BR89 (90% BB, 10% TLG) and TurnTable (99% TLG)

[Toastie]

Update: I have posted the BR 89 MOD that goes one on one with the turn table MOC presented below in the Community Forum, as per the EB rules:

Update 2022-6-3: This is the video link: (Link only, as there is evil content to be seen)

 

Good evening,

OK, mods, or favorably @JopieK ;) I have a problem (the Houston type thing ).

• Let's assume I have purchased a BB BR89, 10 wide, beautiful original BB design; a display model. For less than 70€ ;)
• Let's further assume, I watched YouTube videos (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dx6zkcSzdDo - only embedded here as link, due to forum regulations), whatever, how to motorize it. Bricked4You is a genius!
• Let's further assume, I learned from him how to do this, but wanted to use TLG's City Hub and - more importantly a tacho (PUp L) motor, to go with speed regulation but not power settings - to let the BR89 slowly negotiate what is in front of her - without loosing speed.
• Let's further assume, I added a color sensor (TLG) to the engine, which "reads" the track.
• Let's further assume, I made a 99% TLG brick built turn table embedded into an IKEA "Lack" shelf - to turn around the BR89, as I don't have any space anymore in my attic to accommodate a full circle of track for this beauty :D.
• Let's further assume, the 3 axles on the BR89 are featuring flanged wheels, but she does negotiate TLG's curved track (OK, lame, I know, @Ben Beneke has done it decades ago with split axles).
• And all that runs automatically on an ESP32/LEGOINO, telling the loco and the table what to do.

My question is: Where do I post this; in TrainTech or the Community Forum?

Best,
Thorsten

Edited June 3, 2022 by Toastie

[HoMa]

Let's assume, I want to see all this.

Let's further assume, I don't mind in which forum here on EB.

Let's further assume, I prefer the train forum because this is the one I bookmarked.

For sure: best regards from

Holger

Edited May 21, 2022 by HoMa

[Toastie]

Good evening Holger,

thank you very much for your reply - more importantly: Very best regards - I hope all is well with you and your family!

Sincerely,
Thorsten

[Murdoch17]

I (personally) think two topics would be appropriate : turntable here in Train Tech, engine in the other forum. A link could added in each referring to the other topic.

Best of both worlds.

[CaL]

Dear Thorsten,
 

let‘s hope you don’t get stoned for admitting you bought a BB model and furthermore admitting you love it…

cheers

 

Carsten

[JopieK]

Haha, seems you are suffering the same illness as TLG @Toastie as they also don't seem to know where to put their train stuff (City, Powered Up, Harry Potter). Custom parts are no issue at all I think. 1000steine has put additional rules for MoC of the month entries of course, but I would say when it contributes to Train Tech and mosts parts are LEGO it would be totally fine.

[XG BC]

7 hours ago, CaL said:

Dear Thorsten,
 

let‘s hope you don’t get stoned for admitting you bought a BB model and furthermore admitting you love it…

cheers

 

Carsten

you only get stoned over on the german doctor brick forum

[zephyr1934]

@Toastie bring it on!

[Ropefish]

I want to see this turn table more then anything, Post em my man.

[Toastie]

OK - this is all your fault

The entire idea of this setup - located about 1.5 m above floor on a sloped wall - is to automatically start up the 10 wide BR 89 to reach full speed, decelerate when close to the turn table, slowly move onto the table, turn the table by 180°, slowly leave the table, go back to the start position, redo the whole thing (as we are now in reverse), and either stop (done) or do this indefinitely. I know, sounds stupid, is fun for me though, particularly as the Crocodile does that as well about 20 cm below the 89 - but it goes only back and forth.

The entire sequence is "color coded", as the 89 has a PUp color sensor on board.   

I will do this as @Murdoch17 has suggested: The BR 89 "Umbau" in the Community Forum - the whole setup focusing on the "turn table" and the engine shuffling back and forth here.

