hvader Posted July 21, 2023 Posted July 21, 2023 The trailer for The Marvels is delightful! Besides the bad pricing, the only thing missing from that set is Dar-Benn…
Legocentrico Posted July 21, 2023 Posted July 21, 2023 8 ore fa, bricksandabear ha detto: Con cosa stai misurando quanto non piace alla gente Capitan Marvel? Commenti? Brickbride ti ha dato numeri e molti dettagli e non hai davvero detto perché credi che sia così diverso. My perception is the result of my 360-degree experiences: the first film in my opinion is bad, I fell asleep at the cinema, every review I've read is negative, every time I hear about Brie Larson as Captain Marvel I perceive dislike. And as I already specified, I don't follow extremist channels, I don't like hate-mongers (just like I don't like fanboys), but I follow channels that are neutral or friendly to Marvel… so I guess my perception about the franchise isn't wrong. Maybe it's different abroad, maybe it's a much loved franchise, that's why I'm waiting for the results of the cinema, to have an objective, updated and worldwide response. If you notice I have never expressed my opinion on the character or on the actress, with my first comment I wanted to put what (in my opinion) is the perception of the public in relation to the choices of Lego. If with the following comments I seemed more provocative to you, it's only because, I repeat, I don't like haters but I don't like fanboys either :-p
squiz18 Posted July 21, 2023 Posted July 21, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, hvader said: The trailer for The Marvels is delightful! Besides the bad pricing, the only thing missing from that set is Dar-Benn… Yeah I agree. If that set was $50 and included the villain I think the reaction would be so much more positive. And @brickbride thanks for adding such a comprehensive post. Edited July 21, 2023 by squiz18
brickbride Posted July 21, 2023 Posted July 21, 2023 (edited) 13 hours ago, THELEGOBATMAN said: Most big blockbusters are flopping this year. The Flash and Indiana Jones are fighting for the mantle of the biggest flop of all time, and people thought both would be a success. Only a few (like Across the Spider-Verse or Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3) managed to make a nice profit. My point is, at this point even big IPs can be flops. The Marvels' profits won't be a metric of how much people like the character itself. 9 hours ago, wesker said: In Black Widow's defense I'd also add her movie was released during the height of the pandemic as well as going straight to streaming. Had it come out during Phase 3 I think the film would've been far successful than what it ultimately was. ... Still I think it was a smart idea to limit her new movie to just one set. The MCU has lost a lot of goodwill since Endgame due to the inconsistent quality in writing and over saturation of media and that's really bled into how well the sets are performing at retail. Almost all the Phase 4 sets have really struggled to move even on clearance. Its not just Lego either. Hasbro's merchandise has also been pegwarming like crazy. True! As I've said, most character's debut movies did worse than their sequels even when the sequels were objectively worse or at least less well-regarded (like Iron Man vs. Iron Man 2 and 3). BUT most of those sequels came during phase 1-3 when the MCU was slowly building up towards Endgame, with Dr Strange 2 and Spiderman 4 so far being the only exception. (And those were both phase 4, so they at least benefitted both from the post-pandemic movie boom and from people's attachment to Infinity War/Endgame. Phase 5 is another cup of tea entirely.) Since then? Thor 4 actually did worse than Thor 3, and Wakanda Forever did worse than the first Black Panther movie. Quantumania did worse than BOTH its predecessors. I fully agree about Black Widow - like I've said, that movie had the deck stacked against it in all kinds of ways. And it STILL outperformed The Hulk (also Captain America 1, but that's only barely and not taking into account inflation). I also agree that between Eternals, Shan-Chi, and Black Widow, LEGO must have gotten pretty badly burned on movie tie-in sets. Wakanda Forever's box office figures were at least decent, but the sets have still ended up on clearance a lot. The same, I suspect, for Thor Love and Thunder. (Despite the inexplicable price increase for the Goat Boat.) Not sure about Dr Strange 2. Still, GotG 3 got three pretty decent (by 2023 LEGO standards) sets - but that might have been decided earlier than the one for The Marvels, meaning it might simply be that LEGO going forward is exercising extreme caution with any MCU movie that doesn't seem like a surefire bet (read: stars Spider-Man), and The Marvels is simply the first one where this new policy shows. We'll see. @squiz18 You're very welcome! Edited July 21, 2023 by brickbride
Legocentrico Posted July 21, 2023 Posted July 21, 2023 Apparently they showed a couple clips of X-Men97 in San Diego. Lego has a stand, I wonder if they will resume the wonderful habit of revealing some next year's sets during the show :-D
BusterNut31 Posted July 21, 2023 Posted July 21, 2023 On 7/19/2023 at 12:36 PM, brickbride said: ... and where is the rest of the set? The really sad thing though? If this won't sell at the price - and it won't -, LEGO will be all like "We knew it! Female superheroes don't sell! Let's make even fewer of them!" Yeah its such a shame, why are they setting this up to fail. Its a cool set and a horrible price!!!
