Jayden Posted June 19, 2022 Posted June 19, 2022 (edited) This is probably optimistic, but I am in the planning stage of building a massive landship /vehicle transporter. I do plan to build it for real after I complete the studio model. These are the functions I would like to have. The 1st pic is certain - drive, steer, lift. The 2nd pic are functions that would be nice to have - secret door and crane. The 3x19 frames are just to show the distance. This is what i have so far: This all started when I saw this video in my YouTube feed. Then a little while later this came up and so then I wanted to make my own version of a landship In more detail. This is the rear axle: This is the lift mechanism in more detail. The backboard of the lift would be removed for the secret door to have vehicle storage under the deck a bit like an aircraft carrier: Also feel free to suggest a better name for the vehicle. I am keen for suggestions and feedback. Thank you for taking the time to read this. Edited June 28, 2022 by Jayden Quote
Philtech Posted June 19, 2022 Posted June 19, 2022 Wow! Looks like a great project. I'm excited to see how it turns out. Quote
Jayden Posted June 29, 2022 Author Posted June 29, 2022 (edited) @Philtech thanks Time for an update! I have redesigned the rear axles to have a lower gear ratio. (Because I put the 12 + 28 tooth gears in the wrong way around.) I have also come up with a design for the front axles. It is possible to build it IRL I then linked them together: and attached them to the chassis: but I forgot the suspension for the front axles... so I will have to redesign them. Edited June 29, 2022 by Jayden Quote
Jundis Posted June 29, 2022 Posted June 29, 2022 Do you really think you need suspension here? I doubt this will be an outdoor-vehicle and it's hard guess the right spring usage here... I would recommend you skip suspension completely and make a stiff chassis instead. Quote
Jayden Posted June 29, 2022 Author Posted June 29, 2022 (edited) 15 hours ago, Jundis said: Do you really think you need suspension here? I doubt this will be an outdoor-vehicle. Maybe not but it might drive over some grass. EDIT it might have to be an outdoor-vehicle given the size. 15 hours ago, Jundis said: And it's hard guess the right spring usage here. I was planning pendular suspension: 15 hours ago, Jundis said: I would recommend you skip suspension completely and make a stiff chassis instead. That's probably a good idea but I'll see how I go. (Not trying to be rude or arrogant.) Edited June 30, 2022 by Jayden Quote
Void_S Posted June 29, 2022 Posted June 29, 2022 Well, having all payload weight distributed across only rear fixed axles, I am afraid the front steering axles will just slip and won't turn the vehicle. I would make all the axles steered, like heavy-load trailer platforms, so no one axle will have any stress during the cornering. Heavy cargo will easily turn the rub-n-scrub steering into break-n-stuck... Just imagine an infinite grip and traction between the ground and rear tires, so they can only roll and never slip. Quote
Erik Leppen Posted June 29, 2022 Posted June 29, 2022 If you're going to go this big, I really recommend you pick up some studded Technic bricks. Yes, you can get a long way with frames, but in my experience, as far as stiffness goes, nothing beats good old stacked bricks. In my experience, even just plate-brick-plate-plate-brick-plate will get you a long way, and with 5x5 and 6x8 bricks you can achieve decent torsional stiffness between left and right side as well. Also, having the weight over such long axles won't work, I assume. I would probably go for unsprung suspension, where the weight-bearing linkage is as close to the wheel as possible. So, not in the middle of the axle - that would only lead to serious bending on the axle. (But I don't know if that's what you're trying to do. I assume so from the turntables.) Personally what I would try is add the well-known independent suspension parallelogram on each wheel, but replace the springs by a pushrod system where adjacent wheels are linked so that if one wheel goes up the other goes down. This way you still distribute the weight over the wheels and allowing for uneven terrain, but don't have to deal with springs allowing only a very specific weight range. You may also know that in real-life, those huge vehicles often also have inner wheels. Like those huge Mammoet moving platforms used to carry heavy objects like nuclear reactor housings and stuff, those things don't have axles running all the way from left to right. They have more than 2 rows of wheels. And lastly, absolutely make sure you test things in the reality of plastic parts. The bigger your project, the bigger the difference between the idealized digital build and the actual real-world build. All of that said, I really like you trying to take on this challenge and I'm looking forward to the progress (that's why I'm having so much feedback - because I really like the idea). Also, seeing you start from scratch is a real treat for the forums :) That way, it's not just about the result, but also very much about the process. :) Quote
Jayden Posted June 29, 2022 Author Posted June 29, 2022 (edited) On 6/30/2022 at 7:20 AM, Void_S said: Well, having all payload weight distributed across only rear fixed axles, I am afraid the front steering axles will just slip and won't turn the vehicle. The idea was having a lift to lift the vehicles up onto the top platform. Still, they might slip anyway. On 6/30/2022 at 7:20 AM, Void_S said: I would make all the axles steered, like heavy-load trailer platforms, so no one axle will have any stress during the cornering. Heavy cargo will easily turn the rub-n-scrub steering into break-n-stuck... Yes this is probably the best idea. But there isn't much room at the rear axles to make them steer. On 6/30/2022 at 7:49 AM, Erik Leppen said: If you're going to go this big, I really recommend you pick up some studded Technic bricks. Yes, you can get a long way with frames, but in my experience, as far as stiffness goes, nothing beats good old stacked bricks. In my experience, even just plate-brick-plate-plate-brick-plate will get you a long way, and with 5x5 and 6x8 bricks you can achieve decent torsional stiffness between left and right side as well. I know they are stiffer and I recently picked up quite a few old ones so I might integrate them. However I don't have any 5x5 and 6x8 bricks. On 6/30/2022 at 7:49 AM, Erik Leppen said: Also, having the weight over such long axles won't work, I assume. I would probably go for unsprung suspension, where the weight-bearing