10305 Lion Knights' Castle 90th anniversary set

[Lion King]

11 hours ago, TeriXeri said:

I personally don't think there should be a skeleton if LEGO intends to keep it era-appropriate, a Ghost would be a much better fit, and also hasn't been made in a long time, LEGO has been making quite a bit glow in the dark recently again (especially Monkie Kid Lady Bone Demon sets and figures)

The way you say about skeleton, it sounds like this 90th annvieary set is for kids instead of 18+ set? I think skeleton and ghost fit nicely in castle era. 

As for ghost, I agree. It has not been made for so long time. And Fairground’s Haunted Manison was a small bummer - it doesn’t have any classical ghosts - only ghosts with white hoods and skirts in that set. 

EDIT: We don’t know age range on the set but i Think this set doe target AFOL, based on the price.

Edited March 25, 2022 by DBlegonerd7
Typo and grmmar

[Triceron]

Have there been many $350 kids sets?  Just curious.

I'm hoping for an AFOL targetted set, considering we're talking about sets from the 80's and 90's.

[zoth33]

22 minutes ago, Triceron said:

Have there been many $350 kids sets?  Just curious.

I'm hoping for an AFOL targetted set, considering we're talking about sets from the 80's and 90's.

Can't think of any really.  This shouldn't be a kids set.  Should be a nice big model that's made for adults.  Really can't wait to see this hopefully by July.  So many great sets have came out this past  year and coming this year.  

[ForgedInLego]

59 minutes ago, Triceron said:

Have there been many $350 kids sets?  Just curious.

I'm hoping for an AFOL targetted set, considering we're talking about sets from the 80's and 90's.

I'm guessing it will be on the same level as the blacksmith, just larger and, ya know, a castle. 

[Maple]

It's a big castle. People saying this or that won't fit. It's a big castle. Castle had skeletons. 

[Triceron]

I really hope it doesn't have skeletons.  They're so cheap and readily available, and I'd hate for them to count towards their 'minifigure' budget.

I mean you even get 2 Skeletons in the Monkie Kid underwater polybag.

[MAB]

12 hours ago, TeriXeri said:

Wolfpack cowl was last used 2016 so still fairly recent.

They could easily use one of the couple of different hoods for Wolfpack and I'd be fine with it, if it means they do an updated torso like for Black Falcons.

10 hours ago, TeriXeri said:

I don't think there's a whole lot of demand for regular skeletons either, as often they aren't even counted as minifigs by AFOL, in sets like the 3-in-1 Pirate ship or Castle for example.

Strictly it is LEGO that doesn't count skeletons as minifigures, much like droids, as they don't contain minifigure parts. Take a look at the 3-in-1 Pirate description, they only mention three minifigures. So AFOLs not counting them is not that surprising. Although I like my skeleton army!

 

9 hours ago, Triceron said:

Have there been many $350 kids sets?  Just curious.

I'm hoping for an AFOL targetted set, considering we're talking about sets from the 80's and 90's.

That depends what you mean by a kid's set. The Death Star and Cloud City is 14+ and richer kids have them. The microscale Hogwarts is 16+ but again richer kids have it. The Disney train is $330 so almost there (and probably would be if it was released today).

[Lion King]

4 hours ago, Triceron said:

I really hope it doesn't have skeletons.  They're so cheap and readily available, and I'd hate for them to count towards their 'minifigure' budget.

I mean you even get 2 Skeletons in the Monkie Kid underwater polybag.

Well, skeleton is really cheap and I do agree with @MAB above here. 

And I hope this set does target AFOL too.

[Sandbag58]

I'm really looking forwards to this set but a couple of thoughts have been rattling around inside my head.

As an anniversary set for specifically Castle I am expecting a lot of references to previous factions. One obvious way would be through several knights attending a tourney, but this might mean we get Cedric the Bull facing a Lion knight champion rather than another Black Falcon. However, the referencing could be through a Guarded Inn homage, maybe called The Bull Inn or The Wolfpack Tavern, for example.