StudLord Posted July 21, 2023 Posted July 21, 2023 Hi, longtime lurker on here - probably from when the last CMF was announced, and the parallels to the responses are striking - but I wanted to add to the Captain Marvel (2019) discussion, and I'll try and keep it LEGO related. It's worth keeping in mind how the MCU has developed over time. If you look at Phase 1, we've got multiple white male power fantasies; what if I was super-rich, what if I was super-strong, what if I was a God, what if I was super-noble. Phase 2 is all about consequences; PTSD, sins of the father, conspiracies and government betrayal of ideals (the outlier being Ant-Man which was originally meant for Phase 3 but is dismissable as comic relief). It's not until Phase 3 that we start introducing new solo heroes and the core fanbase starts to react. Dr. Strange; bit weird, Spider-Man; teen nerd but beloved, Black Panther; a black superhero, Captain Marvel; a *female* superhero?! That's when white cishet comicbook movie fans had to start empathising with other demographics really. Until that point they'd been pandered to with multiple variations of "me, but with cool powers" and BP and CM were a sudden departure. That's when you start to see the reactive review-bombing, vocal resistance, me-and-my-silent-majority don't like this. What is difficult to accept is when you encounter something that wasn't made for you. LEGO tries to cater to every demographic that will buy their product. Personally I'm there for original trilogy Star Wars, MCU, Jurassic Park, and always on day of release the annual modular. I go into the store and see LEGO Friends, Harry Potter, Architecture, Technic, Star Wars prequel and sequel stuff... and I just accept that those aren't for me. Someone's buying them, clearly. Speed Champions sells out the weeks around Christmas because they're priced perfectly for gifts and using gift money on, but I'd rather have the Creator Expert classic car du jour. They all co-exist on the shelves. So ask yourself; was this particular media property made for me? And can you accept when it wasn't, and it is still successful globally without your endorsement or participation? Or should everything always be about you? I'll be buying two full sets of the second CMF series, one for display and one for storage, same as I did with the first series - a decision facilitated by the lively discussion and analysis provided by this forum.
brickbride Posted July 21, 2023 Posted July 21, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, Legocentrico said: My perception is the result of my 360-degree experiences: the first film in my opinion is bad, I fell asleep at the cinema, every review I've read is negative, every time I hear about Brie Larson as Captain Marvel I perceive dislike. So, like @StudLord said: It wasn't for you. People tend to move in circles that reinforce their perceptions. But that doesn't diminish that Captain Marvel was a huge box office success. For comparison: I absolutely loathed Avatar 2. I sat in the cinema unable to believe that a movie this nonsensical, misogynistic, poorly plotted, needlessly violent, and inconsistent in its morals could have been made today. I was utterly disgusted by how it dealt with many issues reminiscent of the real world (such as the racist bullying of our protagonists by their hosts which was just glossed over). There were barely any sympathetic characters - and those few weren't exactly well-characterised either -, and in fact the movie even made me lose sympathy for characters I'd originally liked. If I hear anyone lauding the movie I privately think they're out of their mind, and if I came across a review titled something like "Cameron Succeeds Again" I'd probably skip it. But I wouldn't argue with the fact that it's a box office success or that many people did like it, even if I absolutely cannot understand why. (Or, for that matter, why LEGO would have made playsets of it.) Edited July 21, 2023 by brickbride
THELEGOBATMAN Posted July 21, 2023 Posted July 21, 2023 15 hours ago, Legocentrico said: The Marvels is aimed at a young, multi-ethnic audience, does not have a protagonist with legal problems and belongs to the same universe as the Guardians, as well as being the sequel to a very, very, very loved and blockbuster film and greatly appreciated by audiences and critics. I see no reason why it can't replicate the great success of the first… Because cinema has changed significantly since 2019.
