10305 Lion Knights' Castle 90th anniversary set

[cehnot]

Our store didn't get any of these parts and I debated on ordering them from bricklink, but this may mean that LEGO decided to reprint them or have more than enough to include them in the online ordering. I hope they ha e them when the site opens up in the USA. I would find it interesting if they decide to use the torso and shield in their new set since they are only BAM options right now. 

[timemail]

2 hours ago, cehnot said:

I checked UK website and it now allows you to build a minifiruew with new castle parts. I don't know if I can purchase it from the USA. 

Thanks for the heads up.

Hopefully that comes to Australia soon. They were not available here that I am aware of, and I need to get a couple of dozen of each of them I think.

Edited April 13, 2022 by timemail

[Alexandrina]

3 hours ago, cehnot said:

I checked UK website and it now allows you to build a minifiruew with new castle parts

Ooh I shall definitely be having a looksee on here next month, when I can justify buying more Lego direct from them!

(A pity this didn't launch three days ago when I placed a sizable Bricks & Pieces order and talked myself into spending £100 on the moonbase set for free postage)

[unclejeffie]

Mmm wonder how long it will take untill the shields will be sold out

[DaleDVM]

I got about 20 of the shields last year with BAM here at the LEGO stores in my area.  I built the minis with that same dark green chainmail torso in the photo and at that time there were matching dark green legs too.  I am surprised those are still in TLGs inventory of parts.

Concerning the raised baseplates...  Since I own multiple copies of every raised baseplate ever made for castle sets, I can tell you owning them is IMHO overrated.  Not many AFOLs build with them and they don't look good with detailed MOCs of todays standards sitting on them. 

However, for storage, most of them are the same shape and stack neatly together so as not to take up too much space.  I would not sell them separately since when I shuffle off of this earth, my family can sell the 100% complete castle sets for a much better price.  Someday, someone with a lot of money could own the entire LEGO castle collection several times over in one huge purchase... Raised baseplates, discolored bricks, minifigs and all...

[Follows Closely]

Along the lines of setting expectations. I think it may be helpful to look at castles (mocs and sets) that contain a piece count between 3,000-5,000.

The most obvious place to start is the Löwenstein Castle with Official Expansion. The Löwenstein Castle has 2002 parts and the expansion contains 1,627 parts; bringing the total to 3,629. Which is, I hope, on the lower end of the piece count for 10305. Some say that Löwenstein is not minifig scale, however in reality every castle set produced to date is not minifig scale. The closest we have come to minifig scale is 21325 : Medieval Blacksmith, more on that later. At this scale LEGO could produce a very realistic castle that pulls from many previous models. I would buy this, but I am expecting more.

The most recent castle 31120: Medieval Castle has only 1,426 pieces. We would need to combine 3+ sets to get an idea of what 10305 may look like in size. DownUnder Bricks has done exactly this. The three sets combined contain 4,278 pieces, however the video explains that the moc below contains around 3,300 pieces, give or take. Once again, I would buy it, but I am expecting more than a simple square symmetric castle.

Another interesting comparison would be a few 21325: Medieval Blacksmith sets. This set has 2,164 pieces. Three combined would get us to 6,492 pieces and an MSRP of $550.00. That is not realistic. So two combined would be 4,328 pieces and a $300 msrp. That is closer to what we should expect (maybe another 500 pieces tops).

However, the scale of the Blacksmith shop does not fit with any of the rest of the Medieval sets. In reality, this set looks out of place next to any other official Medieval set. The picture below contains the higher end of the combined piece count we can expect from this set.

Finally we can turn to the Ideas platform. The platform is limited to 3,000 pieces, which once again is at the lower end of reasonable expectations for this castle set.

THE KING'S CASTLE - 2920 parts:

 

CASTLE OF BRICKWOOD FOREST - 3,000 pieces

CASTLE OF LORD AFOL AND THE BLACK KNIGHTS - 3000 Pieces

THE MEDIEVAL FORTRESS (CASTLE) - 3,000 Pieces

If the 90th Anniversary Set matches or exceeds any of the above castles, I will not be disappointed.

Edited April 13, 2022 by Follows Closely

[SirBlake]

What a great, info-packed post!

This is great fuel for daydreaming about what’s headed our way. I’m expecting something similar to the Ideas submissions you’ve included. Any of which I would be pleased to add to my collection. 

