2023 Majisto GWP

[danth]

2 hours ago, SpacePolice89 said:

I understand your point of view and agree that the parts usage is far from ideal but somehow when I see it I just like the set, I know I'm in the minority regarding opinions about this set but somehow it speaks to me.  

I'm glad you like it! It's not bad, I just think it will inevitably disappoint people who wanted the minifigs to be closer to the original set.

1 hour ago, Aanchir said:

I get where you're coming from but I wholeheartedly disagree. I think they're just as valuable to have as other large structural frames and panels.

Yeah I have no issues using BURPs instead of building up artisan rock faces. Rock builds are boring to me anyway, and are usually under the more interesting stuff (like castles) that I'd rather spend my time on.

8 minutes ago, Black Falcon said:

It looks nothing like the original and is just to far away from it.

Right, I probably wasn't clear. I meant they should have done an original GWP that wasn't supposed to look like anything.

Edited November 3, 2023 by danth

[R0Sch]

After little over 30 min. almost done and already 220 pieces spent without any interior whatsoever. This is a very basic and simple model with a boring symmetrical build. The jumper plate with the keyhole tile is the only part holding the two halves from hinging open.

[Black Falcon]

9 minutes ago, danth said:

Right, I probably wasn't clear. I meant they should have done an original GWP that wasn't supposed to look like anything.

Depending on what it would have looked like I wouldn´t have anything against it. However, looking on the past Pirate GWP, there were a lot complains about that one, because people would have rather wished for a remake like the Blacktron cruiser or the Forestmen Hideout. 

[The Reader]

6 minutes ago, R0Sch said:

After little over 30 min. almost done and already 220 pieces spent without any interior whatsoever. This is a very basic and simple model with a boring symmetrical build. The jumper plate with the keyhole tile is the only part holding the two halves from hinging open.

Great! I like it.

[Aanchir]

37 minutes ago, R0Sch said:

After little over 30 min. almost done and already 220 pieces spent without any interior whatsoever. This is a very basic and simple model with a boring symmetrical build. The jumper plate with the keyhole tile is the only part holding the two halves from hinging open.

great start! a few small corrections based on the pics I've seen:

• the 1x2 plates above the windows and the ones below the 1x8x2 Dark Stone Grey arches should be 1x2 round plates (35480) like the ones used for the door.
• I don't think the back and front walls are supposed to quite match — the back wall definitely has inverted half-arches pointing out towards the sides, but not ones pointing in towards the center.
• On a related note, the plates between the 1x8x2 Dark Stone Grey arches and these inverted half-arches are Reddish Brown 1x1 plates with clip (4085d) rather than black 1x2 round plates like in the front.
• Don't forget the chimney! It's actually taller in this model than in the original set (it used to be that the top of the 1x1x5 brick used for the chimney was level with the 1x8x2 arches, but on the new set it rises 5 plates higher). I'm wondering whether the added height might be to allow for a second-story fireplace in place of the sconce/torch from the original model. In any case, just as in the original set, it is positioned one stud behind and one stud to the right of the left rear 1x8x2 arch.

I also have doubts about the use of 4x8 wedge plates above the 4x8 parapet bricks — my current guess is that it instead uses 2x2 triangular tiles so that it doesn't cut into the second-level "floor space" — but as of yet it's impossible to verify what the correct parts are since all the pics so far have this thin layer of parts hidden behind the leaves growing in the front. Hoping we'll get more pics soon to lay some of thoe uncertainties to rest!

57 minutes ago, danth said:

Right, I probably wasn't clear. I meant they should have done an original GWP that wasn't supposed to look like anything.

Honestly, I appreciate that they did a Majisto's Magical Workshop remake since it was such a significant set from my childhood! Whereas how excited I'd be for an original Castle model in its place would depend heavily on the execution, and on whether the subject matter offers something that complements my current medieval sets or something that those sets already include in some capacity like a jail or blacksmith shop. But obviously that's personal preference on my part, since I realize a lot of y'all have more extensive frustrations about the ways it deviates from the original, and not everybody is quite as drawn to it on account of it re-imagining this one specific model design.

[SpacePolice89]

1 hour ago, danth said:

I'm glad you like it! It's not bad, I just think it will inevitably disappoint people who wanted the minifigs to be closer to the original set.

I agree about the minifigures. They should've been much closer to the original ones, especially the knight's helmet and Majisto's torso.

[RichardGoring]

BURPs are Beautiful Useful Rock Pieces, right?

[The Reader]

25 minutes ago, RichardGoring said:

BURPs are Beautiful Useful Rock Pieces, right?