Legocentrico Posted July 21, 2023 Posted July 21, 2023 1 hour ago, THELEGOBATMAN said: Because cinema has changed significantly since 2019. You seem biased to me, as if you already know that the film will go badly :-D I'm very neutral, I want to understand how much the public loves this franchise, and only the box office data will tell us for sure. Guardians and Spiderman did well, so it's possible. 3 hours ago, brickbride said: So, like @StudLord said: It wasn't for you. People tend to move in circles that reinforce their perceptions. But that doesn't diminish that Captain Marvel was a huge box office success. Despite the language problems I'm sure I've made my position clear. Maybe it's still my fault if you don't understand, maybe it's a problem with the translation, I don't know… anyway I'm not going to continue this ot :-)
Mandalorianknight Posted July 21, 2023 Posted July 21, 2023 (edited) On 7/19/2023 at 6:36 AM, brickbride said: ... and where is the rest of the set? The really sad thing though? If this won't sell at the price - and it won't -, LEGO will be all like "We knew it! Female superheroes don't sell! Let's make even fewer of them!" This is an absolutely absurd take. It is completely delusional to believe lego is attempting to look for any reason to put less diversity in sets. 5 hours ago, StudLord said: That's when white cishet comicbook movie fans had to start empathising with other demographics really. Until that point they'd been pandered to with multiple variations of "me, but with cool powers" and BP and CM were a sudden departure. That's when you start to see the reactive review-bombing, vocal resistance, me-and-my-silent-majority don't like this. What is difficult to accept is when you encounter something that wasn't made for you.. I want to know what universe you live in where there was ANY significant dislike to BP1. I don't think I've met a single person who has a dislike about that film beyond the PS2 cutscene CGI in some shots and those "killmonger was right" weirdos. "it's only disliked because people who dislike it are ___ist" is one of the stupidest arguments I've seen, and I see it SO FREQUENTLY it drives me mad. It's like all the people who claim rey hate is sexist when so many of the people with weird amounts of vitriol towards rey love ahsoka, jyn, leia, etc. (I also want to clarify, I don't have any specific dislike of Rey, I'm just using it as an example because it's what I often see. I don't like TLJ and thought TROS was generally weak, but Rey herself wasn't the main issue) 6 hours ago, Legocentrico said: Apparently they showed a couple clips of X-Men97 in San Diego. Lego has a stand, I wonder if they will resume the wonderful habit of revealing some next year's sets during the show :-D Finally a comment that's on topic! I really hope we see some X-men stuff soon too. Wolvie, Beast, and Storm are a good start, but I want an X-Jet. I want a Sentinal. I want Professor X, Jean Gray, all of it. Two other things more on-topic: Secret invasion continues to be by far the best marvel disney+ show and like marvel's version of Andor, which makes me all the more annoyed we aren't getting anything for it. I get that it, like Andor, is probably more mature than lego likes to make standard sets for, but we could at least have had SI Fury, Talos, Gi'ah or Gravik in somewhere for that CMF. Actually, would have been a cool gimmick if they just included spare skrull heads in some of the CMF packages for the characters from other shows. I noticed from Jangbricks's video that the Hoopty has 420 pieces, which suddenly explains everything, because that's what Lego must have been on to make this $90. (But seriously, That's evidence of either a quality control team that doesn't care anymore and/or designers who are more focused on "haha funny drug number to put on toy for kids" than making good sets.) Edited July 21, 2023 by Mandalorianknight
BrickBob Studpants Posted July 21, 2023 Posted July 21, 2023 12 minutes ago, Mandalorianknight said: Secret invasion continues to be by far the best marvel disney+ show […] Really? People generally seem to be apathetic towards the show, so you‘re the first person I‘m seeing to elevate it to that level I quite enjoy it myself, especially Fury and Talos, but I really don‘t like Gravik and his weak motivations. It also feels quite inconsequential, unless the finale delivers an unexpected gamechanger As I keep saying since the D+ shows started, they should‘ve been movies, and this one even more so than the previous ones. And none of the characters scream „CMF candidate“ in my opinion