linkage is as close to the wheel as possible. So, not in the middle of the axle - that would only lead to serious bending on the axle. (But I don't know if that's what you're trying to do. I assume so from the turntables.) Personally what I would try is add the well-known independent suspension parallelogram on each wheel, but replace the springs by a pushrod system where adjacent wheels are linked so that if one wheel goes up the other goes down. This way you still distribute the weight over the wheels and allowing for uneven terrain, but don't have to deal with springs allowing only a very specific weight range. On 6/29/2022 at 7:34 PM, Jundis said: Do you really think you need suspension here? I doubt this will be an outdoor-vehicle and it's hard guess the right spring usage here... I would recommend you skip suspension completely and make a stiff chassis instead. Ok, ok. I will rebuild this version (partly because that means I don't have to order 4 more turntables.) On 6/30/2022 at 7:49 AM, Erik Leppen said: You may also know that in real-life, those huge vehicles often also have inner wheels. Like those huge Mammoet moving platforms used to carry heavy objects like nuclear reactor housings and stuff, those things don't have axles running all the way from left to right. They have more than 2 rows of wheels. This would require more wheels as I only own 8 large tractor tires and they don't come cheap, $8.26 AUD each on PAB. Still I know that this is the voice of experience speaking. On 6/30/2022 at 7:49 AM, Erik Leppen said: And lastly, absolutely make sure you test things in the reality of plastic parts. The bigger your project, the bigger the difference between the idealized digital build and the actual real-world build. Yes, I have some experience with not testing between stud.io and the "reality of plastic parts". On 6/30/2022 at 7:49 AM, Erik Leppen said: All of that said, I really like you trying to take on this challenge and I'm looking forward to the progress (that's why I'm having so much feedback - because I really like the idea). Also, seeing you start from scratch is a real treat for the forums :) That way, it's not just about the result, but also very much about the process. :) Thank you, yes this was my intent in starting a WIP topic. It is a win for me too because I get good input from people who know their stuff. Edited July 18, 2022 by Jayden Quote
grum64 Posted June 30, 2022 Posted June 30, 2022 This sounds a really interesting project, it’s certainly one I’ll be following. Right after my wallet’s recovered from seeing that first picture. Quote
Jayden Posted June 30, 2022 Author Posted June 30, 2022 (edited) 9 hours ago, grum64 said: This sounds a really interesting project, it’s certainly one I’ll be following. Right after my wallet’s recovered from seeing that first picture. Thank you grum. Haha I doubt my wallet will recover from other parts for a while but I already had all and more PU stuff. Edited July 1, 2022 by Jayden Quote
Jurss Posted July 1, 2022 Posted July 1, 2022 Sorry, but there will bend everything, and real suspension won't be needed at all? Do I understand correclty, that real swing suspension is connected to chassis just trough that turntable? If so, under the load it will bend, maybe even fall off. Quote
Jayden Posted July 1, 2022 Author Posted July 1, 2022 (edited) On 7/1/2022 at 3:27 PM, Jurss said: Sorry, but there will bend everything, and real suspension won't be needed at all? I have removed the front suspension however but I would like some suspension in the rear. I built the rear (and front) axles IRL and I was impressed with how strong it was - 3kg before it started to bend (the front needed a little more strengthening 1.2kg) On 7/1/2022 at 3:27 PM, Jurss said: Do I understand correctly, that real swing suspension is connected to chassis just trough that turntable? If so, under the load it will bend, maybe even fall off. Yes this is correct. Perhaps but I an trying to keep it light not heavy but solid. (It's healthier for my wallet) Edited July 5, 2022 by Jayden Quote
Jundis Posted July 1, 2022 Posted July 1, 2022 1 hour ago, Jayden said: have removed the front suspension however but I would like some suspension in the rear. I built the rear (and front) axles IRL and I was impressed with how strong it was - 3kg before it started to bend (the front needed a little more strengthening 1.2kg) Good move to test you assamblies ;-) Considering the size: Can you already guess the total mass of this beast? Quote
Erik Leppen Posted July 1, 2022 Posted July 1, 2022 6 hours ago, Jurss said: Sorry, but there will bend everything, and real suspension won't be needed at all? The goal of suspension is to make sure enough wheels touch the ground on uneven terrain. So, the questions are: how uneven is the terrain you want your vehicle to drive on, and how much of a problem is it if wheels don't touch the ground. Wheels not touching the ground will become a problem if either your drivetrain uses differentials. If, in this case, one of the connected driven wheels loses grip with the ground, all motor power goes to that wheel, getting your vehicle stuck. not all your wheels are driven. In this case, during driving, on any certain moment, most of the weight could come to rest on undriven wheels and your driven wheels may lose grip. So, if you want to make suspension unnecessary, my advise would be to drive all wheels, and not use differentials. That said, suspension can simply be a fun design challenge, of course :D Quote
Jayden Posted July 1, 2022 Author Posted July 1, 2022 3 hours ago, Jundis said: Good move to test you assamblies ;-) Considering the size: Can you already guess the total mass of this beast? No idea as I have never built something this big before 7-8kg maybe considering the landship and the franknbase (but it won't be as good) 15 minutes ago, Erik Leppen said: your drivetrain uses differentials. If, in this case, one of the connected driven wheels loses grip with the ground, all motor power goes to that wheel, getting your vehicle stuck. only the front 16 minutes ago, Erik Leppen said: not all your wheels are driven. In this case, during driving, on any certain moment, most of the weight could come to rest on undriven wheels and your driven wheels may lose grip. link to larger image. there are 2 motors in the middle for driving the front axles and 2 sticking out the sides 9 hours ago, Erik Leppen said: That said, suspension can simply be a fun design challenge, of course :D Indeed but the front axle was bending in the middle. Quote
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