The Love for Printed Pieces Thread/Sticker Resentment Thread

[Ondra]

6 hours ago, danth said:

Ew! WTF?

Yeah that set would have been really nice with prints.

I think people really understimate how valued printed pieces are. I've bought sets I don't even care about because of how nice the prints are. Like Captain America Mech Armor. I don't care about Marvel at all but that shield print is awesome!

I mean, go look at prices for printed parts. Especially retired parts. Then tell me how much people don't really care about prints. They are, literally, more highly valued than stickers, in real money.

Its even worse, because I found that these eyes can be done brickbuild with like three pieces for one eye at all. 

Edited April 19, 2023 by Ondra

[MAB]

10 hours ago, Alexandrina said:

Anyway, I'm personally inclined to think that the best case scenario would be Lego switching to printed parts only but reducing the detail on some of their licensed sets. Prints are nice, but some details are so specific that you'd basically never have use for them in anything other than the original model.

I think that is one possible change that could be made to increase the use of printed parts and reduce the use of stickers. It would lead to less decoration overall (possibly with more brick built detail where the scale allows) and presumably the use of more generic prints that don't look as good as unique specific stickers but allow the parts to be reused in many sets. Would those be good things? I'm not sure. It may make individual parts nicer in that you don't need to apply stickers, but it would reduce details or increase duplication between sets. Another alternative may be that only certain parts are printed, so that they don't have to continually reset the printing machinery to hold different parts, reducing downtime and calibration time for the printing machines. So for example, get more printed 1x2 and 1x4 tiles and 2x2 and 1x4 bricks but less other shapes with prints. As I understand it, one of the reasons we get so many new minifigure prints is that they have dedicated machinery for printing each of the minifigure parts so don't have to constantly switch machine parts each time a different shaped part is printed. 

 

It is hard to compare the prices of printed vs stickered parts, since so few exist in both printed and stickered versions. And even if a decorated part does exist in both forms, demand for one over the other might be higher if it is required to complete an expensive set rather than the intrinsic value of the part away from the set.

It is interesting to look at prices of prints vs plain parts. Of course there are plenty of parts where the unique print is worth significantly more than the plain part where the plain one occurs in huge numbers and the printed one appears in just one set, and this is highly dependent on the set the part came in as well as its reusability in MOCs. If it is unique to a set (especially an expensive licensed set) then a printed part is likely to be much more valuable than a plain unprinted part.

But then there are also counter examples of printed parts like this where printing makes the part worth less. 

The (new) six month sold prices by quantity on BL are 6p and 4p, whereas even though the printed ones came in a single set and the plain one came in 29 sets, the plain has a 6mo ave of 20p. Those parts would have been more valuable if they had not been printed! Although of course the textured surface here would make applying stickers hard.

There are also vintage examples that are similar. For example,

the plain one (used) has an average of about £4.20, whereas the printed one is just 15p. The plain one only came in the Black Seas Barracuda (and the reissue) whereas the printed one came in three Fabuland sets (including two very small sets, so there are loads of them). Scrubbing the print off makes that part more valuable.

When it comes to desirability, in some cases printed parts are better and in some cases plain but stickered parts are better.

 

[Ondra]

Another set that I found better without stickers is horizon West Tallneck.

I compared with stickers and without stickers photos before purchase and stickers ruining it. Because they have different shade than brick, they are clearly stickers, they give weird cartoony looking feel to whole robot.

Without stickers that set still looks good and I would say probably better fit into Lego lore.

[Jason Todd is my God]

Hi,

I found the idea of stickered torsos in the shell polybags a bridge too far for me!

Like I know older sets did that but this polybags was vaguely recent! No other sets were doing it but 🤢 this one did. In 2014

See here - https://www.bricklink.com/v2/catalog/catalogitem.page?S=40194-1#T=I

Actually after looking it up it seems it was 2 shell polybags that did this, not just the one... But the point still stands 👊

-J.T.i.m.G

[Alexandrina]

43 minutes ago, Jason Todd is my God said:

Hi,

I found the idea of stickered torsos in the shell polybags a bridge too far for me!

Like I know older sets did that but this polybags was vaguely recent! No other sets were doing it but 🤢 this one did. In 2014

See here - https://www.bricklink.com/v2/catalog/catalogitem.page?S=40194-1#T=I

Actually after looking it up it seems it was 2 shell polybags that did this, not just the one... But the point still stands 👊

-J.T.i.m.G

With how ugly the torso design is, it's probably a blessing people got to have plain figs instead!  but in all seriousness, that looks like quite a limited release on top of being promotional - it's possible they couldn't justify making a whole print for such a low-volume set. Nothing in the set looks like it's an uncommon piece, so it could have just been a really quick, cheap set knocked together for the promo

[danth]

I just realized that people were pushing that "tOo mAnY BoXeS" argument while Dots and Vidiyo existed. Like...obviously Lego can crank out boatloads of printed parts. It's not even a problem.

