Now part 3.

Let's say the "too many boxes" argument was true. Okay. So why not just put all the printed parts for a set in one bag and treat it as one trackable part?

Wow. Bam. Problem fixed. Funny that all the Lego engineers and excuse makers couldn't think of that.

Oh, what? It's not that simple? It can't be done? Are the Real Engineers going to tell me that I just don't understand the logistics involved and "if it was that easy Lego would have already done it?"

Well, yeah, Lego has already done it.

Reveal hidden contents

There it is. Lego part 77486. Multiple printed parts. In one bag. Tracked as one piece.

So? What are the excuses now?

"But but but those are all tiles! You can't put parts in the same bag if they're not tiles!" Why? Lego already puts different shaped parts into the same bag.

"But but but that would ruin the numbered-bags build experience. All parts must in the correct numbered bag for the build!" Why? You already have loose parts that aren't in any bag. And you already have to put on stickers that aren't in the right bag, stickers are on a separate sticker sheet. So why can't prints be in a separate print bag?

I know, I know, if it were that easy for Lego to put different shaped parts in the same bag, and have you pull from that separate bag while building instead of the correct numbered bag, they would have already done it.

Well, again, Lego has already done it.

Reveal hidden contents

Spiderman web effects, bagged as one piece. 36083. Different shapes. Pulled from while building differently numbered bags.

So, excuse makers, what are the excuses now?

Edited April 16, 20231 yr by danth

With your example of the web effects (same as the Hidden Side ectoplasm squirts) there's the fact that none of the parts treated as one are ever packaged separately. Much like the old tools on a sprue, you get the whole set even if only one of the parts was needed. Presumably, therefore, the whole bag is treated as one part internally from start to finish. When it comes to printed/stickered parts, the same doesn't hold true. Stickers (which would be replaced by prints in your idea) are usually placed over common bricks or parts; often, those selfsame bricks are used in the same set unstickered. The two circumstances, therefore, aren't exactly one and the same. It isn't going to save any boxes relative to having a sticker sheet, because the component parts are used elsewhere too. Just as a curiosity, I looked up the inventory of a random 2022 set (60316 Police Station). Assuming Bricklink is accurate, that set's stickered parts used nine boxes (plus a tenth for the sticker sheet). If you were to instead put all those parts as printed parts in a single box, all that does is replace the sticker sheet box; all the unprinted parts still need to be made.

However, it adds an extra step in the production process. Those parts need to be gathered together from among the boxes of unprinted parts, printed, then put in their box. Compare that to your examples of several prints on the same part, or several parts that are only ever stored as a single part, and it's more work for no saving on space. As long as Lego's customers are happily buying the stickered sets, it's not going to be worth the hassle to implement your suggestion.

  On 4/16/2023 at 9:33 PM, Alexandrina said:

With your example of the web effects (same as the Hidden Side ectoplasm squirts) there's the fact that none of the parts treated as one are ever packaged separately. Much like the old tools on a sprue, you get the whole set even if only one of the parts was needed. Presumably, therefore, the whole bag is treated as one part internally from start to finish. When it comes to printed/stickered parts, the same doesn't hold true. Stickers (which would be replaced by prints in your idea) are usually placed over common bricks or parts; often, those selfsame bricks are used in the same set unstickered. The two circumstances, therefore, aren't exactly one and the same. It isn't going to save any boxes relative to having a sticker sheet, because the component parts are used elsewhere too. Just as a curiosity, I looked up the inventory of a random 2022 set (60316 Police Station). Assuming Bricklink is accurate, that set's stickered parts used nine boxes (plus a tenth for the sticker sheet). If you were to instead put all those parts as printed parts in a single box, all that does is replace the sticker sheet box; all the unprinted parts still need to be made.

That's literally the entire goal: have prints without requiring more boxes.

And most of the time, at least a good chunk of the stickered parts in a set aren't used without stickers. I just built Porsche 963 and I would say most of the stickered parts are not used without stickers.

  On 4/16/2023 at 9:33 PM, Alexandrina said:

However, it adds an extra step in the production process. Those parts need to be gathered together from among the boxes of unprinted parts, printed, then put in their box. Compare that to your examples of several prints on the same part, or several parts that are only ever stored as a single part, and it's more work for no saving on space.

You know they already do that right? Almost every set you buy now (unless they're very small) will have bags inside the large numbered bags. What they're doing is exactly what I'm suggesting. Putting parts into bags to save boxes. I'm just saying do it for prints, if that's the real reason Lego cheaps out and does stickers, which it probably isn't anyway. EDIT: To be honest I'm not sure exactly what you were trying to say but hopefully my reply is addressing what you meant.

