So this is something I’ve been pondering for a while but never started. After enjoying collecting the “Ultimate” Technic cars and having viewed some amazing creations on here of scaled versions of real cars, I want to do the same ... but I need some help / guidance as the only “scale model” I’ve ever created myself has been my “mad max” taxi for TC17 and that was relatively easy as it didn’t need to match wheels.

Why an MX-5 Mk1 ? Because I have one as my “weekend toy” and for anyone that hasn’t driven one you’re missing out, it may not be fast but it puts a huge grin on your face.

I started by taking some basic starting dimensions and then I worked out what 1:8 would mean (as this is the quoted scale of the Ultimate cars and I’d like this to sit alongside). This gave me a 71.1mm / 9 stud tyre diameter which gave me my first decision point.

Bearing in mind my car is on 195/50 R15s I also wanted a decent tyre profile and not a “rubber band”, so this led me to deciding upon 52985 68.7x27S and 56908 43.2x26 Racing Small both from the ‘89 Batmobile. However this then gives me a dilemma that I need some help on. If I use these which are slightly smaller do I keep the scale as 1:8 or change the car scale to match the tyre diameter and so do 1:8.4 instead?

I then built a quick 1:8 scaled box in Stud.io and use the above wheels and when I overlay it I get this. I scaled the images so the wheel size matched which I know is very rough especially as my car isn’t on standard wheels/tyres but they’re close enough.

So what do people think I should do ? Stick to 1:8 and have “small wheels” or deviate and switch to 1:8.4 and have a slightly smaller model which isn’t to scale with the “Ultimates” ?

Then the big question, and this is where I’m looking to the expert scale Technic builders here, how do you plan your bodywork ? Do you have a specific technique to work out what panels to use or when to use lift arms ?

Oh and finally this will be a VERY slow thread. My Lego time these days is very limited, so don’t expect to see this finished any time soo, think of it as a very slow burn.

 

Edited February 28, 20222 yr by Seasider

Your images did not upload.

3 minutes ago, Hrafn said:

Your images did not upload.

I did the thread on my iPad and then added the images a minute later via my phone so you’ll see them now

Thanks for getting the pics to work.

I would use 1:8.4 scale, because a model with wheels that are too small will look odd; the reverse is not true, as slightly oversized wheels usually look ok.

As well as the wheels, lay a couple of other "hard stop" parts on your image, for example the wheel arches. I guess you'd use the ones from the Ferrari for this? They may already tell you whether the scale is 1:8 or 1:8.4.

One problem you'll have with that choice of wheel and tyre: they're on old school rims without the offset of Land Rover or UCS wheels. Unless you do something clever with the steering, you'll have them flapping about in the wheel arches, and you'll maybe need limited steering for it not to rub.

Of course, there's always virtual pivot steering to counteract this, but a) it's not realistic to this car even if the effect is as no dual ball joints and b) it's probably more effort than it's worth for a shelf queen.

@amorti the problem with the Landy option for the wheels and tyres (as you say good offset and still a “thick tyre”) is that this would give me a scale of roughly 1:7.05 which then gives a big issue with the steering wheel where I’d need something 6.4 studs in diameter.

I haven’t had any other thoughts about the bodywork or what parts I may want to use in the bodywork may define the scale.

the headlights may be an issue but having a 3 stud diameter lamp instead of a 2.5 I don’t think will be an issue

 

6 minutes ago, Seasider said:

@amorti the problem with the Landy option for the wheels and tyres (as you say good offset and still a “thick tyre”) is that this would give me a scale of roughly 1:7.05 which then gives a big issue with the steering wheel where I’d need something 6.4 studs in diameter.

 I haven’t had any other thoughts about the bodywork or what parts I may want to use in the bodywork may define the scale.

 the headlights may be an issue but having a 3 stud diameter lamp instead of a 2.5 I don’t think will be an issue

  

Looks like oh... about 6.4 studs diameter :)

Might even look like a steering wheel, with a coat hanger piece attached.

edit: ignore me, those holes aren't 2M apart, they're 1.5M apart.