Might the Jelly Beans make a re-appearance somewhere? They are part of Castle history (not that I'd miss them if they were not referenced at all - my Dark Ages wonderfully coincided with the abomination which was the Jelly Bean era though I know it has its fans).

This castle will have to include a Forestman/woman or two...it HAS to. Wolfpack would be welcome aswell and I would love some other peasants/merchants.

This is also an anniversary set for 90 years of LEGO, not just Castle, so do we think there might be inclusions/references for/to other Themes and if so, how? The LEGO Movie set a good precedent for mashing Themes together (which my children have taken to heart but which still upsets my OCD!). Could it be along the lines of 1592...in terms of a basic concept, ie a castle at the heart of a LEGO-wide celebration (renaissance fayre-esque)? I'm not sure how I feel about this as it would result in the castle element being diluted which would be a shame but I could understand the logic if that's the way it goes.

[Follows Closely]

We may have just gotten a look at what the box may look like: "90 Years of Play"

[BTappel]

This set comes out within 5 months.  How long before release do leaked pictures usually come out?  

I would guess a ghost vs a skeleton as a homage to classic sets but its not a deal breaker either way.  If they include jelly bean knights, that would be a deal breaker.  I dont think they will include anything other than old factions and certainly not make this set a hodgepodge of different themes.  That would be heresy!

[Triceron]

5 hours ago, Sandbag58 said:

I'm really looking forwards to this set but a couple of thoughts have been rattling around inside my head.

As an anniversary set for specifically Castle I am expecting a lot of references to previous factions. One obvious way would be through several knights attending a tourney, but this might mean we get Cedric the Bull facing a Lion knight champion rather than another Black Falcon. However, the referencing could be through a Guarded Inn homage, maybe called The Bull Inn or The Wolfpack Tavern, for example.

Might the Jelly Beans make a re-appearance somewhere? They are part of Castle history (not that I'd miss them if they were not referenced at all - my Dark Ages wonderfully coincided with the abomination which was the Jelly Bean era though I know it has its fans).

This castle will have to include a Forestman/woman or two...it HAS to. Wolfpack would be welcome aswell and I would love some other peasants/merchants.

This is also an anniversary set for 90 years of LEGO, not just Castle, so do we think there might be inclusions/references for/to other Themes and if so, how? The LEGO Movie set a good precedent for mashing Themes together (which my children have taken to heart but which still upsets my OCD!). Could it be along the lines of 1592...in terms of a basic concept, ie a castle at the heart of a LEGO-wide celebration (renaissance fayre-esque)? I'm not sure how I feel about this as it would result in the castle element being diluted which would be a shame but I could understand the logic if that's the way it goes.

Cedric the Bull came in an unfortunate time.  A little too late after the whole Ninja theme made a clear separation from them and the Castle sets of the 80's-90's.  I'd definitely entered my Dark Ages by the time Ninja theme came around.  I personally don't consider Knights Kingdom to be part of the classic Castle theme of the 90's, but that's just me.  I ended up getting a couple aftermarket figures for my collection, but I don't hold any nostalgia for them at all.

Jellybeans I'm guessing you're talking about the colorful bunch in Knights Kingdom 2?  I personally hope this castle just stays a 90's era Castle and keep those subthemes out.  Nothing against them personally but they're a bit out of place with the Crusaders, Black Falcons and Forestmen of old.  I'd prefer more room open for Forestmen, new peasants/merchants, and Wolfpack as you mentioned.

I wouldn't mind if the other subthemes get some recognition through easter eggs, like how Barracuda Bay has tons of little references to the wider Pirates line.  But nothing as far as the reference to everything Lego.  I get that this is a 90th anniversary celebration, but I'm with you in feeling it'd would get diluted by throwing all that stuff in.  I mean, we already have those kind of references in other modern themed sets, like the mini Lego store in Monkie Kid City of Lanterns, or the references that pop up ever so often in Ninjago like return of Clutch Powers.