[R0Sch]

Something like this. 338/365 pcs. Interior taken from 6048. Unlike the old set here the roofs have balcony 2 wide openings (skylights).

[RichardGoring]

That looks good. It makes me wish the roof was eight or ten-wide to cover more of the structure, but still fold out.

Good ground floor interior space, but not much up top, which is a shame. An extra stud of depth would be really useful.

Great job on building it!

[R0Sch]

I just stumbled on this awesome MOC. It's a perfect reimagining and shows that you CAN make a small build with plenty interior space without the use of BURP's. Too bad LEGO never heard of Reddit. :(

 

[MAB]

30 minutes ago, R0Sch said:

I just stumbled on this awesome MOC. It's a perfect reimagining and shows that you CAN make a small build with plenty interior space without the use of BURP's. Too bad LEGO never heard of Reddit. :(

Do you really think LEGO designers cannot make sets without using BURPs? The original set used BURPs, so it makes sense the remake does too, given they are still in production.

That MOC is nice, but it has over 830 parts. To bring that number down to a level suitable for a GWP means a building half the size. You are then not comparing like with like.

[Black Falcon]

1 hour ago, MAB said:

That MOC is nice, but it has over 830 parts. To bring that number down to a level suitable for a GWP means a building half the size. You are then not comparing like with like.

Exactly this. I mean it looks good and all, besides the roof seems a bit to massive to me compared to the rest of the building. But with Majisto already beeing a quite big GWP and that one needing even more parts, it is just not GWP size anymore.

The BURP piece has three major advantage in the GWP:

• it was used in the original Set and so it helps keeping the flair of the original one
• you can build a great part of the model using just a one part instead of several bricks
• you have more space inside because it doesn´t use as much space as you would with normal parts

2 hours ago, R0Sch said:

I just stumbled on this awesome MOC. It's a perfect reimagining and shows that you CAN make a small build with plenty interior space without the use of BURP's.

Noone said you couldn´t. But in fact the normal bricks do need more space so the model needs to be bigger. While the original and the GWP both are 12 studs wide, that moc needs two studs more for the base of the building. 

[Khargeust]

BURPs are a bit of the antithesis of LEGO's current approach to producing ever more small and diverse pieces in ever-increasing numbers of colors, something that tires me. BURPs are an integral part of what made LEGO's golden age and used in the right proportion, it's an essential piece. It is one of the rare persistence of the classic sets of the 90s, I love it.

[Alexandrina]

23 hours ago, R0Sch said:

P.P.S. This is how I imagined a remake would be done:

The MOC you linked is a cute looking build, for sure, but to me it's not really any better than the actual GWP at the job: namely, recreating the specific old set. The one you linked doesn't really feel like Majisto's Workshop (primarily because of the colour scheme) and also feels... MOCish? I don't really know what the term is, but it feels like one of those builds which are wonderful but also very clearly fan creations, rather than coming from Lego itself. The actual GWP definitely feels like a Lego set.

19 hours ago, Sir Dano said:

BURPs are awful and should be retired permanently outside of Juniors sets.

Au contraire, BURPs should be used far more often than they are. I have no idea why an entire bag in the Eldorado Fortress, for example, was dedicated to building some hollow rock passages that could have been boshed together in five minutes with some judicious BURP use, and freed up parts in the budget to fix the issues people had with the set.

I would actually go so far as to say that the part range would benefit from a fourth BURP, the width of the triangular one but of an even height like the rectangular one.

[Aanchir]

4 hours ago, R0Sch said:

I just stumbled on this awesome MOC. It's a perfect reimagining and shows that you CAN make a small build with plenty interior space without the use of BURP's. Too bad LEGO never heard of Reddit. :(

I mean, this is a fabulous MOC — certainly closer to the design philosophy of other recent "throwback" sets than the one you shared on the previous page, and I love how elaborately the builder furnished it!

But as others have mentioned, the piece count is enormous (the brick-built cliffs are surely a factor in this), and it deviates a lot more from the original set's design and proportions compared to sets like the Forest Hideout.

For example, the windows have been lowered from the upper floor to the ground floor, the window shutters and balcony below the windows have been removed entirely, the footprint of the building is two studs larger than the original in every direction, the black ridges on the roof are rotated 90 degrees from those in the original set, the weapons on the front have been raised up far higher relative to the roof, and brown parts are used about as extensively as black ones instead of as a subtler accent color. It also sticks to old-school arches for its tree branches, eschewing the more rounded and organic style of branches from the Forest Hideout and Lion Knights' Castle.