[RichardGoring]

18 minutes ago, Follows Closely said:

Some say that Löwenstein is not minifig scale, however in reality every castle set produced to date is not minifig scale. The closest we have come to minifig scale is 21325 : Medieval Blacksmith, more on that later.

If the 90th Anniversary Set matches or exceeds any of the above castles, I will not be disappointed.

I really like the Medieval Blacksmith set, but you're right, it's far too large compared to all other similar sets, so makes them feel small in comparison. I have pondered whether it's feasible to reduce it to 70-80% of the size so that it's a bit more in proportion with other sets, while still keeping the detail.

I agree that if we get something like the ideas you've highlighted, it will be really cool.

[morvit]

32 minutes ago, Follows Closely said:

Along the lines of setting expectations. I think it may be helpful to look at castles (mocs and sets) that contain a piece count between 3,000-5,000.

The most obvious place to start is the Löwenstein Castle with Official Expansion. The Löwenstein Castle has 2002 parts and the expansion contains 1,627 parts; bringing the total to 3,629. Which is, I hope, on the lower end of the piece count for 10305. Some say that Löwenstein is not minifig scale, however in reality every castle set produced to date is not minifig scale. The closest we have come to minifig scale is 21325 : Medieval Blacksmith, more on that later. At this scale LEGO could produce a very realistic castle that pulls from many previous models. I would buy this, but I am expecting more.

The most recent castle 31120: Medieval Castle has only 1,426 pieces. We would need to combine 3+ sets to get an idea of what 10305 may look like in size. DownUnder Bricks has done exactly this. The three sets combined contain 4,278 pieces, however the video explains that the moc below contains around 3,300 pieces, give or take. Once again, I would buy it, but I am expecting more than a simple square symmetric castle.

Another interesting comparison would be a few 21325: Medieval Blacksmith sets. This set has 2,164 pieces. Three combined would get us to 6,492 pieces and an MSRP of $550.00. That is not realistic. So two combined would be 4,328 pieces and a $300 msrp. That is closer to what we should expect (maybe another 500 pieces tops).

However, the scale of the Blacksmith shop does not fit with any of the rest of the Medieval sets. In reality, this set looks out of place next to any other official Medieval set. The picture below contains the higher end of the combined piece count we can expect from this set.

Finally we can turn to the Ideas platform. The platform is limited to 3,000 pieces, which once again is at the lower end of reasonable expectations for this castle set.

THE KING'S CASTLE - 2920 parts:

 

CASTLE OF BRICKWOOD FOREST - 3,000 pieces

CASTLE OF LORD AFOL AND THE BLACK KNIGHTS - 3000 Pieces

THE MEDIEVAL FORTRESS (CASTLE) - 3,000 Pieces

If the 90th Anniversary Set matches or exceeds any of the above castles, I will not be disappointed.

I would be happy with any of the last 4 pictures. Previous disappointments from Lego have set my expectations for this set lower than these 4 however. 

[Follows Closely]

39 minutes ago, RichardGoring said:

I really like the Medieval Blacksmith set, but you're right, it's far too large compared to all other similar sets, so makes them feel small in comparison. I have pondered whether it's feasible to reduce it to 70-80% of the size so that it's a bit more in proportion with other sets, while still keeping the detail.

[Aanchir]

On 4/11/2022 at 5:55 PM, SirBlake said:

Considering that two of the best old castles (King's Mountain Fortress & Black Knight's Castle) use a raised baseplate, I totally agree. That said, I think it would be tough to fit $350 worth of bricks on a raised baseplate, lol. At least, not on that cool ramp one that those others are built on.

Yeah, raised baseplates certainly have a lot of charm, but they also have a lot of drawbacks compared to more custom raised foundations (including BURP-based ones):

• Flat surfaces that rely on set-specific prints/stickers to represent differently textured or colored details like rocky outcroppings, cobblestone paths, waterways, etc.
   
• A fixed size and shape that tends to play a big role in determining the size and shape of whatever sets are built on them.
   
• Thick, impenetrable cliffs that cut down on space for dungeons, caves, tunnels/secret passages, etc.
  .
• A high cost that tends to dramatically increases the price of sets that include them.
   
• In many cases, a tendency to break when stepped on (which contributes to their scarcity in the aftermarket).
   
• Semi-enclosed pits/dungeons that can be difficult to reach into compared to the interiors of traditional hinged and/or modular castles — I can't tell you how often as a child I dropped small parts like minifigure accessories into the dungeon of 6076, and had a hard time getting them out even with my then child-sized hands!