Edited February 28, 20222 yr by amorti

I’d try to do a compromise… by making a 1:8,2 car with only slightly too small wheels (1:8,4)…

 

1:1 Car Length: 3950 Millimetres; 493,75 Studs

1:8,0 Car Length: 494 Millimetres; 61,71 Studs

1:8,2 Car Length: 481 Millimetres; 60,21 Studs

1:8,4 Car Length: 470 Millimetres; 58,78 Studs

 

1:1 Wheel dia: 577 Millimetres; 72,12 Studs

1:8,0 Wheel dia: 72,12 Millimetres; 9,01 Studs

1:8,2 Wheel dia: 70,36 Millimetres; 8,79 Studs

1:8,4 Wheel dia: 68,69 Millimetres; 8,58 Studs

 

You’ll be only 1,5 studs off of the 1:8 car in length (at a 60 studs long car)… and your wheel arches can be closer to the real thing and give the smaller wheel more room to actually move around.

I like the idea for this project! By all accounts, this car is heaps of fun, cheap, reliable, and good on gas--kind of the ideal sports car. Despite this, I've never seen a large MOC of one, so it'll be good to see it. I also don't think I've seen those tires on a car MOC yet, so it'll be cool to see how they look.

Oooh, this is one that I will follow with interest. As the proud owner of a MX-5 (B) I am very curious to see this coming together. Currently I have too much of a backlog to start one myself, but even when I had time I've always been a bit scared to take this car on because of it's subtle curves. That will be hard to replicate. So hats off to you sir for trying.

I always use the tiresize for the scaling. So all my 1:8 cars are actually 1:8.4-ish cars.

@Seasider does this solution help you?

68.8 x 24 S tire is "filled" with ordinary 62.4 x 20 S truck tire to gain shown diameter and 68.8 tire is not deformed. Overall tire width is 24 studs and overall diameter is 71mm as you can see. I know it is not 72mm but I hope I could help. I don't know if new Vespa tire is useful since Miatas don't have white walls tires.

 

4 hours ago, Jeroen Ottens said:

Oooh, this is one that I will follow with interest.

Same, the NA Miata is definitely one of my favorite sports cars, so I was really excited when I saw this topic. Can't wait!

Haha, here's where all the Miata owners come out of the woodwork. I'm currently restoring a '90 1.6L in red at the moment, so I'm quite excited to see this build as it progresses. Hopefully the model, like the car, can share the ethos of refinement that the Miata is so well known for.

Best of luck and be sure to keep us updated!

16 hours ago, Seasider said:

Racing Small both from the ‘89 Batmobile

Is closer to 225/45R15 .

This will be closer. OK, maybe something closer to 185 for real tire, but I don't think, that those tires will be too fat for this Mazda.

When I build, I'm not aming for some perfect scale, I just put picture in scaler.sariel.pl and scale around chosen tire. If that 1:8 is really close, it could be OK to build then everything according to that scale, I think.

I always use tyre size for scaling (I learnt this the hard way)

So depending if the real car has 19/20/21 inch tyres the scaling is slightly different. You don't notice between models if the scale is slightly different (say one is 1:8 and the other is 1:8.4), but you do notice on an individual model if the wheels aren't in proportion with the bodywork. If the car has different size wheels on the front and back I take the average and use that for scaling. (so 20/21 inch I would scale of 20.5)

The Sian for example isn't 1:8 anyway, its closer to 1:8.4. Take all the real life dimensions, divide by 8 and compare to the model, you will find that its all out. Divide the real life dimensions by 1:8.4 and you'll find they're much closer to the model. Putting 1:8.4 scale on the box just don't sound or look good so they just say otherwise.

