parts.

I disagree. Here are the most expensive Technic elements sorted from highest to lowest from B&P's:

[kbalage]

3 hours ago, R0Sch said:

Here is a quick and dirty summary of price/gramm for all Technic sets from 42000 to 42158 based on the part weights taken from brickmerge (don't know how accurate those are).

Thanks, I was comparing it with the Ferrari Daytona for my next video, and the price/weight ratio of the Ferrari is worse in every configuration (with or without electronics, even without counterweights). 

[Anio]

1 hour ago, R0Sch said:

I disagree. Here are the most expensive Technic elements sorted from highest to lowest from B&P's:

No offense, but you kinda make my point.
A - the price of B&P is not so relevant

B- eventhough the value were relevant, these parts have little value compared to PU element (about 20 or 25€ per element)

Edited July 28, 2023 by Milan
Removed quoted image and text from the same page.

[Milan]

@Danke
@Anio

Don't quote the whole block of pictures and text, please.

[Danke]

1 hour ago, Milan said:

@Danke
@Anio

Don't quote the whole block of pictures and text, please.

Sorry, i wasn’t sure how to truncate them on mobile, it’s a bit fiddly.

@kbalage Unrelated to value/weight but i do have a question: Is it feasible to disassemble the booms for transport without having to untie one of the ends of the strings? I couldn’t quite tell from the video.

Also what is the most compact position you can display without the crane folding unto itself? 

[kbalage]

Here is my 2nd video about the set with more details, comparison to other cranes and Technic sets, more lifting tests, and even more serious lifting tests with some extra counterweight :) 

 

@Danke - regarding the positions I suggest to watch the video, there's a section with the full range of motion. You can detach the booms and the links fairly easily, but you really need to pay attention to the strings.

[Repkovsky]

2 hours ago, kbalage said:

Here is my 2nd video about the set with more details, comparison to other cranes and Technic sets, more lifting tests, and even more serious lifting tests with some extra counterweight :)

If anyone wonders why Sariel gets so much less views than RacingBricks nowadays, here is the answer - well prepared, objective, exhaustive research on the subject, without exaggerated emotions. Great job!

[Danke]

2 hours ago, kbalage said:

regarding the positions I suggest to watch the video, there's a section with the full range of motion. You can detach the booms and the links fairly easily, but you really need to pay attention to the strings.

I recall there is a position with boom at highest position but jib at lowest which was slightly more compact? I’m not sure where i saw it before.

I’d like to see how easy would the 2 ballast config be to mod, not the most playable but without it the crane looks quite naked at the back.

[aminnich]

Why 2 spools for the hook? Does it not work like a typical block and hook setup?

[Mr Jos]

3 hours ago, kbalage said:

Here is my 2nd video about the set with more details, comparison to other cranes and Technic sets, more lifting tests, and even more serious lifting tests with some extra counterweight :) 

...

@Danke - regarding the positions I suggest to watch the video, there's a section with the full range of motion. You can detach the booms and the links fairly easily, but you really need to pay attention to the strings.

About the fast turning turret, can't you make it rotate slower by only pulling the lever a little on the screen? It looks like it's not just -100% / 0% / 100%. If so, you need to slowly start driving up the speed to prevent it jerking like that, slowing down the same way. It's kind of how I rotate using a real rotating telehander at work as well, I'm not going to jerk it directly 100% in any direction.

But once again, having tactile controls would be easyer to do this slow ramp up/down.. Or they could even program a soft starter, oh well.. maybe it's just me..

Edited July 29, 2023 by Mr Jos

[kbalage]

16 minutes ago, Mr Jos said:

About the fast turning turret, can't you make it rotate slower by only pulling the lever a little on the screen? It looks like it's not just -100% / 0% / 100%. If so, you need to slowly start driving up the speed to prevent it jerking like that, slowing down the same way. It's kind of how I rotate using a real rotating telehander at work as well, I'm not going to jerk it directly 100% in any direction.

But once again, having tactile controls would be easyer to do this slow ramp up/down.. Or they could even program a soft starter, oh well.. maybe it's just me..

You can make it turn slower, but that requires a lot of attention on a touch screen, I don't see why it needs to have this maximum speed at all.

[Mr Jos]

1 minute ago, kbalage said:

You can make it turn slower, but that requires a lot of attention on a touch screen, I don't see why it needs to have this maximum speed at all.

That's what many people say about my camaro as well, why can it go 255km/h as just 120km/h is allowed and safe. Answer is because it's possible (and Germany exists). For the crane, if you want to rotate 180° without anything on the hook you might reach this max speed even when using a soft start/stop movement. But indeed they should have like programmed this soft start, pull the lever directly 100%, but it goes only 10% faster each 300ms, gradually. Disadvantage would be a slowdown would make the crane turn more then wanted if you don't pay attention.

But I'm more impressed that it could lift 3kg+ without snapping out any pins. I do feel like making a liftarm boom would bend much more when lifting this 3kg, as there would be many more possible bending locations.