StudLord Posted July 21, 2023 Posted July 21, 2023 (edited) 42 minutes ago, Mandalorianknight said: I want to know what universe you live in where there was ANY significant dislike to BP1. I don't think I've met a single person who has a dislike about that film beyond the PS2 cutscene CGI in some shots and those "killmonger was right" weirdos. "it's only disliked because people who dislike it are ___ist" is one of the stupidest arguments I've seen, and I see it SO FREQUENTLY it drives me mad. It's like all the people who claim rey hate is sexist when so many of the people with weird amounts of vitriol towards rey love ahsoka, jyn, leia, etc. Cool beans, it's this universe where Forbes writes articles about the reactionary reviews and Rotten Tomatoes having to change how they allow user reviews. BP was the start of it (critics loved it and we got a slew of articles about the first guy to review it below 5/5), and CM was when it really got messy. Anything to do with "_ists" is a disingenuous reframing of my point. My point was about recognising when the intent behind a piece of media isn't for you, I thought maybe the extended LEGO parallel made that clear. 42 minutes ago, Mandalorianknight said: Secret invasion continues to be by far the best marvel disney+ show and like marvel's version of Andor, which makes me all the more annoyed we aren't getting anything for it. I get that it, like Andor, is probably more mature than lego likes to make standard sets for, but we could at least have had SI Fury, Talos, Gi'ah or Gravik in somewhere for that CMF. Actually, would have been a cool gimmick if they just included spare skrull heads in some of the CMF packages for the characters from other shows. A gimic that worked well for Minimates when they released Secret Invasion tie-in figures. Can you believe that there are people out there who aren't watching Secret Invasion because they know it builds on from Captain Marvel which they haven't seen because they heard it was really bad? Pretty crazy, right? 22 minutes ago, BrickBob Studpants said: And none of the characters scream „CMF candidate“ in my opinion Speak for yourself, I want a Sonia Falsworth/Olivia Coleman minifig. Edited July 21, 2023 by StudLord added response to BrickBob Studpants
BrickBob Studpants Posted July 21, 2023 Posted July 21, 2023 4 minutes ago, StudLord said: Speak for yourself, I want a Sonia Falsworth/Olivia Coleman minifig. I clearly said „in my opinion“, so what gave you the impression I spoke for someone other than myself? She‘s one of the best characters in the show, but wouldn‘t make for a particularly interesting minifig. Again, just my two cents
StudLord Posted July 21, 2023 Posted July 21, 2023 6 minutes ago, BrickBob Studpants said: She‘s one of the best characters in the show, but wouldn‘t make for a particularly interesting minifig. Again, just my two cents We can workshop this - accessories could be an owl statue with an eye patch and a crystal decanter. Leg printing could include a pistol butt peeking out of her pantsuit pocket.
thebricksbear Posted July 21, 2023 Posted July 21, 2023 Happy Hogan/Coulson are a couple of the worst minifigs in the superheroes line, and a few of my fav characters. The CMF sets just don't work well with standard human characters, they have to be interesting in some way. Monica Rambeau had super powers and she's a horribly dull cmf fig, even with her new hairpiece. I think the exception to that is unique looking figs, like Alfred, JJ Jameson, and TChalla Starlord. I just can't imagine an Olivia Coleman fig being very interesting. Best for those characters to be MOCed
NoOneOfImportance Posted July 21, 2023 Posted July 21, 2023 1 hour ago, bricksandabear said: Happy Hogan/Coulson are a couple of the worst minifigs in the superheroes line, and a few of my fav characters. The CMF sets just don't work well with standard human characters, they have to be interesting in some way. Monica Rambeau had super powers and she's a horribly dull cmf fig, even with her new hairpiece. I think the exception to that is unique looking figs, like Alfred, JJ Jameson, and TChalla Starlord. I just can't imagine an Olivia Coleman fig being very interesting. Best for those characters to be MOCed Agreed on this mainly. Though I would argue Coulson is FAR better than how they massacred Happy. Civilians (stretching that, but you know what I mean) just don't work for detailed CMF figs as well as someone like, say, Talos would have, or Falcon Cap, etc..