As for bodywork, I generally print out the blueprints in the correct scale I'm working (top/side/front/back view). Then you can literally just placed panels on the paper to get an idea of what works and what looks good.

10 minutes ago, langko said:

I always use tyre size for scalIf the car has different size wheels on the front and back I take the average 

This kills me with motorcycles. Most modern bikes have a 120/60-17 on the front (575mm diameter) and either a 180 or 200/55-17 on the rear (630 or 650mm diameter).

I don't know about the new BMW tyres, but even if the width is different, the Ducati tyres have the same diameter, and it's not close IRL.

Actually, it's just occurred that it would be very nearly in scale 1:7 to use the Ducati 94mm rear and 8422's 81.6mm front. Huge difference.

651.8/94.1 = 1:6.93

575.8/81.6 = 1:7.06

Shame the rims would be mismatched when they should be same diameter.

Edited March 1, 20222 yr by amorti

Thanks for all the comments so far, so 1:8.4 scale it is then. I’ve decided to stick to the batmobile wheels & tyres as I think they fit what I want to do with the model (and I’d just bought 4 of them!). @1gor I’m not a fan of “filling” parts to me that feels like an illegal build. @Jurss I did consider them as I have some but they are smaller in overall dia to the ones I’ve opted for and so would be further away from the 1:8 scale.

I’ve gone back to Stud.io and created this so far in the revised scale. I have to say it looks a lot better.

I’ve placed some random blue liftarms to give me an appreciation as to what size the body will be and what sort of space I have to work within.

i think my next step may be to put the engine, steering and suspension in the volume.

@Jeroen Ottens now has me very scared about the bodywork if he thinks it’s a challenge to capture the shape of the car. I’ve got a feeling the whole front end is going to be the big challenge.

@HOONICAN mine is a ‘94 J-Limited II that I had imported from Japan. It’s had quite a few mods both visibly (lowered, led lights) and in its performance (coil overs, engine retune +30bhp).

This model will hopefully mirror my own car to some extent so it will have “style bars” behind the seats.

Great project! When a car question is asked, MX-5 is always the correct answer. I guess we can now apply that to LEGO. I'll watch this project closely, and I hope to see it come together well.

I agree with your decision of the 8.4 scale, and I love those Batmobile tires. I hope the project goes well.

So yes it’s been a long time since I’ve done an update on here, personally I blame @Jim for TC22, but also life and the real Eunos I have that currently has no interior.

Only a minor update but with a problem that I’m not sure how to solve.

So I watched a YouTube video from @nico71 and from that I transferred the blueprint onto my work pc so I could do this.

The wheels and tyres really match well, the wheel to rim ratio looks good and amazingly they’re also about the right width for what I want.

so you’ll see I’ve built a basic frame to get the wheelbase and here is my next problem. I get a half stud in my wheelbase. So do I keep it? Or shorten or lengthen the wheelbase by half a stud?

I’m going to leave designing the chassis and what goes on it till the end, if it’ll just naturally evolve. But first some bodywork, but I’m unsure where to start. I think my plan is to rough something out with flat panels and liftarms to enable me to see it’s size in my hands. Then pick an area of the car and refine it and work like that. Or are there better suggestions from the seasoned Supercar creators ?

I already know the headlight assembly will have to be System built to get a nice thin headlamp cover, the light and the mechanism all done.

who knows when the next update is ? Holidays and putting the interior back in the real MX-5 come first.

1 hour ago, Seasider said:

I get a half stud in my wheelbase. So do I keep it? Or shorten or lengthen the wheelbase by half a stud?

Do not mind about it for now. You will adjust then to +1 or -1 stud (keep the constructions simple) depending of the bodywork you will do. The idea is to fit the bodywork you made using panel etc to your build in a coherent and homogeneous build. If you have a hole to fill, you can shorten the wheelbase for instance, or modify the proportion to have the correct fit of your panels. As long as the perception of the proportions is correct, it is ok. Do not rely at 100% on the blueprint, you can stretch it a bit to match the perfect build in Lego, as the model is scale down.