  On 4/16/2023 at 9:33 PM, Alexandrina said:

As long as Lego's customers are happily buying the stickered sets, it's not going to be worth the hassle to implement your suggestion. 

Except people aren't happily buying stickered sets. People hate stickers.

Edited April 17, 20231 yr by danth

  On 4/16/2023 at 10:12 PM, danth said:

Except people aren't happily buying stickered sets. People hate stickers.

The point is that for all people grumble about stickers, those sets are still selling. Lego are making money off the sets with stickers - the anti-sticker sentiment online isn't translating into sets with stickers not selling. As long as those sets continue to sell, it's tacit endorsement of stickers.

  On 4/16/2023 at 10:12 PM, danth said:

Except people aren't happily buying stickered sets. People hate stickers.

People preferring prints is not the same as people hating stickers.

People are buying sets with stickers. They might prefer prints, but they are still buying sets with stickers. And that sends the message to LEGO that they don't mind them all that much.

 

 

Don't think Lego doesn't have people reading online comments and seeing that stickers is like THE MAIN complaint people even have with Lego sets.

There are many sets that don't have stickers because Lego knows they would piss people off. Like most of the Icons sets and many sets geared towards adults with higher price points.

I can personally say stickers are the main reason I haven't been buying sets I otherwise liked since they started putting them all over sets. I have put up with a few stickered sets lately though.

  On 4/16/2023 at 10:16 PM, Alexandrina said:

The point is that for all people grumble about stickers, those sets are still selling. Lego are making money off the sets with stickers - the anti-sticker sentiment online isn't translating into sets with stickers not selling. As long as those sets continue to sell, it's tacit endorsement of stickers.

The sets still sell because the stickered version is the only one available. It's not like LEGO is making sets in two versions--stickers or prints--and letting the market decide. We don't have a completely free choice here. Any given set either uses stickers or doesn't, and if it does, the choice is between accepting stickers and skipping the set altogether. That most of us don't hate stickers enough to avoid every (otherwise delightful and beautiful) set that uses them doesn't constitute an endorsement of stickers per se...although you're probably correct that LEGO will interpret it that way, since they have other incentives to produce stickers rather than prints.

  On 4/17/2023 at 5:49 PM, Karalora said:

We don't have a completely free choice here. Any given set either uses stickers or doesn't, and if it does, the choice is between accepting stickers and skipping the set altogether. That most of us don't hate stickers enough to avoid every (otherwise delightful and beautiful) set that uses them doesn't constitute an endorsement of stickers per se

True, so true.

As said before: It is us. If the number representing "we" or "us" buying sets with stickers is much larger than "many people" complaining about AND not buying sets with stickers, then why should TLG's marketing folks change any strategy regarding dead cheap stickers? For the love of the customers? Heck no - not when a multi-billion dollar company is raking money at a level, TLG does. As long as "we" are buying sets with stickers - to the extent that not a single red light, not even a yellow one, lights up in TLG's marketing cockpit, they'll continue to do exactly that: Put in sticker sheets. It appears as if all lamps labelled "set w/ st." are bright green. As judged from the market analyses, TLG runs for sure over and over again.

I bet if it were the other way around, stickers would disappear in no time. But it isn't.

Best,
Thorsten

  On 4/17/2023 at 5:12 PM, danth said:

There are many sets that don't have stickers because Lego knows they would piss people off. Like most of the Icons sets and many sets geared towards adults with higher price points.

 

  On 4/17/2023 at 5:49 PM, Karalora said:

The sets still sell because the stickered version is the only one available. It's not like LEGO is making sets in two versions--stickers or prints--and letting the market decide. We don't have a completely free choice here.

While we don't have completely free choice, we have lots of choice. We have just heard that there are many sets that don't have stickers. So those that hate them so much can choose from those sets, whereas other people that don't mind them so much (especially if stickers mean the cost is lower) can choose from a wider range.

  On 4/17/2023 at 6:52 PM, MAB said:

While we don't have completely free choice, we have lots of choice. We have just heard that there are many sets that don't have stickers. So those that hate them so much can choose from those sets, whereas other people that don't mind them so much (especially if stickers mean the cost is lower) can choose from a wider range.

What are you trying to say here, exactly? Because it comes across like you're trying to invalidate the opinions of people who dislike stickers by implying that if we really disliked them, we'd only buy sets without them. Which is utter nonsense, for reasons that have already been discussed.

  On 4/17/2023 at 10:43 PM, Karalora said:

What are you trying to say here, exactly? Because it comes across like you're trying to invalidate the opinions of people who dislike stickers by implying that if we really disliked them, we'd only buy sets without them. Which is utter nonsense, for reasons that have already been discussed.