All in all, it's a very different sort of re-imagining of the original model than what the set designers were going for. That's hardly a mark against it as a MOC — and frankly, I could even imagine it as a retail set (although not a GWP) if LEGO had previously opted to take more of these sorts of liberties with the designs of their other throwback sets. But it's far from what I'd have expected this particular set to look like, in light of the precedent we've seen with other GWP sets.

[Ruthin Road]

8 hours ago, Black Falcon said:

The BURP piece has three major advantage in the GWP:

• it was used in the original Set and so it helps keeping the flair of the original one
• you can build a great part of the model using just a one part instead of several bricks
• you have more space inside because it doesn´t use as much space as you would with normal parts

I don't mind BURPs per se. As others have said, they are useful to build large areas of rock and landscape. However I am not especially sentimental about them and I think they are of most use in larger sets that would otherwise have significant amounts of repetitive building. In a set that consists of a small building, I would favour a more versatile brick-based approach that allows for more modifications.

While the BURPs may create more interior space, unfortunately that space can be more difficult to use because of the awkward interior shape and absence of connections. Obviously it is difficult to comment until we see pictures of the inside.

While I really like the concept and colour scheme of the original set, I do not think that the build itself necessarily had much in the way of flair. You can usually break down a set to key elements such as the steeply pitched red roof, the blue shutters, the green leaves, and the symmetrical opening. As long as the remake retained these elements and the approximate colour scheme and proportions, I think the set designers actually had a reasonable amount of room to manouevre to create something that improved on the original while keeping in budget. With the Forest Hideout and Blacktron Cruiser, I think Lego got this process pretty spot on. My initial impression is that the workshop is a bit lifeless in comparison.

Perhaps it's a bit like restoring an old building.If you keep everything that is old then the building can only be a museum piece rather than a living building. Remove too much and it loses what makes the building unique. You have to decide what to retain, what to restore, and what to remove, while not losing sight of the overall vision and remaining in budget.

[TeriXeri]

On 11/3/2023 at 11:07 PM, RichardGoring said:

BURPs are Beautiful Useful Rock Pieces, right?

Yeah, especially when used right, like here, to add some extra hollow space interior to an already quite small cave.

[jodawill]

You know, if we just ignore the minifigures, one of the things that bothers me the most about this set is the use of the blue plumes as a drop in replacement for the dragon plumes. That just shows how much the designer didn't understand the original set. They're not being used as plumes. The point is that they're dragons. It would have made a lot more sense to incorporate a dragon in some other way, like a brick built dragon head.

Whoever designed this has absolutely no taste.

[Black Falcon]

6 hours ago, jodawill said:

You know, if we just ignore the minifigures, one of the things that bothers me the most about this set is the use of the blue plumes as a drop in replacement for the dragon plumes. That just shows how much the designer didn't understand the original set. They're not being used as plumes. The point is that they're dragons. It would have made a lot more sense to incorporate a dragon in some other way, like a brick built dragon head.

A brick built dragon head would be way to big to even fit there (both visually and size wise), so I actually belive including the blume is the better option. They could have just skipped it though, but actually aside from beeing some dragon-decoration it also adds some colour to the build (and if you don´t like them you can just not add them).

[Sir Dano]

It's extra annoying because there are a whole bunch of dragon themed parts in Ninjago they could have used instead.

[jodawill]

6 hours ago, Black Falcon said:

A brick built dragon head would be way to big to even fit there (both visually and size wise), so I actually belive including the blume is the better option. They could have just skipped it though, but actually aside from beeing some dragon-decoration it also adds some colour to the build (and if you don´t like them you can just not add them).

Yeah, a brick built dragon would be too big to fit what they have here, but they could have done something that fits into the Dragon Masters theme instead of trying to covert this set from old parts into new ones one for one. It t just doesn't work. You can't (always) take an old set and just build it out of new parts.

Removing the plumes doesn't really do anything to improve the set. There's just so much that's wrong with this build, you'd have to throw out the entire thing and start from scratch. To be honest, I think this is probable the worst castle set they've ever made, even worse than the jelly bean knights.

I was really hyped for this set, especially after how great the Forest Hideout and Blacktron Cruiser GWPs were. The Blacktron Cruiser suffered a bit from the lack of printing and the trans red octagonal plates, but that wasn't the designer's fault. The designers really knocked both of those out of the park.

My mind keeps going back to that survey that asked if we would pay for a subscription to have the opportunity to buy redesigned sets. I was excited about that after Forest Hideout. If Majisto's Workshop is a sign of how much effort they would put into the sets in that subscription, it would just be an incredibly frustrating experience.