However: Just decided today to put up the IKEA Lack shelf on the sloped wall - man. But: Done (28+°C up there ... I am now re-filling all water I lost with beer(s) - Carlsberg Premium Lager Beer. This causes a slight delay in showing stuff ... here are just three photographs of the turn table, will get this into the clear in the coming days.

Now, I know that a turn table is something very special in the LEGO train world. Nothing as such is happening here. It is simple - but functional, that's all: It turns my 89 by 180°. That's it. And it is built into an IKEA "Lack" shelf - these are 5 cm "thick" and thus can nicely accommodate a turn table . Even better, Lack shelves are just hollow structures - about 0.5 cm thick top and bottom cardboard type panels and in between there are hexagonal structures made from paper nicely supporting the panels. The side panels are 1 cm thick particle boards. 

A couple of notes:

• Table color scheme: Here is to the Yoda set I got as present , I simply don't have other bricks for the looks. Well, the white bricks. And 1x2 and 2x2 LGB_BB tiles ...  
• It automatically finds its starting position by turning on the PUp L motor and looks for the yellow/red color change (photograph #3), then reports that to the ESP32.
• Should it be already on red when fired up, it just turns on the motor for 0.5 s to "secure" the starting position as there is a hard stop at 0 and 180°.
• It turns 180° using the corresponding PUp (#rotation by degree) command with acceleration and deceleration parameters set. This is very accurate. The speed is set rather low, as well as the max power to regulate the speed. I let it run into the stop, however, then the PUp deceleration ramp is already close to "done".  
• The table is controlled by an ESP32 running Legoino.

There are some other just functional and no beautiful features as well: It self-centers the more or less wobbly drive mechanism consisting of these 1x4 gear racks, which are simply attached with hinges and secured only at 0/90/180° to the table: The white wheel on the motor pushes this assembly back in place should it move out of specs ;) and there is a similar mechanism to push back the axle/driving gear into position at 90°.

I really need to ramp up safety measured here - whatever goes wrong may cause the 89 to dive about 1.1 m onto the 9V/12V train section below ... or 1.5 m onto the floor, depending where she is on the track.

Just realized: The black 2xX plates on the track are there to get more reliable color sensor readings. The green section is checked by the ESP: When she is on green, she is securely resting on the table . When not: Immediate power down of all PUp components ...

Damnit - I keep editing this post like crazy - quickly for the purists out there: Yes, I believe the two 1x5 Technic beams securing the two technic brick sections (PUp L motor top secured to structure bottom) are illegal connections. Here is to illegal connections .   

As said, will post more soon!

Best
Thorsten 

 

 

Edited May 22, 2022 by Toastie

[zephyr1934]

Oh man, you are dehydrated. Choose the right liquid before your resume. That said, so far it looks pretty cool. I like how you integrated the turntable into the shelf, very clever. This is probably one of those builds that are best served with motion, please post video at some point.

[Lok24]

Nice work!

If you have hard stops at 0 and 180 you can stop the motor if it doesn't turn any more, that works fine.
Have a look to my demo (with pybricks):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TRjF-CTFBI

And,of course, it's self-adjusting

[Toastie]

52 minutes ago, Lok24 said:

If you have hard stops at 0 and 180 you can stop the motor if it doesn't turn any more, that works fine.

Thanks, Werner!

And nice solution on your gear rack as well!

As I said, I really want to be careful here - when the BR dives deep, severe damage is to be expected. I thus used the "go XYZ degrees" with maximum delay in the acceleration and deceleration profiles. The hard stop is to secure both 0/180 positions with respect to the static track.

The thing with the gear racks is that you can easily get two of them straight with only minor force. Also, that small gear came easily off, as it does not sit 100% aligned with the racks but rather on the inner radius - that way the table turns rather smoothly.

1 hour ago, zephyr1934 said:

please post video at some point.

Will do as soon as I have it up there ad ready to go!

Best wishes,
Thorsten

Edited May 23, 2022 by Toastie

[LEGO Train 12 Volts]

4 hours ago, zephyr1934 said:

I like how you integrated the turntable into the shelf, very clever. This is probably one of those builds that are best served with motion, please post video at some point. 