1 hour ago, Seasider said:

I think my plan is to rough something out with flat panels and liftarms to enable me to see it’s size in my hands. Then pick an area of the car and refine it and work like that. Or are there better suggestions from the seasoned Supercar creators ?

This is exactly what I do. Start by the easy shape is the best to do for me. You start with the shape that you see flat and/or horizontal/vertical because there are easy to build (panel, beam) and easy to connect to the chassis (connector). Then you will have a good appreciation of the model, with the proportion and how many space you have between the elements. So you can then refine them as long as you proceed the more difficult elements.

For this one for instance you can start by the doors, trunk and hood, maybe windshield which is an important element which will help you to position the other elements. And then finish with the more difficult elements, such as wheel arch, front parts, and the seams between every surface.

I think you see my video about building the chassis of the Western Truck, where I talk about use blueprint and scaling. I will release the next episode about the bodywork, so I think you will be interested it, because what I have written above is what I explain in the video, with a visual demonstration on the Lego truck. 👍

@nico71 yes I watched your snow runner video 😎 and I’m waiting for the bodywork one to see how you tackle it.

Seeing what you’ve written above reassures me that I’m working along the right lines for the bodywork. Expect a potential update from me here in a month or so … told you all this would be a slow burn !

On 2/28/2022 at 2:55 PM, Seasider said:

So what do people think I should do ? Stick to 1:8 and have “small wheels” or deviate and switch to 1:8.4 and have a slightly smaller model which isn’t to scale with the “Ultimates” ?

Then the big question, and this is where I’m looking to the expert scale Technic builders here, how do you plan your bodywork ? Do you have a specific technique to work out what panels to use or when to use lift arms ?

You should base your calculations on the width of the car which is an odd number, resulting in the proportional height and length. Usually rounded off you come up to 27 studs in a normal car and 29 in a sportscar. The "UCS" supercars used to have too small wheels for the exact 1/8 scale and in relation to the wheelareches. Now with the Daytona we got the cool wheels with the better 11 studs diameter. My 1/8.5 scaled cars look kinda small next to it, it´s kinda Frank Zane next to Arnold .

Don´t plan your bodywork, just visualize it all the time. Be patient and elaborate a solid chassis which is literally the base for a beautiful looking body. Make it as compact as you can, fit all the mechanisms first. That will ensure you will have enough space between chassis and outer shell to fit the attachments. E.g. find the main spots for headlights and try to work around them with parts that make the eyes and face recognizeable. Having the full blueprints at hand helps you to keep within the outer lines. Then, after completing the chassis, make the roof. After that start from the bottom line of the car. Try to lay over bigger panels to cover big surfaces and naturally adapt to the angles and edges with minimal deviations as possible, then work around them with minimal beams usage to bridge over. Stacking beams was 10 years ago, but then we didn´t have this variety of panels. Don´t compromise the final position where you want the panel exactly to be and seek for the way to connect it to the surroundings. You could add a stud at the wheelbase which is a cool trick in order to visually compensate inevitable bulks and bumps all over the place. 

Keep your vision, break the rules !

Its been over 6 months since I posted here and as I was updating my TC24 thread I thought I’d post pictures of where I got to.

the model I last posted progressed into this, some random panels to give me a basic form to visualise, you’ll also notice a load of axles along the centreline. These gave me a rough profile for the car.

From this I then did these.

trying to work out the position of the engine relative to the front axle (right - blue pin is axle z position) and steering wheel to engine.

And the last I got to was this …

A rough layout including steering in the right location.

the project then stalled at this stage as I’m trying to work out how to solve the popup headlamp problem.

I won’t be picking this up again until after TC24

The chassis's looking good so far. Good for you for not forgetting about this project. It's nice to see some of the older short suspension arms in use.