[TeriXeri]

I also hope it won't be a full mix of every castle theme ever made.

The 1984-1992 era makes the most sense as that's the first and last time both Crusader and Falcon factions were produced.

Edited March 25, 2022 by TeriXeri

[Lion King]

I see a mention of “jelly beans” a few times here and I don’t get it? 

[TeriXeri]

15 minutes ago, DBlegonerd7 said:

I see a mention of “jelly beans” a few times here and I don’t get it? 

It's a reference to the 2004-2006 Knight's Kingdom era , where the team of 4 knights had names and bright colored suits in red, green, medium blue, purple.

Edited March 25, 2022 by TeriXeri

[zoth33]

55 minutes ago, DBlegonerd7 said:

I see a mention of “jelly beans” a few times here and I don’t get it? 

As @TeriXeri said above they look like jelly beans you would get around easter time hence the name because of the pastel colored knights.  I was not a fan although the light blue with the wide brimmed helms(Jayko) weren't that bad and could be usable in certain fantasy settings.  Vladek  with the scorpion knight were good figs.  But for the most part the theme was poorly received and the figs weren't good as a whole with only a few good ones.  

[SirBlake]

1 hour ago, TeriXeri said:

I also hope it won't be a full mix of every castle theme ever made.

The 1984-1992 era makes the most sense as that's the first and last time both Crusader and Falcon factions were produced.

Agreed. There's a rich history in just the first 10-15 years of castle. No need to cram it full of everything.

Going the other way though, I could totally dig a modern take on the old classic look like this:

[Triceron]

I liked the idea of Knights Kingdom 2 having different knights of different emblems, but I expected more Knights of the Round table while they went Ninja Power Rangers.

I'm a sucker for the new shields and knights of the CMF series, and those make sense to me.  A Bear shield, a Crow shield, a Tree emblem, even the odd Snowflake all makes sense.  But I'll never understand why they choose a Monkey for Knights Kingdom.  The emblem looks so off for any fantasy setting.

[zoth33]

18 hours ago, Triceron said:

I liked the idea of Knights Kingdom 2 having different knights of different emblems, but I expected more Knights of the Round table while they went Ninja Power Rangers.

I'm a sucker for the new shields and knights of the CMF series, and those make sense to me.  A Bear shield, a Crow shield, a Tree emblem, even the odd Snowflake all makes sense.  But I'll never understand why they choose a Monkey for Knights Kingdom.  The emblem looks so off for any fantasy setting.

Unless you use the monkey shied for an army of monkey warriors from the current Monkie Kid line.  There are several iterations of the Monkey King himself to make different characters.   The new evil Monkeys look fantastic and I'm trying to build and army of hell monkeys.  

[Aanchir]

On 3/24/2022 at 8:18 PM, DBlegonerd7 said:

The way you say about skeleton, it sounds like this 90th annvieary set is for kids instead of 18+ set? I think skeleton and ghost fit nicely in castle era. 

As for ghost, I agree. It has not been made for so long time. And Fairground’s Haunted Manison was a small bummer - it doesn’t have any classical ghosts - only ghosts with white hoods and skirts in that set. 

EDIT: We don’t know age range on the set but i Think this set doe target AFOL, based on the price.

Even before a single vote was cast, the LEGO Ideas poll stated that it was "a single new product for the 2022 LEGO Adult Portfolio", so I think we can say with confidence that it won't be geared towards KFOLs.

That said, some AFOL-oriented sets DO include more KFOL-oriented secondary builds so that adults with children of their own can build the sets together as a family. For example, the Winter Village Collection sets' instructions are often split between a smaller booklet that includes some of the simpler, more kid-friendly side builds and a larger booklet for the main structure of the set.