RedHoodPug Posted July 21, 2023 Posted July 21, 2023 1 hour ago, StudLord said: Cool beans, it's this universe where Forbes writes articles about the reactionary reviews and Rotten Tomatoes having to change how they allow user reviews. BP was the start of it (critics loved it and we got a slew of articles about the first guy to review it below 5/5), and CM was when it really got messy. That article is about BP2, @Mandalorianknight was referring to the first film which was a good film that made bank. Someone gave it below 5/5 because he's allowed to feel that way, but it doesn't make it any less popular. And a slew of articles? Most of them were the same copy and paste clickbait guff. As a white man I can comfortably say that the first one was brilliant bar a few issues with CGI, but that's par for the course with that technology. The second one was good but I just didn't feel it in the same way I did the first. With Captain Marvel I enjoyed the 90s references and the Flerken, I just wasn't really sold in her as the next big character. Then her role in Endgame was almost pointless, almost as if introducing a powerful character who could turn the tide of the battle so late on was a risk. She was due to get a standalone sequel but it soon got changed to the one we will be seeing soon. Not all of us white men are racist or misogynistic, some of us just have nuanced takes on film tastes. The other consideration is that superhero fatigue is real.
Buckethead Posted July 21, 2023 Posted July 21, 2023 4 hours ago, Mandalorianknight said: Finally a comment that's on topic! I really hope we see some X-men stuff soon too. Wolvie, Beast, and Storm are a good start, but I want an X-Jet. I want a Sentinal. I want Professor X, Jean Gray, all of it. It's weird too since other toy companies recently showed off their merchandise for X-Men, but Lego hasn't released any official images. Hopefully we get images soon now that other companies like Hasbro have already revealed theirs publicly.
Legocentrico Posted July 21, 2023 Posted July 21, 2023 28 minuti fa, Buckethead disse: È anche strano dal momento che altre aziende di giocattoli hanno recentemente mostrato la loro merce per X-Men, ma Lego non ha rilasciato alcuna immagine ufficiale. Speriamo di ottenere presto delle immagini ora che altre aziende come Hasbro hanno già rivelato pubblicamente le loro. This is actually normal, unfortunately… I hope to have some good news between August and September, when we start talking about the January sets
Mandalorianknight Posted July 21, 2023 Posted July 21, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, BrickBob Studpants said: Really? People generally seem to be apathetic towards the show, so you‘re the first person I‘m seeing to elevate it to that level I quite enjoy it myself, especially Fury and Talos, but I really don‘t like Gravik and his weak motivations. It also feels quite inconsequential, unless the finale delivers an unexpected gamechanger As I keep saying since the D+ shows started, they should‘ve been movies, and this one even more so than the previous ones. And none of the characters scream „CMF candidate“ in my opinion I love Gravik. He's the perfect example of a tyrant pretending to be a freedom fighter, and the scene where Spoiler some of his men try to assassinate him might be one of my favorite in the MCU, alongside the second "and did you get what you wanted" poem scene. As for consequential, I could care less. Ever since captain marvel came out it was clear the MCU would never have a secret invasion like that of the comics (and even if it hadn't, it would have been really expensive and difficult to pull off), so I was fine with it not being a massive event like said comics. And at this point, I've pretty much tuned out of the wider MCU, so I don't really care about setup or consequences for the next one. 4 hours ago, StudLord said: Cool beans, it's this universe where Forbes writes articles about the reactionary reviews and Rotten Tomatoes having to change how they allow user reviews. BP was the start of it (critics loved it and we got a slew of articles about the first guy to review it below 5/5), and CM was when it really got messy. Anything to do with "_ists" is a disingenuous reframing of my point. My point was about recognising when the intent behind a piece of media isn't for you, I thought maybe the extended LEGO parallel made that clear. A gimic that worked well for Minimates when they released Secret Invasion tie-in figures. Can you believe that there are people out there who aren't watching Secret Invasion because they know it builds on from Captain Marvel which they haven't seen because they heard it was really bad? Pretty crazy, right? Speak for yourself, I want a Sonia Falsworth/Olivia Coleman minifig. Weird, that universe seems to be one where BP2 was the first film. Odd. Also odd that anything to do with ists is disengenius reframing when you brought up the fact that it was "white cishets" (Whatever that hell that means) giving poor reviews to to the films with the implication it