[MAB]

1 hour ago, danth said:

I just realized that people were pushing that "tOo mAnY BoXeS" argument while Dots and Vidiyo existed. Like...obviously Lego can crank out boatloads of printed parts. It's not even a problem.

In both those themes, many of the large volume of printed parts are inserted into packets at random and so do not need to be stored individually.  

[danth]

2 minutes ago, MAB said:

In both those themes, many of the large volume of printed parts are inserted into packets at random and so do not need to be stored individually.  

What about all the sets that aren't random?

Also, are you admitting that once pieces are in bags, they don't have to be stored individually? Because, boy oh boy, do I have a whopper of an idea for you. 🤣

[The Island Chronicles]

A thread about love for printed pieces! Nice one! For me personally, it depends on the set. Like if it's a small set, stickers a pretty pointless. But if it's a big set, I'll take either stickers or printed pieces. Perhaps even a combination of both. 

Edited May 14, 2023 by The Brick Boss

[MAB]

8 hours ago, danth said:

What about all the sets that aren't random?

Also, are you admitting that once pieces are in bags, they don't have to be stored individually? Because, boy oh boy, do I have a whopper of an idea for you. 🤣

I've not bought many DOTS sets but my impression is that there are not many printed parts in regular sets (as opposed to the random bags), so not too different to other themes. As for bagging them into one unit, that is already done for things like the DOTS letter tiles, and Friends cutlery and insects. 

[danth]

9 hours ago, MAB said:

I've not bought many DOTS sets but my impression is that there are not many printed parts in regular sets (as opposed to the random bags), so not too different to other themes.

You seem to know all the details about things that make printing pieces sound impossible logistically, but then claim ignorance about the many sets that show Lego has no problem doing prints. Interesting.

There are many, many DOTS sets that have non-random prints, just look through Bricklink inventories.

9 hours ago, MAB said:

As for bagging them into one unit, that is already done for things like the DOTS letter tiles, and Friends cutlery and insects. 

Exactly. There is no logistical issue here so we can all stop peddling TLG propaganda to the contrary.

Edited May 15, 2023 by danth

[MAB]

10 minutes ago, danth said:

Exactly. There is no logistical issue here so we can all stop peddling TLG propaganda to the contrary.

Yet there are probably other constraints that we do not know about. I don't think they have ever shown a video of the DOTS printed letter tiles being printed, but I assume the contents of the bag are all printed in one go then bagged rather than individual letters printed, stored, then bagged. That could mean that the pad prints the whole contents of the bag in one go across an array of the tiles then bags them - there are 36 tiles in those bags, so possibly a 6x6 array of 1x1 round tiles. If they print an array, that would also mean that they can only do the same colour across all parts and need the same tile shape for all parts being printed. It might even be that it only works for round tiles as they do not need any alignment whereas square tiles would need to be aligned before mass printing. They can align one in the normal jig for printing parts singly, but can they do it if mass printing? The DOTS letter tiles have only ever appeared bagged in the same way in a few sets, and never in some other distribution / frequency of letters, again suggesting that these are prepared together and individual prints cannot be used in other sets without the whole bag appearing. So yes, they might be able to give us loads of prints in one set if the parts are printed and bagged together, but that might mean that all printed parts in that set are the same shape (possibly even just 1x1 rounds tiles as that is all we have seen like that so far) and must have the same colour printing. Whereas most regular sets have multiple shaped parts that need decorating, often in different colours.

So there could well be logistical issues here.

 

[danth]

3 minutes ago, MAB said:

So yes, they might be able to give us loads of prints in one set if the parts are printed and bagged together, but that might mean that all printed parts in that set are the same shape (possibly even just 1x1 rounds tiles as that is all we have seen like that so far) and must have the same colour printing. Whereas most regular sets have multiple shaped parts that need decorating, often in different colours.

I would be fine with the same color & same shapes in one bag. Especially since they could do, say, three bags to give you different colors and different shapes and still end up with only three "items" to track.

As for parts alignment, I would think you'd still have to align even round parts in two dimensions, just not the third. For squares you'd need to align all three. But if they come out of the molds in a batch wouldn't they be pre-aligned?