As such, even if raised baseplates were still in use in KFOL-targeted sets, I don't think they'd be a particularly appropriate choice for a premium, adult-targeted set like this one. There have been many recent sets (such as Castle in the Forest, Skull Sorcerer's Dungeons, Ninja Dojo Temple, Flower Fruit Mountain, etc) that show how effectively modern parts and building techniques can be used to construct hilly/mountainous terrain without so many of the drawbacks you'd get with a preformed raised baseplate — especially in sets targeted at older kids and/or adults.

And in general, I'd rather see designers push the boundaries of what they can do today that might not have been feasible in Castle sets of the 80s or 90s (whether due to the parts palette of the time, the design philosophy of the time, or just the target age of conventional Castle playsets) than constrain themselves too heavily to the sorts of parts and techniques that were the norm back then.

As much as I love a good throwback, I think it's best when the end result attempts to surpass the old-school sets that inspired it, especially since that often helps it come closer to the idealized vision of those older sets that our childhood imaginations and nostalgic memories often conjure up for us.

I think one good example is the updated Black Seas Barracuda from Pirates of Barracuda Bay. Its proportions, color scheme, and general motifs stay remarkably true to the original ship from 1989, but the revamp also includes numerous improvements to the ship's detail and historical authenticity. Some of the improvements include greater use of curved elements, meticulously angled sub-assemblies towards the stern, an increased number of gunports, and elaborate custom builds for the masts, spars, and capstan.

[RichardGoring]

20 minutes ago, Follows Closely said:

Oh, there you go. Of course someone has already done this. Looks great, thanks!

[Yoggington]

22 hours ago, Alexandrina said:

If that was the case, surely they'd have retired the Xtra baseplates too, rather than releasing them again in new packaging?

There's no reason modular and baseplate have to be incompatible imo. Imagine if we had a central keep on a raised baseplate, but outer areas of the set (walls, moat, village, etc.) on separate baseplates, with a series of connections via hinge or Technic pin. It could work imo.

I had read something about this too, but now that I search, I cannot find it.

Best I've got is this article; https://www.pnltc.org/thats-why-lego-ditched-its-classic-baseplates-in-the-2021-city-sets/ which cites the design team talking about needing to fit sets into smaller boxes being one of the reasons for the overhaul. Which is a far step from changing the plastic, but does have some environmental links.

[Aanchir]

8 minutes ago, Follows Closely said:

https://www.reddit.com/r/lego/comments/qq7rly/moc_work_in_progress_of_a_smaller_scale_medieval/

Whoa, that's a neat MOC project! Unfortunately, it seems to showcase just how much detail the gables, doors, windows, and walls lose at a reduced scale like this, and it also seems like the interior would be really, really cramped (much as the exterior staircase is in the images shown).

Truth be told, I kind of hope that this new castle looks at least somewhat more appropriately scaled to the Medieval Blacksmith than we're used to from other Castle sets, since LEGO may not have any better opportunity to achieve that than a set with a "premium" price point like this one.

Plus, I'm a big fan of the sort of interior details that the Medieval Blacksmith excelled at — so I would feel a little bummed out if a magnificent royal castle set like this had to settle for simple-looking furnishings and fixtures for interior spaces like the throne room than what was provided in the kitchen and bedroom of a working-class tradesman.

Unfortunately, despite the brilliance of models like the expanded Löwenstein Castle, their interiors are often limited to cramped spaces with austere furnishings, even when compared to some of the single-room "micro-apartments" from the Ninjago City sets. It's a lot less than I'd hope for from the home of a lord or monarch, especially at a TFOL or AFOL level of complexity. And even THAT surpasses the interior furnishings of many KFOL-targeted castles (at least those from the Castle theme itself — castles in other themes like Disney and Elves have often done much better in that regard).

And while I know LEGO designers can create some incredible, well-furnished interiors even in a limited space (as in the case of the aforementioned "micro-apartments"), there's obviously a lot more freedom when you start out with more spacious rooms. Is it any surprise that castle bedrooms, kitchens, and throne rooms with a smaller footprint than a single 8x16 plate struggle to measure up to the interiors of the peasant dwellings from Medieval Market Village?