I'm saying that not everyone hates stickers so much that they won't buy sets with stickers. Even if people prefer prints to stickers, for many people stickers are not a deal breaker. For those that do hate them to an extreme, there are sets they can buy that are sticker free. Why should LEGO make every set sticker free, when people don't care about it that much? Those that do hate them to an extreme have a series of sets to buy from. However, by putting stickers in other sets (which I assume is to keep costs down) they are also creating sets that are more affordable for those that really don't care either way. If they do away with stickers, then set prices will presumincrease hitting the purchasing behaviour of people that didn't really care about going to prints only.

I just build new marvel quinjet and put on all stickers, after day of reconsideration i get them of because they feel artificial on that model. It's hard to say, but lego stickers are very cheap by material. By look and feel.

I only buy speed champions if model works without stickers.

Back in days without licensing limiting them into everything, basic printed bricks and specialized tiles used as vents were definitely better. And were parts of charm.

I still cannot understand, why some sets lego ex creator expert are fully printed even with huge tiles and others not even for higher price.

  On 4/18/2023 at 7:08 AM, MAB said:

I'm saying that not everyone hates stickers so much that they won't buy sets with stickers. Even if people prefer prints to stickers, for many people stickers are not a deal breaker. For those that do hate them to an extreme, there are sets they can buy that are sticker free. Why should LEGO make every set sticker free, when people don't care about it that much? Those that do hate them to an extreme have a series of sets to buy from. However, by putting stickers in other sets (which I assume is to keep costs down) they are also creating sets that are more affordable for those that really don't care either way. If they do away with stickers, then set prices will presumincrease hitting the purchasing behaviour of people that didn't really care about going to prints only.

I don't think anyone was saying that stickers are so hated that the only viable business move for LEGO would be to stop using them and go to all prints. At most, we were saying that we dislike them and wish we had the option to get the sets we like with prints instead, even at a higher price point. This is a thread for venting about how annoying stickers are. And honestly? Most of the time? It's not that big a deal. An "ugh" moment while building, and then I'm over it--the sticker is on the piece, and I never have to worry about it again. Worst-case scenario, I fumble the application badly enough that I need to order a replacement sticker sheet. (Hey, here's a thought, TLG...include extra stickers in sets that use them. They're cheap to produce, right?)

But I would still rather not have to take that step. I would rather the part have its design pre-printed. And that's what this thread is for--explaining the many reasons why most of us prefer prints to stickers.

  On 4/16/2023 at 10:12 PM, danth said:

Except people aren't happily buying stickered sets. People hate stickers.

 

  On 4/17/2023 at 5:38 PM, danth said:

I can personally say stickers are the main reason I haven't been buying sets I otherwise liked since they started putting them all over sets.

  On 4/18/2023 at 1:36 PM, Karalora said:

I don't think anyone was saying that stickers are so hated that the only viable business move for LEGO would be to stop using them and go to all prints. At most, we were saying that we dislike them and wish we had the option to get the sets we like with prints instead, even at a higher price point. This is a thread for venting about how annoying stickers are. And honestly? Most of the time? It's not that big a deal. An "ugh" moment while building, and then I'm over it--the sticker is on the piece, and I never have to worry about it again. Worst-case scenario, I fumble the application badly enough that I need to order a replacement sticker sheet. (Hey, here's a thought, TLG...include extra stickers in sets that use them. They're cheap to produce, right?)

But I would still rather not have to take that step. I would rather the part have its design pre-printed. And that's what this thread is for--explaining the many reasons why most of us prefer prints to stickers.

Clearly the thread means different things to different people. Preferring prints to stickers is not the same as hating stickers.Yet there are posts saying exactly that.

I prefer prints to stickers, but not if there is a significant cost difference. That could lead to more expensive sets or loss of decoration (so maybe just 1/5th of the decorated parts in a set, but all printed instead of stickered) or repeated use of the same printed parts over and over even if they are not quite right instead of unique decorations via stickers.

 

Okay, fine, some people (including OP) passionately despise stickers to the point where it is affecting their buying habits. But what is the point of coming into a thread for venting about stickers just to say "Sucks to be you, they're never going away"?

  On 4/18/2023 at 7:08 AM, MAB said:

I'm saying that not everyone hates stickers so much that they won't buy sets with stickers. Even if people prefer prints to stickers, for many people stickers are not a deal breaker. For those that do hate them to an extreme, there are sets they can buy that are sticker free. Why should LEGO make every set sticker free, when people don't care about it that much?