Bottom line though, they print pieces in various shapes now, and they end up in bags somehow. Every Lego set has its parts in bags. It's obviously doable, since, you know, they do it now. For every set. People keep trying to pretend that storage is some sort of logistical issue, but it's just not.

[MAB]

2 minutes ago, danth said:

I would be fine with the same color & same shapes in one bag. Especially since they could do, say, three bags to give you different colors and different shapes and still end up with only three "items" to track.

As for parts alignment, I would think you'd still have to align even round parts in two dimensions, just not the third. For squares you'd need to align all three. But if they come out of the molds in a batch wouldn't they be pre-aligned?

Bottom line though, they print pieces in various shapes now, and they end up in bags somehow. Every Lego set has its parts in bags. It's obviously doable, since, you know, they do it now. For every set. People keep trying to pretend that storage is some sort of logistical issue, but it's just not.

We have only seen (so far) that they can do bagged printed parts for 1x1 round tiles, with single colour printing. If that is the limit, then I'd take stickers to decorate different shape and colour parts over that. If they could do multi-coloured printing on maybe 2x2 square tiles or 1x2 rectangular tiles then that would be much more suitable. Even if all the decorated parts in a set were the same colour 1x2 or 2x2 tiles, it might be OK so long as the build can be designed to take just that shape part for decorated areas. For things like Speed Champions cars, where many different and often curved surfaces that are decorated (with stickers), printing all those in one go seems a way off. The logistical problem there is not storage but the printing.

[danth]

25 minutes ago, MAB said:

We have only seen (so far) that they can do bagged printed parts for 1x1 round tiles, with single colour printing.

We have seen way more than that. We have seen that every Lego set that has prints has them in bags with other parts. So they have the ability to print, on different parts that are in different colors, and then get them into one bag. We have also established that once parts are in bags, the storage problem is moot. They just store the entire bag. So, Lego has already figured out the problem of printing different parts in different colors and storing them in bags as a single trackable unit.

What I'm saying is, they can print more parts than they do now to replace stickers, then do that same trick, and put all printed parts in one bag, to address the problem of having to track multiple printed parts. It's the exact same thing they do now -- we've all seen the smaller bags within numbered bags -- but targeted to only printed parts.

25 minutes ago, MAB said:

The logistical problem there is not storage but the printing.

I also note that the goalposts have moved. Everyone pretended there was a logistical problem of storage, then when that was debunked, we pivot to the next made up problem. Okay but they already print whatever parts they want. So I'm not buying it.

 

It really just comes down to "does Lego want to cheap out or not." The logistical problems are solved.

Edited May 15, 2023 by danth

[MAB]

14 hours ago, danth said:

We have seen way more than that. We have seen that every Lego set that has prints has them in bags with other parts. So they have the ability to print, on different parts that are in different colors, and then get them into one bag. We have also established that once parts are in bags, the storage problem is moot. They just store the entire bag. So, Lego has already figured out the problem of printing different parts in different colors and storing them in bags as a single trackable unit.

What I'm saying is, they can print more parts than they do now to replace stickers, then do that same trick, and put all printed parts in one bag, to address the problem of having to track multiple printed parts. It's the exact same thing they do now -- we've all seen the smaller bags within numbered bags -- but targeted to only printed parts.

Those small bags are often common parts that would get stuck inside larger parts and would have been produced and stored, then bagged when necessary. The same with the bags with printed parts in, they are parts with individual item numbers, produced, stored and bagged when necessary.  That appears to be different to the DOTS letters, and the small single colour item bags like in Friends, superheroes,  Star Wars, and so on which appear to be produced and bagged as a single item.

If LEGO could print all decorated parts instead of using stickers at a similar cost, I reckon they would. That they don't suggests that they cannot cope with the capacity, whether it is storage, printing issues (availability of jigs, downtime between part shapes and calibration time, etc), or the cost differential is large enough that the product becomes not viable at the profit margins they want.  If you don't buy the arguments, you don't buy them. It is then your choice to buy the sets or not. The sales volumes over recent years suggest most buyers are not bothered by stickers enough to not buy LEGO,  even if they prefer printed parts. 

 

[ukbajadave]

I have printed parts from my youth in the 80s that still look OK today. I have stickered parts from building with my child in the 2000s that are cracked and flaked. Thats why I don't put stickers on any of my technic sets.

I have 6 models built for display and only 1 (10300) was supplied with stickers. I obtained printed replacements before I even started building as I wanted it to stay looking good.

Not official but also printed!

[danth]

8 hours ago, MAB said:

or the cost differential is large enough that the product becomes not viable at the profit margins they want. 