was simply because the characters were female/minorities. Yup, it's really disappointing, but TCW had to fight that same battle and ended up also being a show much better than it's films. It's also impressive how well Secret invasion is able to work with Captain Marvel's complete alteration of the skrulls' lore. Same, she's exactly what I would expect a british version of Nick Fury to be. 54 minutes ago, Buckethead said: It's weird too since other toy companies recently showed off their merchandise for X-Men, but Lego hasn't released any official images. Hopefully we get images soon now that other companies like Hasbro have already revealed theirs publicly. Lego does tend to hold reveals pretty close to their chests, and if it is a january release for the sets I guess I get it. But at the same time, all I need is an announcement that sets are coming. To be honest, they don't even need to be 97 based (The show's fine, and I'll be happy if they are), just ANYTHING X-men focused. I know it was the disney order or whatever, but the fact that all we've had X-men wise since the first year was a single movie tie-in ish set, a mighty micros set, a mech, and 3 CMF figures is insane to me. (Lego also has the opportunity to go absolutely ham on sentinals like they do with hulkbusters, but it'd actually be cool since the sentinals have always showed up in a variety of sizes and colorations.) Edited July 21, 2023 by Mandalorianknight
Legocentrico Posted July 21, 2023 Posted July 21, 2023 16 minutes ago, Mandalorianknight said: (Lego also has the opportunity to go absolutely ham on sentinals like they do with hulkbusters, but it'd actually be cool since the sentinals have always showed up in a variety of sizes and colorations.) If I remember correctly in the original show there was a huge sentry that produced normal sentries, in this case a set like hulkbuster “ucs” would make sense :-D I agree with you, an announcement would be enough to light the fire, and comic-con would have been the perfect occasion to say or even show something! there's still tomorrow but I don't think it will happen.. Brick Clicker, if you hear me, put a horse's head in the bed of all your informants and let us know something ASAP :-D
StudLord Posted July 21, 2023 Posted July 21, 2023 8 minutes ago, Mandalorianknight said: Weird, that universe seems to be one where BP2 was the first film. Odd. I get the distinct feeling that neither you nor RedHoodPug read beyond the title and first paragraph. It directly answers your question regarding dislike of the first BP movie and the changes Rotten Tomatoes made before BP2 came out. There are also plenty of below par opinions out there, imdb and metacritic were easy enough to find. I'm not interested in the motivations of these people, or any "ists" that can be applied to them. BP and CM were not made for white men as the primary target audience is what I'm saying. If being a Marvel movie got them to buy tickets, then that's a bonus for Disney. Similarly, LEGO is making primarily kids' toys with a recent surge in the last years of UCS kits, collector pieces and dioramas aimed at AFOLs. No kid wants a BP bust, there's no play value, but if I buy a 4+ BP set for the minifigs then that's a nice bonus for LEGO and, by extension, Disney's licensing department.
BrickBob Studpants Posted July 21, 2023 Posted July 21, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Mandalorianknight said: I love Gravik. He's the perfect example of a tyrant pretending to be a freedom fighter, and the scene where (spoiler) Personally, I found that scene hilarious They seriously tried to kill their super-powered boss with a plastic bag?! Other than the foolishness of their attempt, it was pretty satisfying to see Gravik get a good beating, I give it that. Can't wait for him to die next week. Painfully. I don't like cowardly villains. 1 hour ago, Mandalorianknight said: As for consequential, I could care less. Ever since captain marvel came out it was clear the MCU would never have a secret invasion like that of the comics (and even if it hadn't, it would have been really expensive and difficult to pull off), so I was fine with it not being a massive event like said comics. And at this point, I've pretty much tuned out of the wider MCU, so I don't really care about setup or consequences for the next one. I'm not saying Secret Invasion had to be on the same level as the comic counterpart, but some higher stakes would have been appreciated. Sure, they try to have that, but without actually bringing in an Avenger or two, it still feels small-scale. Let's be real, as soon as the Avengers showed up, Gravik would be toast Edited July 21, 2023 by BrickBob Studpants
LegendaryArticuno Posted July 21, 2023 Posted July 21, 2023 Secret Invasion show made me hate the Skrulls. I actually enjoyed Captain Marvel and thought it was a bit above average for an MCU movie, but SI has been so boring. I want this Skrull nonsense over and done with. Hope we get some dedicated Loki S02 sets.
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