Even if LEGO were to do something along those lines for this set, the set as a whole would still be AFOL-targeted. But that doesn't necessarily rule out features that might not seem entirely "serious" or "realistic", because even adults can often enjoy when sets include cute and quirky details or references!

On another note, even if the set is a Lion Knight/Crusader castle, it may still include references to subsequent Castle sets and themes. After all, all sorts of Castle subthemes earned a lot of support from AFOLs in the fan vote. And for comparison's sake, even though the main build of Pirates of Barracuda Bay was based on a 1989 set, it still included references to later Pirates sets and figures, such as a statue based on the 1995 Islanders sets and a couple characters inspired by pirate minifigures from the 1996 sets.

On 3/25/2022 at 4:35 PM, Triceron said:

I'm a sucker for the new shields and knights of the CMF series, and those make sense to me.  A Bear shield, a Crow shield, a Tree emblem, even the odd Snowflake all makes sense.  But I'll never understand why they choose a Monkey for Knights Kingdom.  The emblem looks so off for any fantasy setting.

I suspect the Knights' Kingdom 2 heraldry was designed to fit the characters' archetypes/personalities, not the other way around. The original four knights were a young hero eager to dive right into danger (Jayko the Quick), a burly knight who served as the team's protector and muscle (Santis the Strong), an older veteran knight who served as the team's mentor (Danju the Wise), and an athletic, rambunctious "noble trickster" character (Rascus the Clever). As such, their heraldry was based on creatures that represented those physical attributes and personality traits.

And monkeys and apes HAVE been used as medieval heraldic charges (albeit rare ones) as far back as the 14th century. There were probably many more common real-world heraldic charges that could have been chosen to represent Rascus instead of a monkey (such as a raven, fox, or squirrel, which are also commonly associated with "trickster" characters). But I suspect the designers felt a raven or fox would have been too similar to the hawk and wolf they'd chosen for Jayko and Danju, whereas a squirrel might not have been considered "cool" or "aggressive" enough for its target audience.

Let's not forget, Knights' Kingdom 2 was heavily boy-targeted — there wasn't a single female character in its entire run aside from the good and evil queen that they made up for the chess sets. That was one of my biggest frustrations with the theme even as a kid (along with the lack of buildable horses for the action figure sets), even though I otherwise loved the bright-colored heroes, mystical lore, and fantasy design elements.

Knights' Kingdom 2 also changed a lot over the course of its development, as you can read on illustrator and concept artist Mike Rayhawk's site — the working title was "LEGO FUTURE KNIGHTS", and it was intended to have a Saturday morning cartoon style science-fantasy blend much like Masters of the Universe. Accordingly, it was replete with stuff like animal-shaped transforming castles and armor with heavily stylized futuristic contours. And much later themes in that genre like Legends of Chima, Ninjago, and Nexo Knights, it was aimed at older kids than traditional LEGO castle products. But as development went on, it was steered towards a more typical medieval fantasy setting and a more typical 6+ target age.

Perhaps if the theme had remained closer to how it was originally envisioned, Rascus's monkey emblem would have felt less out of place. On an earlier version of Mike Rayhawk's site, you can see various early concepts for the theme's setting, and Rascus's whimsical baboon-shaped woodland castle certainly feels like a more natural fit for the character's heraldry than a more traditional medieval castle does!

EDIT: Actually, come to think of it, I'm pretty sure the scorpion representing Vladek and his shadow knights is a rarer and more modern heraldic charge than monkeys. After all, monkeys at least were respected as a fascinating exotic novelty when first introduced to medieval Europe by Italian merchants — imagine being a medieval lord and being presented with an animal that resembles a beastly mockery of humankind, which speaks in comical shrieks and is as comfortable on four legs as on two!

By comparison, to medieval Europeans, scorpions were just thought of as a particularly nasty, irritable, and treacherous bug — not the sort of thing a lot of noble houses would be lining up to identify with! Even among animal charges with similar connotations, animals such as the crab, lobster, and crayfish were more frequently used in medieval heraldry.