This is what I think it boils down to, although "viable" is probably not the right word. They make so much money that printing is very much viable. I would call their unwillingness to do more prints as avarice.

8 hours ago, MAB said:

The sales volumes over recent years suggest most buyers are not bothered by stickers enough to not buy LEGO,  even if they prefer printed parts.  

You can say that about literally any company with regard to any complaint. "They are still in business so they must make enough money despite X complaint". That works right up until it doesn't. Lego almost went out of business once and it can happen again.

I mean did you really just do that? Go on a fan website to tell fans who buy and love Lego that Lego shouldn't make the one improvement that many people seem to want, because Lego makes enough money to tell them to F off? That's unreal.

Why are you even on a fan website if that's your attitude towards fans?

You seem to be here to offer excuses and platitudes that both disintegrate upon scrutiny. We've heard them before and they're not new or convincing, just irritating at this point.

Maybe you should go start another thread to talk with all the people who aren't bothered by stickers?

Edited May 16, 2023 by danth

[Ondra]

I just recently saw pacman sets, for 270 euro there is only acceptable zero stickers...

But lego went full bonkers and packed set with amazing amount of big stickers...

Thanks for nothing lego...

[Ondra]

Amazing how in 2023 they cannot make stickers in same shade as brick.

 

I dont remember this problems even 15 years ago.

Some cars in speed champions looks funky with this problem.

[danth]

10 hours ago, Ondra said:

Amazing how in 2023 they cannot make stickers in same shade as brick. 

 

I dont remember this problems even 15 years ago.

Some cars in speed champions looks funky with this problem.

Yeah. Well they can't even get their bricks to be the same shade as each other. 🤣

Now in good news, how about this for an awesome print?

(Image stolen from Reddit)

[Ondra]

1 hour ago, danth said:

Yeah. Well they can't even get their bricks to be the same shade as each other. 🤣

Now in good news, how about this for an awesome print?

(Image stolen from Reddit)

I really hope there is market for 6:1 scale figures and we see more of this.

[danth]

Danth's list of great sets with no stickers:

• 10497 Galaxy Explorer (Tons of Classic Space prints!)
• 40567 Forest Hideout
• 10305 Lion Knights' Castle (Lots of printed shields)
• 31120-1 Medieval Castle
• 76254 Baby Rocket's Ship
• 31109-1 Pirate Ship
• 71800 Nya’s Water Dragon EVO
• 75300-1 Imperial TIE Fighter
• 40649 Upscaled Lego Minifigure (Cool GIANT face print)
• 60354-1 Mars Spacecraft Exploration Missions (Lots of Mars Space prints!)
• 60323-1 Stunt Plane (Cool tail fin print)
• 60383-1 Electric Sports Car (Lots of prints!)
• 60393-1 4x4 Fire Truck Rescue
• 60322-1 Race Car (Multiple printed CURVED SLOPES, and 2 minifigs for $10!!!)
• 60396 Modified Race Cars (trans green & trans pink windscreens)
• 60395 Combo Race Pack (awesome clean designs, cool modular gimmick)

The above list is not exhaustive, but a list of sets I have recently bought/built, and very much like for multiple reasons, only one of which is the lack of stickers. I've added parenthetical info if there happen to be any prints of note.

Sets nominated by others:

• 75347 TIE Bomber (Johnny1360)
• 75348 Mandalorian Fang Fighter vs TIE Interceptor (Johnny1360)
• 10297-1 Boutique Hotel (Lion King)
• 10278-1 Police Station (Lion King)

The sets in the above list will hopefully move to my list if/when I buy the sets!

Edited September 7, 2023 by danth

[Johnny1360]

I like the idea of having a list of sticker free sets, with prints exclusively. Two recent sets I've built that fit the bill.

75347 TIE Bomber 625pcs

75348 Mandalorian Fang Fighter vs TIE Interceptor 957pcs

Both really good builds with decent printed pieces. 

One thing that drives me crazy with stickers, not that it happens often, mostly with the round stickers is when the print isn't perfectly centered on the vinyl, it just makes it that much harder to correctly install on the part.

Edited June 28, 2023 by Johnny1360
Spelling

[Alexandrina]

I was building some of the Indiana Jones set Escape from the Lost Tomb last night and couldn't help but think, this set would have benefitted from a particular piece being printed. The bricks with hieroglyphics on are cool and very useful for MOCs, but because they're stickers it's very hard to come by a large amount. You would have to either buy multiple sets or multiple sticker sheets. On the other hand, if there had been one printed brick (maybe with different patterns on each side) it would be easily possible to acquire more via PaB, making Ancient Egyptian MOCs stronger.