I think instead of bringing back old sets from random themes, they really need to focus on specific themes so they can afford to make new molds and prints. And they really need to hire designers who are passionate about Lego. You can tell that whoever designed this one didn't understand the theme and didn't care. It's just a day job.

The same goes for the box art and the promotional materials for Eldorado Fortress. Whoever wrote the descriptions for the online listing didn't take 5 minutes to research anything about the original set. Whoever designed the box for this Majisto set... I don't know what's going on there. The problem isn't that it isn't a throwback box. It just looks awful.

6 hours ago, Sir Dano said:

It's extra annoying because there are a whole bunch of dragon themed parts in Ninjago they could have used instead.

Yeah, but those are Chinese dragons. They don't really fit into the Dragon Masters universe.

Edited November 5, 2023 by jodawill
beam -> bean

[MAB]

12 hours ago, jodawill said:

You know, if we just ignore the minifigures, one of the things that bothers me the most about this set is the use of the blue plumes as a drop in replacement for the dragon plumes. That just shows how much the designer didn't understand the original set. They're not being used as plumes. The point is that they're dragons. It would have made a lot more sense to incorporate a dragon in some other way, like a brick built dragon head.

Whoever designed this has absolutely no taste.

 

56 minutes ago, jodawill said:

Yeah, a brick built dragon would be too big to fit what they have here, but they could have done something that fits into the Dragon Masters theme instead of trying to covert this set from old parts into new ones one for one. It t just doesn't work. You can't (always) take an old set and just build it out of new parts.

Removing the plumes doesn't really do anything to improve the set. There's just so much that's wrong with this build, you'd have to throw out the entire thing and start from scratch. To be honest, I think this is probable the worst castle set they've ever made, even worse than the jelly beam knights.

I was really hyped for this set, especially after how great the Forest Hideout and Blacktron Cruiser GWPs were. The Blacktron Cruiser suffered a bit from the lack of printing and the trans red octagonal plates, but that wasn't the designer's fault. The designers really knocked both of those out of the park.

Sure, it would look better if it had dragon plumes on the building. But they don't exist. Why does that mean the designer has no taste, or understand the original set? If those two plumes were replaced with the original dragon plumes, the new set would be close to perfect. I cannot see how the designer could have improved this design if those parts were not going to be reproduced. Including a brick built dragon would not have reproduced the small dragons any better than using plumes. A couple of blue clips to try to reproduce them at tge same scale would not look good. I haven't seen what is inside yet, maybe there is some homage in there. Whether there is or not, I'm sure there will be people that enjoy this set. Whereas people that think this GWP is the worst castle set ever made can just time their purchases to get a different GWP and not suffer by being forced to have something worse than the jelly bean knights in their collection.

 

[Lyichir]

5 hours ago, Sir Dano said:

It's extra annoying because there are a whole bunch of dragon themed parts in Ninjago they could have used instead.

The only similarly-sized option from Ninjago that comes to mind is the dragon hilt (36017), which is bigger, harder to incorporate, and doesn't come in the right color. Other dragon motif parts from Ninjago tend to be bigger and probably wouldn't work for this sort of small ornamentation.

[Black Falcon]

5 hours ago, Sir Dano said:

It's extra annoying because there are a whole bunch of dragon themed parts in Ninjago they could have used instead.

Most of the stuff in you could use as details are pearl gold, which would just not fit into that build at all.

1 hour ago, jodawill said:

To be honest, I think this is probable the worst castle set they've ever made, even worse than the jelly beam knights.

Uhm, which knights exactly are you reffering to here?

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I think instead of bringing back old sets from random themes, they really need to focus on specific themes so they can afford to make new molds and prints.

Well I wouldn´t have minded if they would have made another gwp of an existing faction. But I think they wanted to do something that is just very Iconic.

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And they really need to hire designers who are passionate about Lego. You can tell that whoever designed this one didn't understand the theme and didn't care. It's just a day job.

I can´t agree with that. To me the overall build looks good - I am not a big fan of the door though. I mean it makes sense to include but it looks just to little for a door. The biggest problem I have with the remake is actually the missing shield. I can live with them not having the helmet and the plume as it was clear we wouldn´t get that ones.

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Whoever designed the box for this Majisto set... I don't know what's going on there. The problem isn't that it isn't a throwback box. It just looks awful.

I really like that one. It is like an more modernized version of the original Boxart. I get that the set and the box both aren´t really your taste but you can never please everyone. However just because it doesn´t match your desires doesn´t mean the designers did a bad job. In the end they can´t influence the limitations they have.