42146 - Liebherr LR13000

[Maaboo the Witch]

1 hour ago, Timorzelorzworz said:

This does not justify to want 680€ for a unfinished model with design flaws.

Not saying it does.

[WvG_853]

Was hesitating long time if I should buy this set because of the flawed design and the crazy price. In the end  I succumbed today. Found it for 412,5 EUR in the supermarket as part of a Christmas promo. I hope that someone will come up with a “pimp my Lieberherr”  version that will look as it should have looked in the first place!

[Toastie]

11 minutes ago, WvG_853 said:

I hope that someone will come up with a “pimp my Lieberherr"

Wasn't it: "Just buy two"? (As it was/is with all passenger trains etc.?) 

Best, Thorsten

[Maaboo the Witch]

Rewatched Sariel's review. This thing really is one of the worst Technic sets ever.

[The Southern Brickfan]

3 hours ago, WvG_853 said:

Was hesitating long time if I should buy this set because of the flawed design and the crazy price. In the end  I succumbed today. Found it for 412,5 EUR in the supermarket as part of a Christmas promo. I hope that someone will come up with a “pimp my Lieberherr”  version that will look as it should have looked in the first place!

check out Arjen De Jong'd creation :)

https://www.facebook.com/groups/692192977820896/permalink/2018714711835376/

[Lego Tom]

I added 4 sections to the boom. I have to admit, it looks better but it skewered the lift. If I adjust so it lowers to the ground, it won't pick up all the way and vice versa. So I changed out the 'cable', adding a total of 3 feet or just shy of a meter. That helped but the when lifting from the ground, the spools run out of revolutions before the load is as high as it should be. I'm thinking I can compensate by wrapping something around the spools to make their diameter bigger. I believe the control works off a set number of motor/spool turns and by increasing the spool diameter, it will spool more 'cable' with each revolution.

I'm open to suggestions in this regard...

[allanp]

@Lego Tom It certainly looks better, however I think you need to move the attachment point from the middle of the main boom to the top to stop it bending.

[Lego Tom]

4 hours ago, allanp said:

@Lego Tom It certainly looks better, however I think you need to move the attachment point from the middle of the main boom to the top to stop it bending.

That's the next mod!

[Arjan de Jong]

On 28-10-2023 at 01:11, The Southern Brickfan said:

check de creatie van Arjen De Jong :) Zo had hij er in mijn ogen uit moeten zien....

https://www.facebook.com/groups/692192977820896/permalink/2018714711835376/

[Lego Tom]

So here is stock vs modified, with the boom attachment joint relocated:

 

Edited October 29, 2023 by Lego Tom

[The Southern Brickfan]

12 hours ago, Arjan de Jong said:

 

So Arjen, how did you get around the issue the Lego Tom is having about the length of the string impacting the control+ system. I assume you simply did not use it?  Did you use S Brick, Buwizz, Brick Controller 2? How many extra frames did you need to purchase for this wonderful upgrade to what it should have been?

Thanks

Edited October 30, 2023 by Milan
Do not quote images from the same page.

[Bricktrain]

I haven't  changed my strings yet, I just use longer rigging from the hook to the load.

[Mikdun]

16 hours ago, Lego Tom said:

So here is stock vs modified, with the boom attachment joint relocated

Your model look so much better than stock! Only now it reminds me the cranes I saw around the construction sites (I know, they weren't LR13000  ).

[Lego Tom]

37 minutes ago, Mikdun said:

Your model look so much better than stock! Only now it reminds me the cranes I saw around the construction sites (I know, they weren't LR13000  ).

Thanks!!! It looks better but barely fits without hitting the ceiling!

[Mikdun]

4 minutes ago, Lego Tom said:

barely fits without hitting the ceiling!

That's fault of your house, not LEGO. 

[Lego Tom]

39 minutes ago, Mikdun said:

That's fault of your house, not LEGO. 

LOL - Hey, I'm not a Hobbit!

WARNING: This post is going to delve into a non-LEGO solution! If that offends you, please do not proceed!

In essence, when adding four extra sections to the boom, 36 inches (914mm) of cord had to be added to the cable to enable the hook to lower all the way to the ground. As mentioned, this left the hook a considerable distance from the top, even when recalibrating with the LEGO Control+ app.  There are a couple of ways to cheat the system. The proper LEGO approved method would be to use gears to drive the drums which are currently direct drive off the motor. Using 2:1 gearing where the motor turned one revolution for 2 revolutions of each cable drum would more than cure the issue. Unfortunately, room does not appear to be available for this solution, plus said gearing would make the crane unnaturally fast (IMHO). Option 2 leads one off of the approved, no modifications path. Increasing the diameter of the drum serves the same purpose but there is nothing (that I am aware of) in the LEGO parts bin to do this. The factory piece measures .3125" / 8mm. Because the cord does not wrap around the drum in successive layers as most real winches do, it's hard to calculate a specific drum diameter that would take up the cable at a rate where the added 36" would spool using the same number of turns supplied by the LEGO motor, but something between .438" / 11.125mm and .5" / 12.7mm should work.

**SECOND WARNING** Non LEGO approved discussion is about to get serious! After giving thought to this for a couple of days, there appears to be on relatively simple solution. A .5" wooden dowel, drilled down the center then split in half could be placed over the original spool. Fastening it in place could be as fancy as using tiny screws or as simple as using piece of tape. This solution is not without possible problems however. As mentioned, there is no system for cable guidance and the spools often wrap wildly uneven. Without the additional diameter, this isn't a problem because the spool sides are high enough to always contain the mound of cable that frequently develops but with the extra diameter, this might be come a problem.

If someone can suggest an alternative solution to this, I wold love to hear what you have! 