On 3/25/2022 at 2:35 PM, TeriXeri said:

I also hope it won't be a full mix of every castle theme ever made.

The 1984-1992 era makes the most sense as that's the first and last time both Crusader and Falcon factions were produced.

I mean, I don't see much reason to think it'd be a full mix, but I wouldn't mind at all if they included references to other 90s castle themes and characters. It'd be very fun to see graphical references to characters like Majisto the wizard, Willa the witch, and the LEGO Castle dragon (e.g. as illustrations in a book or on a stained glass window memorializing a legendary tale of heroism), even if they aren't actually included as characters!

And if LEGO did choose to create a new "King" character for the Lion Knights/Crusaders, there's no reason they couldn't take some inspiration from the Royal King from 1995 — particularly since in some countries' marketing, the Crusaders and Royal Knights were treated as two incarnations of the same faction (like Blacktron 1 and 2), and the leaders of the two factions as pre- and post-coronation versions of the same character.

Edited March 26, 2022 by Aanchir

[Sandbag58]

I agree with Aanchir:

"I mean, I don't see much reason to think it'd be a full mix, but I wouldn't mind at all if they included references to other 90s castle themes and characters. It'd be very fun to see graphical references to characters like Majisto the wizard, Willa the witch, and the LEGO Castle dragon (e.g. as illustrations in a book or on a stained glass window memorializing a legendary tale of heroism), even if they aren't actually included as characters!"

This is probably the most efficient way to commemorate more key factions/characters.

There have been several great MOCs over the years of banquets in Great Halls with different factions coming together to feast and celebrate...might we get something along those lines? Is the piece count high enough to provide room for a Great Hall or Throne Room? If it was, this would mean 6 (?) minifigs from different factions feasting, the king and queen/princess hosting, a couple of guards, 3 or 4 servants/cooks plus 2 or 3 minstrels/bards &c and a couple of Forestmen trying to gatecrash...!

Edited March 28, 2022 by Sandbag58
Deleting unnecessary quote boxes

[svede]

On 3/28/2022 at 5:46 AM, Sandbag58 said:

There have been several great MOCs over the years of banquets in Great Halls with different factions coming together to feast and celebrate...might we get something along those lines? Is the piece count high enough to provide room for a Great Hall or Throne Room? If it was, this would mean 6 (?) minifigs from different factions feasting, the king and queen/princess hosting, a couple of guards, 3 or 4 servants/cooks plus 2 or 3 minstrels/bards &c and a couple of Forestmen trying to gatecrash...!

The end of your description reminded me fondly of this scene from LEGO Idea Book 260:

It would be really cool to get a modern interpretation of this with civilian influences from Medieval Market Village / Mill Village Raid.

Oh and I really want at least 1 Wolfpack soldier.... truth be told, I want a Wolfpack knight, but I know that is wishful thinking since they tend to be outlaws in traditional LEGO sets.

 

Edited March 29, 2022 by svede

[SirBlake]

That's an interesting idea. I personally have a lineup of a single knight and squire for each faction, even those that don't necessarily warrant such a thing, like Wolf Pack and Forestmen. Basically, if there's a shield for it, I've made a knight to bear it.

[Lion King]

I just remember but it’s pretty hazy to remember much details - did a leaked pic of something but there was a classical foresman in green (in background) in it - I could not remember which image since it was about two months ago or so.  Was a classical forestman the int for Lion King’s Castle?

probably I misremember…. So please don’t take it seriously. 

[Classic_Spaceman]

24 minutes ago, DBlegonerd7 said:

I just remember but it’s pretty hazy to remember much details - did a leaked pic of something but there was a classical foresman in green (in background) in it - I could not remember which image since it was about two months ago or so.  Was a classical forestman the int for Lion King’s Castle?

probably I misremember…. So please don’t take it seriously. 

There are two Minifigs in the DeLorean announcement video that have what appears to be an updated version of the classic red Forestmen torso.