MAB, it sounds like you need to go make your own thread to discuss this. You keep trying to make this thread about preference vs cost which is not why I, the OP, created this thread.

Personally, I don't think companies should cheapen their products exactly to the point where customers still begrudgingly buy them. I think Lego should make every set a home run that fans LOVE, and the only way to do that is with prints.

  On 4/18/2023 at 2:14 PM, MAB said:

Clearly the thread means different things to different people.

Clearly not dude, come on. Look at the name of the thread. Now you're just being disingenuous. This is not the place to talk about a slight preference for prints based on cost.

InOCeNt SaFArI veHIcLe MERDERED bY StICKeRz!!

Look at this beautiful safari truck! Lego set 6672.

It has everything! Besides the cool camera, suspension, and monkey piece, you get two, beautiful, non-wrinkly, non-linty, non-bubbly PRINTED DOORS with ZEBRA STRIPES. These printed pieces can be used, literally, in ANY LEGO MOC you could want to build. Just stick em on!

But there's more!

That's right. A fully printed ZEBRA tile on the hood! Another infinitely reusable piece with a design that won't crack and peel with age!

Recently, this set was totally re-imagined in --

OH MY GOD...THE HORROR! THE CARNAGE! THE HUMANITY!

Kragel! Kragel everywhere!

The hood: stickers! The doors: kragel-paper! The roof: decomposing lint traps!

What kind of sociopath would brutally dismember this poor, beautiful safari truck this way? Has Lego gone mad? There's not a special single piece in that set, no prize in the box, no gems to justify buying this set as something other than a bucket of boring parts.

"But you see, Danth, there is a poor, poor child. A child out there, that needs those plain white tiles for a MOC. Yes, a MOC! And without those plain tiles, the child will die. Because you can't get white tiles in ANY OTHER SET."

Aha! The murder was for good! The good of the child, you see! Lego works in mysterious ways, like a divine god, she taketh but also giveth. It is not for us mortals to understand, but to consume.

~ FIN ~

Okay that was fun.

What other sets were MeRdErrD by stickers? Sets that would have been AWESOME, but the stickers just ruined them?

Edited April 18, 20231 yr by danth

  On 4/18/2023 at 4:51 PM, danth said:

InOCeNt SaFArI veHIcLe MERDERED bY StICKeRz!!

Look at this beautiful safari truck! Lego set 6672.

It has everything! Besides the cool camera, suspension, and monkey piece, you get two, beautiful, non-wrinkly, non-linty, non-bubbly PRINTED DOORS with ZEBRA STRIPES. These printed pieces can be used, literally, in ANY LEGO MOC you could want to build. Just stick em on!

But there's more!

That's right. A fully printed ZEBRA tile on the hood! Another infinitely reusable piece with a design that won't crack and peel with age!

Recently, this set was totally re-imagined in --

OH MY GOD...THE HORROR! THE CARNAGE! THE HUMANITY!

Kragel! Kragel everywhere!

The hood: stickers! The doors: kragel-paper! The roof: decomposing lint traps!

What kind of sociopath would brutally dismember this poor, beautiful safari truck this way? Has Lego gone mad? There's not a special single piece in that set, no prize in the box, no gems to justify buying this set as something other than a bucket of boring parts.

"But you see, Danth, there is a poor, poor child. A child out there, that needs those plain white tiles for a MOC. Yes, a MOC! And without those plain tiles, the child will die. Because you can't get white tiles in ANY OTHER SET."

Aha! The murder was for good! The good of the child, you see! Lego works in mysterious ways, like a divine god, she taketh but also giveth. It is not for us mortals to understand, but to consume.

~ FIN ~

Okay that was fun.

What other sets were MeRdErrD by stickers? Sets that would have been AWESOME, but the stickers just ruined them?

This kinda reminds me Jurassic Explorers from T Rex Breakout. This set and these SUV could be fabulous, but was murdered by stickers. There are even two small stickers for T Rex eyes. Imagine did some mistake and I would say whole t rex is ruined.

 

For me every set, and these pricier one especially, when stickers could be easily avoidable are murdered.

 

Im still baffled how cobi has everything printed since 2022. Yeah, other hand they have a lot missing pieces. Everything has two side...

I never had once in my life missing brick from lego, only advent calendar has doubled one bag and missing another. Which was win after all.

  On 4/18/2023 at 7:14 PM, Ondra said:

There are even two small stickers for T Rex eyes.

Ew! WTF?

Yeah that set would have been really nice with prints.