Things to remember: the 36" added cable were based on the distance the hook was shy of reaching the top of the boom. The actual distance was 9" but there are four lengths of cable running from the boom to the hook, therefore 36" total. Since there are two spools used to operate the raising and lowering of the hook, the 36" is divided into 18" extra inches per drum. Because I'm an old American who is set in his ways, I cling to the English measurement system, mostly unapologetically. However if you are as set in using metric, as I am inches, I will readily do the needed conversions for any solution you propose! 

[Davidz90]

1 hour ago, Lego Tom said:

If someone can suggest an alternative solution to this, I wold love to hear what you have! 

In my crane, I used 6580 Wheel 43.2 x 28 as the spool. Naturally that would need quite a bit of modification since these rims are 4 studs wide, not 3. String is attached to the rim surface with tape.

[Milan]

8 posts have been hidden.

Stick to the set discussion.

[JaBaCaDaBra]

12 minutes ago, Milan said:

8 posts have been hidden.

Stick to the set discussion.

censoring on a Lego forum whilst discussing Chinese counterfaith is accepted.

any idea what feelings this gives?

[Milan]

7 minutes ago, JaBaCaDaBra said:

censoring on a Lego forum whilst discussing Chinese counterfaith is accepted.

any idea what feelings this gives?

Leave moderating to the staff, please.
If you think something needs staff attention, you can report it, or you can post in the Forum Information and Help.
Otherwise, this is a topic for Liebherr discussion, so please, stick to the Liebherr.

[Clone OPatra]

Sigh. More comments to hide.  Stick to the actual topic now or face further consequences.

[The Southern Brickfan]

It seems Arjen's reply to my question about length of the string he used etc has somehow disappeared, possibly due to the unwelcome comments made by someone.

Anyway, here is his Response.:

Ik gebruik gewoon de Lego app. Ik heb wel grotere liertrommels gebruikt en meer draad (ongeveer 50m1). Met de app kun je de draadlengtes opnieuw kalibreren, dit werkt gewoon goed. Voor het hijswerk gebruik ik alleen het kleine hijsblok, de grote hangt er alleen in voor het gexicht (en gewicht).

Here is Google's translaton:

I just use the Lego app. I did use larger winch drums and more wire (about 50m1). With the app you can recalibrate the wire lengths, this works just fine. I only use the small lifting block for lifting, the large one is only there for the face (and weight).

I was not aware that the length of the strings could be recalibrated? If so, would you need to increase the diameter of the drums?

So far, I have come across solutions which require larger drums, but use the same length strings, but still if the app only allows so much rotation of the drum (hence the need to increase the diameter of the drum), then there will still be only so much available movement of the hook up and down. Hence my question of whether another software solution had been used...

 

[Lego Tom]

6 hours ago, The Southern Brickfan said:

It seems Arjen's reply to my question about length of the string he used etc has somehow disappeared, possibly due to the unwelcome comments made by someone.

Anyway, here is his Response.:

Ik gebruik gewoon de Lego app. Ik heb wel grotere liertrommels gebruikt en meer draad (ongeveer 50m1). Met de app kun je de draadlengtes opnieuw kalibreren, dit werkt gewoon goed. Voor het hijswerk gebruik ik alleen het kleine hijsblok, de grote hangt er alleen in voor het gexicht (en gewicht).

Here is Google's translaton:

I just use the Lego app. I did use larger winch drums and more wire (about 50m1). With the app you can recalibrate the wire lengths, this works just fine. I only use the small lifting block for lifting, the large one is only there for the face (and weight).

I was not aware that the length of the strings could be recalibrated? If so, would you need to increase the diameter of the drums?

So far, I have come across solutions which require larger drums, but use the same length strings, but still if the app only allows so much rotation of the drum (hence the need to increase the diameter of the drum), then there will still be only so much available movement of the hook up and down. Hence my question of whether another software solution had been used...

 

I wish I understood exactly how the program calculation works. I'm guessing it's a combination of weight/load and number of motor revolutions. I came up with this theory based on the fact that when using the stock cord and a stock build, the hook rises to the top of the boom until it encounters the boom, encounters resistance and calculates the top movement based upon that travel - meaning it is using resistance in setting the upper limit. When adding extra boom pieces and longer cord, the process no longer raises the hook until it encounters resistance, indicating there is also a revolution counter being employed.

Larger drums overcome the revolution counter because the greater circumference results in more cord wound on the drum per revolution. Here's some rough calculations I did:

Stock Drum = 8mm dia / 24.9mm Cir
Mod Drum 1 = 9.5mm dia / 29.9mm Cir
Mod Drum 2 = 11.125mm dia / 34.95mm Cir
Mod Drum 3 = 12.7mm dia / 39.9mm Cir

Here's what those increased circumferences equate to line spooled onto the drum after 10 turns
Standard Drum  = 249.9mm
Mod Drum 1 = 290.9mm
Mod Drum 2 = 349.5mm
Mod Drum 3 = 399mm

So modified drum 3 will spool approximately 50mm more cord after 10 turns. Note the word approximately as the spooling isn't consistent enough to be accurate. Each time the cord laps over itself, it adds circumference to the drum, thus adding to the amount of string wound on the drum. My goal is to get about 900mm more cord on the drum to compensate for the cord I added. I am hoping making the drum circumference 12.7mm, and taking into account the growing circumference effect as the cord is wound on to the spool, the LEGO program will be fooled into believing nothing has changed and will spool all or most of the extra cord.

Hope this makes sense to all...

 

[Timorzelorzworz]

If you're getting bored from endless LR 13000 discussion, rebuild it and try to dig something

https://reb.li/m/161646

[Maaboo the Witch]

1 hour ago, Timorzelorzworz said:

If you're getting bored from endless LR 13000 discussion, rebuild it and try to dig something

https://reb.li/m/161646

Cool build!