Benn is right, the painstaking work done to integrate the platform into the shelf is impressive ... even the rotation mechanism is ingenious!

I only have some icertitude about the moment of force that the rack can withstand.

We all waiting for a video as soon as possible!

[Toastie]

4 hours ago, LEGO Train 12 Volts said:

I only have some icertitude about the moment of force that the rack can withstand.

Hi Emanuele,

thanks for your nice comment!

Well, with regard to the racks withstanding the moment of force: They are attached to each other using the hinge plates resting on tiles. They are fixed to the moving table in positions 0/90/180°. And they are "self aligning" when on the 1x4 gear rack driven by the PUp L motor. So the rack-assembly driving the table is essentially of no concern - at least as judged by applying a manually imposed force ;) - actually the gear is then slipping, then anything else happening. The 89 is easily turned - and she has put on some weight .

All the best,
Thorsten

[Toastie]

Shelves are up, nothing destroyed, nor even damaged

Quick update:

Top: Crocodile track; lower section: BR89 track (the BR23 is 100% LEGO from 10 years ago, Ben Benekes design, the carriage is BB made (oh my)  

This shows how the turn table shelf is attached to the wall

This is the track section the 89 has to negotiate (not really challenging, I know, but she features 3x2 all flanged wheels, as the BR23 does). Black cardboard on the track is there to make sure the PUp color sensor does not freak out, when seeing alternating "White" - "DBG" changes - without, it just reports all shades of colors ... no surprise.

BR89 is not shown for obvious reasons - this goes into the Community forum. I guess any videos as well, as she is the star. Did a couple of runs today (BB track arrived today, so I can replace the 9V track I used for testing. It appears as if "it" works (the automation that is - the whole thing is about automation, not any manual control: Upon startup, the turn table looks for the initial position, as does the 89. And then I press one of the domes of the 89 - short for one run, long for doing this repeatedly.

Well, I am a little fond of the BR89 split axle design ... but not here. And: This is @Ben Beneke's idea! Not mine. Uhh: The Croc features that as well: All flanged wheels 

BTW: The Croc is steered differently: There are optical sensors embedded into the track attached to the ESP32. Which define the acceleration/full forward/deceleration sequences. The 89 does that via reporting colors to its ESP32. Total fun - even seeing it failing .

I need to add more safety measures, i.e. ramps at the terminal locations, lifting the BR89 up, so it can't move any further (as I have done for the Croc.)

Best,
Thorsten

 

Edited May 24, 2022 by Toastie

[dr_spock]

Nice.  How many optical sensors are you using? 

 

[LEGO Train 12 Volts]

19 hours ago, Toastie said:

 The 89 is easily turned - and she has put on some weight .

Mythischer professor!

Actually I didn't have many doubts that tests had been made, but in the past I had to abandon such a solution for my turntable, the effort was such that the inge plates lined up on the point of least effort, far from the gear ...well done!

18 hours ago, Toastie said:

Ben Benekes design, the carriage is BB made (oh my)  

 

I've the same locomotive and I bought the same BB wagons, nothing to criticize!

[CastleRail]

Could you not replace the 1x4 rack and hinge setup with 2 #24121s for a much more rigid base? 

[Toastie]

18 hours ago, dr_spock said:

Nice.  How many optical sensors are you using? 

Thank you!

On the BR 89 there is one single PUp color sensor - and there are 9 colored plates/tiles on the track. I am using red/green/yellow/blue only as these are recognized "as such" most reliably by the City hub's firmware, but only when the rest of the track is covered with e.g. black cardboard. The track is software-wise "segmented", so that 4 colors are enough to allow rather secure autonomous operation of the setup consisting of engine + turn table. (decoded as (color# && segment#))

The Crocodile track has 4 optical sensors, of the type "combined emitter + receiver" for proximity detection:

Their sensitivity is adjustable, see top picture. The "curved slope with cut out" (LDraw #29119) is reliably detected.