[zoth33]

@cehnot Where is the BAM online I'm trying to find it is it under some other heading

[Agent Kallus]

11 minutes ago, zoth33 said:

@cehnot Where is the BAM online I'm trying to find it is it under some other heading

I found it under the new pick and build menu at the bottom.

[zoth33]

3 minutes ago, Agent Kallus said:

I found it under the new pick and build menu at the bottom.

OK thanks

[BTappel]

On 4/11/2022 at 7:32 PM, DaleDVM said:

If we have to wait another 3 months for photos of this set, I think I may go mad with anticipation...   I know it is no longer likely or TLG policy to do so...  But I would love if they revealed this set at Brickworld Chicago.  They revealed the medieval market village at BW Chicago many years ago.  It is an awesome event!  

I hope you are right!  Looking at all these epic castles is torture.  Appears Brickworld is about 2 months before release so it’s possible.  Personally I was hoping for a sneak peak of the 90th anniversary set 90 days before release!

[Roebuck]

11 hours ago, Follows Closely said:

If the 90th Anniversary Set matches or exceeds any of the above castles, I will not be disappointed.

I am sure Lego will be able to make a great castle for 350$, however as I have said earlier it is the details that matter most to me and I hope they go all out on the minifigs and animals in this set. If I wanted basic castle parts I would just buy 3x of the castle 3 in 1. Now we have the chance of getting a set with lots of livestock and new minifigs for the first time in a decade in the Castle theme so i hope they do not waste the chance

[SirBlake]

Agreed on minifigs for sure. New/updated lion knights and civilian figs are vitally important. 
 

I feel less urgent on the livestock. With the new City farm sets heading our way this summer, we should have plenty of opportunities to load up on more animals. 

[Follows Closely]

^ Same. I do not prioritize animals at all in this set. We have plenty of opportunities to get four legged creatures in many of the other 1,000+ sets available. The castle structure has to be given priority, then figs, then animals if there is any budget left.

[TeriXeri]

Horses should be the only focus on animals in a set like this.

Sure, some other farm animals or a throwback to things like a grey parrot/falcon would be nice but Horses are too iconic to Castle to miss out on and something 3-in-1 theme doesn't provide.

A King's carriage with 2 horses, a king's horse (or rival joust horse), and then some knights would be very nice to see in a big set , 3-4 horses in such a set wouldn't be strange, should at least have 2 minimum to have a joust.

Edited April 14, 2022 by TeriXeri

[Lion King]

Do you realize that Medveval Blacksmith set supposed to include a goat mold originally? However, the desginers claimed the mold is “broken and burned for good”. I really don’t think the goat mold is that buried deep…. I’m sure TLG would resurrect goat one day - in other word, TLG is very very unpredictable. 

Sure, we will have cow, calf, sheep, lamb, pig, piglet, chickens in City’s Farm subtheme this year but no mention of a goat. I think it’s kinda a coincidence for this Lion King’s Castle (just my wild guess, please don’t take it seriously). But good news, we would buy aniamls off Pick a Brick or Bricklink once farm subtheme releases in June. 

However…I don’t think a castle will have a LOT of animals so I’m kinda against Roebuck’s opinion. I think between 3 - 5 aniamls being included in this set along with a more wide range of minifigures is quite fair. But of cours, we don’t have any solid evidence (such as leaked picture or description or how many aniamls/miniatures we will get or how many pieces this set will contain….).

4 hours ago, TeriXeri said:

Horses should be the only focus on animals in a set like this.

Sure, some other farm animals or a throwback to things like a grey parrot/falcon would be nice but Horses are too iconic to Castle to miss out on and something 3-in-1 theme doesn't provide.

A King's carriage with 2 horses, a king's horse (or rival joust horse), and then some knights would be very nice to see in a big set , 3-4 horses in such a set wouldn't be strange, should at least have 2 minimum to have a joust.

Maybe horses are not enough.

[richchie]

On 3/22/2022 at 10:14 PM, AmperZand said:

@richchie, How many pieces are in your castle?

(By the way, your armies and LotR creations are great!  You should avoid exposing your LEGO to sunlight though. Sunlight is not LEGO’s friend.)

Thanks, I do not now how many pieces are in my castle moc, but i think it could bé somewhere between 4000 and. 6000 so the upcomming set could be in my opinion similar size 

 

 

[Lion King]

I mean, yeah horses are purely iconic to Castle theme. But what about rats? Lamb? Sheep? 

With horses alone, this castle may feel not right. A few aniamls will be good enough.