[mdemerchant]

2 hours ago, aminnich said:

Why 2 spools for the hook? Does it not work like a typical block and hook setup?

I think this is one detail where they are matching the real crane, sort of.  Real crane uses two winches for the hook, but they are located front to back in the superstructure, not side by side and ganged as in the Lego version.  A lot of heavy lift cranes use this setup.

[aminnich]

6 minutes ago, mdemerchant said:

I think this is one detail where they are matching the real crane, sort of.  Real crane uses two winches for the hook, but they are located front to back in the superstructure, not side by side and ganged as in the Lego version.  A lot of heavy lift cranes use this setup.

Thanks for the clarification. I don’t work with cranes… so that setup seemed odd to me.  At least they got one thing right about the crane 

[anyUser]

18 hours ago, aminnich said:

Why 2 spools for the hook? Does it not work like a typical block and hook setup?

This is the first official crane that uses 4 wheels in a block and tackle. Could it be to give out and pull in the string faster?

[Bartybum]

1 hour ago, anyUser said:

This is the first official crane that uses 4 wheels in a block and tackle. Could it be to give out and pull in the string faster?

I worked in a girder crane engineering firm for a year, and whenever there were two falls of rope off the drum, it was generally done to cancel out hook drift during hoisting. I'd assume the same strategy is also employed in large crawler cranes to minimize the risk of buckling.

Edited July 30, 2023 by Bartybum

[nerdsforprez]

On 7/26/2023 at 12:55 PM, Aleh said:

luckily I have some experience in building crawler cranes.

Ya think (for those who don't know @Aleh check out signature block)!!!??   Joking aside... I would love to see what you could come up with for this set...

On 7/28/2023 at 6:17 AM, kbalage said:

It's interesting to see that big price / weight chart without the really outstanding other Technic sets like the 1:8 scale supercars. 

You are referring to the chart in the Brickarchitect article right?  

[Bricktrain]

5 hours ago, anyUser said:

This is the first official crane that uses 4 wheels in a block and tackle. Could it be to give out and pull in the string faster?

As Aminnich has said most larger Cranes use two winches when rigged for heavy lifting. For example the 600t Demag at work has a 15t line pull, so to get 600t capacity needs 40 parts of line ( falls), that is too slow with a single winch so two winches are used in 20 parts each, giving 300t x2 or 600t combined. It still takes a long time to lower the hook or raise the load from 50m height. Each winch only holds 1000m of rope also so couldn't reach the ground if it was rigged with more than 10 parts if it had a boom height of 100m. 

[nerdsforprez]

On 7/28/2023 at 8:53 AM, R0Sch said:

Here is a quick and dirty summary of price/gramm for all Technic sets from 42000 to 42158 based on the part weights taken from brickmerge (don't know how accurate those are).

and after LEGO's MSRP increases:


and the sets sorted from worst to best ratio:
........

Great job presenting this data, but wouldn't it be better if we placed in all in temporal order (by year)?  That way would really help determine any possible increase over time.  I want to things that beginning with set 42000 there is a linear progression with set number and time of release but there is not.  

Folks should also really consider that one cannot compare really small sets with large one in price per gram relationships.  The reason for this is the relationship is not linear.  It is logarithmic with the curve flattening out as piece count or weight exceeds a certain amount.  I have shown this in the past (like nearly ten years ago) but I believe this is because larger sets typically have more redundancy in them (repeated parts such as pins in Technic, regular bricks in other sets) and therefore, at least if you operationalize the term "efficient" with less redundancy large sets are more efficient than smaller sets changing the curvilinear relationship between cost and weight for large sets versus the same relationship for small sets.  

[kbalage]

46 minutes ago, nerdsforprez said:

Ya think (for those who don't know @Aleh check out signature block)!!!??   Joking aside... I would love to see what you could come up with for this set...

You are referring to the chart in the Brickarchitect article right?  

Yes, I was referring to that. The 1:8 scale cars like the Ferrari have a pretty bad price / weight ratio. 

[fred-eric]

3 hours ago, kbalage said:

Yes, I was referring to that. The 1:8 scale cars like the Ferrari have a pretty bad price / weight ratio. 

ferrari license price ?

On 7/29/2023 at 11:38 AM, kbalage said:

Here is my 2nd video about the set with more details, comparison to other cranes and Technic sets, more lifting tests, and even more serious lifting tests with some extra counterweight :) 

 

@Danke - regarding the positions I suggest to watch the video, there's a section with the full range of motion. You can detach the booms and the links fairly easily, but you really need to pay attention to the strings.

It is interesting to see the structure is fine when the motor stalled and unfortunately the counterweight are really weak

[kbalage]

4 hours ago, fred-eric said:

ferrari license price ?

I don't think there's a significant difference between the licensing prices of different companies. The 1:8 scale cars are sold as a premium product with premium packaging and all the bells and whistles, so they ask a premium price for them.