Spoiler

Sensor #1 = initial start/stop position, sensor #2 = decelerate when approaching far end, sensor #3 = stop/start at far end, sensor #4 = decelerate when approaching initial  start/stop position again. Some more here:

https://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?/forums/topic/179965-crocodile-%E2%80%93-esp32-%E2%80%93-legoino-%E2%80%93-thank-you-all-tlg-and-eb-members-%E2%80%93-espressif-cornelius/

 

Best,
Thorsten

[Toastie]

On 5/25/2022 at 8:12 PM, CastleRail said:

Could you not replace the 1x4 rack and hinge setup with 2 #24121s for a much more rigid base? 

Oh yes, I believe so! That's a very good idea - the Technic forum folks use these racks over and over again. But ...

Spoiler

Now, how do I phrase this without looking like a complete idiot/nerd/wacko ... OK, I'll  try: For one: I am old. Old people become increasingly weird over time (which is not that bad, as there is always a natural end to this weirdness ). Then: I really like to use what I have floating around here - which is some old/medium/new also ranked in numbers as such (#old > #medium > #new pieces) LEGO bricks and plates. Regardless of the challenge, I first try it what is at hand, even if this requires some time - I am an old slow builder - and/or some elaborate construction efforts. I just love to think about limitations. And when that fails, I resort to MLCad (yes, old school CAD)  and browse the parts available there. Then I try to find a current, cheap set featuring that part. Then I actually take my bike to the stores and try to find that set - no availability checking in advance, just for the fun of doing it. If all that fails, I wake up Brick Link ... but now I am already desperate ...

... I didn't have it.

Spoiler

 

So I built it with stuff I had. Point is, the 1x4 racks at 0/90/180° are rigidly fixed to the movable part of the turn table. What still has some "play", are the two 1x4 racks in between on each side. What they want to do is move a little when the rack currently driven by the gear/motor exposes some force on the rack assembly due to heavy weight on the table. However, when one of the "floating" racks is approaching the driving section, it is re-aligned by the "3x3 Technic disc with axle hole" (LDraw #52901), when the hinged section passes it. In other words: Should the track geometry after some building changes be screwed up (we are talking minute but nasty amounts here - changing the operation mode of the turn table from bad cracking sounds to smooth motor noise ) some quick 180° turns using the remote directly paired with the hub takes care of that issue.

As said before, the gear on the axle driven by the PUp L-motor also need to be kept in place. That one wants to move towards the center of the table when the going gets tough. This is taken care of by two curved slope plates perpendicularly attached (or snotted ) to the 90° position of the table; each time this section passes, it pushes the "Technic axle with stop" - and thus the gear as well - back into position. These are the two yellow/red plates - not the cheese slopes - seen in picture #3 of the original post.

 

I bet two of these 24121s would be of great usage here! You are absolutely right!

I just love the challenge.

Best regards,
Thorsten

Edited May 26, 2022 by Toastie

[Toastie]

Update: BR 89 MOD now in the Community Forum

Best regards,
Thorsten

[Shiva]

Looks <3 !

[bogieman]

Terrific work! Looking forward to the video, particularly with the turntable in action.

[Toastie]

2 hours ago, bogieman said:

Terrific work! Looking forward to the video, particularly with the turntable in action.

Thank you very much, Dave!

Well, there is a little video holdup - the BR 23 asks for more space than expected - oh well, first think, then measure, then build - and not - build, measure, think,  ...

The 23 has quite some overhang (cabin, back) when she is on curvy track - you did not see that one coming, did you  ... so I needed to open the drywall and made a little breakout box ... 

Yes, I do love my 23

 

Need to finish that up first. This sloped wall makes me fuzzy - all weird angles - nothing close enough to 45° to do some cheating, no.

Oh well: "Arbeit sind die Flügel, die tragen über Berg und Tal"

Best,
Thorsten

Edited May 28, 2022 by Toastie