I think people really understimate how valued printed pieces are. I've bought sets I don't even care about because of how nice the prints are. Like Captain America Mech Armor. I don't care about Marvel at all but that shield print is awesome!

I mean, go look at prices for printed parts. Especially retired parts. Then tell me how much people don't really care about prints. They are, literally, more highly valued than stickers, in real money.

Edited April 18, 20231 yr by danth

Holy moly @danth, that poor safari truck...that is just unconscionable. I would hope that even the sticker apologists can agree, that is taking the practice way too far. I find it acceptable (if mildly to moderately annoying) to use stickers to add minor unique surface designs to a small area of a model. There are ELEVEN zebra-patterned stickers on that sheet (plus one non-zebra sticker), covering a sizable proportion of the truck's exterior surface. If the zebra pattern is that important to the look of the model, LEGO should have just bitten the bullet and produced parts with a zebra print.

  On 4/18/2023 at 4:51 PM, danth said:

"But you see, Danth, there is a poor, poor child. A child out there, that needs those plain white tiles for a MOC. Yes, a MOC! And without those plain tiles, the child will die. Because you can't get white tiles in ANY OTHER SET."

See, this to me is too flippant in the opposite direction. When you're not well-off, sometimes you can't afford to get another set. Sometimes you get a set as a gift and don't get a say in what set that is. I can say from experience that it made no difference to me if a part was available in fifty sets I didn't have; I'd be getting maybe half a dozen sets for birthday and Christmas combined (if it was a particularly lucky year) and could afford to save up for one more, so I was forever leaving stickers off sets so I could use the parts again.

  On 4/18/2023 at 8:37 PM, Karalora said:

If the zebra pattern is that important to the look of the model, LEGO should have just bitten the bullet and produced parts with a zebra print.

I would actually go so far as to say that those sorts of sets are exactly the ones that should have stickers. The zebra pattern isn't important to the look of the model. I bought that set, built it without stickers, looked at it for a bit, then put the stickers on. It looks cool either way.

Anyway, I'm personally inclined to think that the best case scenario would be Lego switching to printed parts only but reducing the detail on some of their licensed sets. Prints are nice, but some details are so specific that you'd basically never have use for them in anything other than the original model. I'm thinking of things like the X-Wing Fighter from Star Wars. My version as a child was 6212, which has no stickers and three different prints excluding minifigures. Those prints include a red and white striped tile which is very general purpose. Compare that to the more recent 75301 which has eleven stickers (plus a printed piece). Personally I'd rather see fewer prints and only the essentials; a lot of the stickers on 75301 are detail for detail's sake, and the model is no less for not having the decoration at all.

  On 4/18/2023 at 9:29 PM, Alexandrina said:

See, this to me is too flippant in the opposite direction.

It's a white tile...

  On 4/18/2023 at 9:29 PM, Alexandrina said:

The zebra pattern isn't important to the look of the model.

What. WHAT?

Are you even being serious anymore? The Zebra stripes are the only thing that makes that set interesting. It's the defining feature of the set. Otherwise it's a boring white SUV.

  On 4/18/2023 at 9:29 PM, Alexandrina said:

Anyway, I'm personally inclined to think that the best case scenario would be Lego switching to printed parts only but reducing the detail on some of their licensed sets. Prints are nice, but some details are so specific that you'd basically never have use for them in anything other than the original model. I'm thinking of things like the X-Wing Fighter from Star Wars. My version as a child was 6212, which has no stickers and three different prints excluding minifigures. Those prints include a red and white striped tile which is very general purpose. Compare that to the more recent 75301 which has eleven stickers (plus a printed piece). Personally I'd rather see fewer prints and only the essentials; a lot of the stickers on 75301 are detail for detail's sake, and the model is no less for not having the decoration at all.

I think I agree with this. Hell, if half of the decorations were prints, and the more model specific decorations were stickers, it's be 10x better than what we have now.

  On 4/18/2023 at 9:35 PM, danth said:

Are you even being serious anymore? The Zebra stripes are the only thing that makes that set interesting. It's the defining feature of the set. Otherwise it's a boring white SUV.

For me the defining feature of the set was the lioness. That's what I bought it for, the vehicle is just there. And it's not like there's hundreds of white SUVs on the market at any given time anyway.

  On 4/18/2023 at 9:29 PM, Alexandrina said:

The zebra pattern isn't important to the look of the model.

LEGO seems to think so. Otherwise they wouldn't have included enough zebra stickers to cover a good 25-30% of it. And yes, I know the intended build is just one possibility and that's the beauty of this hobby, but we're talking about LEGO's production decisions here. If they want to sell a model that's intended to be covered in stripes, they should have the decency to make striped parts.